Hatton being forced to fight M'bye!

MaxPow · Post by **MaxPow** » 16 Jan 2006, 09:23

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
MaxPow wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote: Well Vargas is completely shot to shit due to Thyroid and other problems, what will it prove if Mosley beats him? Mosley hasn't beaten an elite level fighter since DLH.
Not as much about whether he wins or loses but how he looks in the ring. How is his speed; his timing, is it still there, et cetera For all we know he still has a couple good performances. Think about where he was ranked about only two years ago, three years ago, four years ago... That wasn't too far back. Winky would make most people look aweful.

Besides, which elite level fighter has Gatti beat ever?
Four years ago is a bloody long time in boxing. Most people knew Mosley was going to get beaten into a cocked hat by Wright.

Mosley is little more than a name these days.

Still and will always be much more valid than Gatti anyway. Only been beaten by two fighters and quality ones at that. He's in no way at all the Mosley of 2000 or Mosley the lightweight but he's no tomato can.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Jan 2006, 09:30

He will look like one when he fights Mayweather.

MaxPow · Post by **MaxPow** » 16 Jan 2006, 09:37

jamesmcdonnell wrote:He will look like one when he fights Mayweather.

Agreed, but against Mayweather, so would a lot of quality fighters

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 16 Jan 2006, 11:46

MaxPow wrote:
yiddo14 wrote:mr fwank warren has a regular slot in a british sunday newspaper.and today he revealed he offered hatton the mayweather fight last year,and more suprisingly the cotto fight! hhmmmm.......interesting development.i could see rickys reluctance to fight mayweather last year,but cotto? whats all that about?
It turns out Hatton was the WBO mandatory at the time. And also according to Bob Arum, Miguel Cotto was willing to go over to England to have the match.

Corley was WBO champ when Hatton was mandatory: he passed on the shot and was removed from the WBO ratings as a result.
So Arum may be.....lying - what a shocker!!

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 16 Jan 2006, 13:11

MightyWarrior wrote:
MaxPow wrote:
yiddo14 wrote:mr fwank warren has a regular slot in a british sunday newspaper.and today he revealed he offered hatton the mayweather fight last year,and more suprisingly the cotto fight! hhmmmm.......interesting development.i could see rickys reluctance to fight mayweather last year,but cotto? whats all that about?
It turns out Hatton was the WBO mandatory at the time. And also according to Bob Arum, Miguel Cotto was willing to go over to England to have the match.
Corley was WBO champ when Hatton was mandatory: he passed on the shot and was removed from the WBO ratings as a result.
So Arum may be.....lying - what a shocker!!

Correct, Hatton passed up the chance at Corley which I was surprised about at the time as Warren appeared to be steering him down the WBO route.

G-man · Post by **G-man** » 16 Jan 2006, 13:16

MaxPow wrote:
yiddo14 wrote:maxpow- where do you nget your inside information from? u say that hatton has declined the mayweather fight on more than one occasion? u must have some decent connections in the fight game.in effect,you are saying hatton is ducking him.you say that hatton fighting tszyu has no bearing on his courage to fight mayweather,i for one cant see this.tszyu was recognised as undisputed 140lb champion,and was the most feared fighter in the division.you cannot compare mayweathers achievements at 140 to tszyus,not yet anyway.i think people are getting slightly carried away with pbf,i do not doubt the mans incredible skills and movement,but his last 3 fights have been total mismatches,could say hand picked.as for warren? well,he is acting like a big kid on this matter!it's embarrasing,he cant accept that hatton is moving on to bigger and better things(likely to sign with golden boy.p)allegedly allegedly allegedly is great selling out arenas in our country,but he doesnt like to venture across the pond,which is necessary as the US is where its all at in the fight game.hatton should vacate the titles rather than fight these 2 unknowns.
Inside information? Not at all, I've just been following the potential match-up very closely. Hatton's dad Ray also admits that they turned down offers to fight Mayweather in 2005. But that's all old news from last year. You might still be able to dig up some old articles about that on the net. I had a number of links on the topic but lost them in the ESB server crash.

Hatton is the 140 pound champ. Mayweather is the #1 contender at 140 pounds. If we were back in the days when there was only one title for each weight class, Hatton would have been stripped for not agreeing to fight Mayweather as soon as possible.

On Mayweather's "hand-picked" opponents: I wouldn't say that his opponents are hand-picked. Mayweather has been wanting to make big fights but two of the biggest opponents (Hatton, Mosley) he has been earnestly pursuing have both declined as of 2005.

You've conveniently forgot to mention that Mayweather wanted half the third world debt to make the fight.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 16 Jan 2006, 14:30

G-man wrote:
MaxPow wrote:
yiddo14 wrote:maxpow- where do you nget your inside information from? u say that hatton has declined the mayweather fight on more than one occasion? u must have some decent connections in the fight game.in effect,you are saying hatton is ducking him.you say that hatton fighting tszyu has no bearing on his courage to fight mayweather,i for one cant see this.tszyu was recognised as undisputed 140lb champion,and was the most feared fighter in the division.you cannot compare mayweathers achievements at 140 to tszyus,not yet anyway.i think people are getting slightly carried away with pbf,i do not doubt the mans incredible skills and movement,but his last 3 fights have been total mismatches,could say hand picked.as for warren? well,he is acting like a big kid on this matter!it's embarrasing,he cant accept that hatton is moving on to bigger and better things(likely to sign with golden boy.p)allegedly allegedly allegedly allegedly is great selling out arenas in our country,but he doesnt like to venture across the pond,which is necessary as the US is where its all at in the fight game.hatton should vacate the titles rather than fight these 2 unknowns.
Inside information? Not at all, I've just been following the potential match-up very closely. Hatton's dad Ray also admits that they turned down offers to fight Mayweather in 2005. But that's all old news from last year. You might still be able to dig up some old articles about that on the net. I had a number of links on the topic but lost them in the ESB server crash.

Hatton is the 140 pound champ. Mayweather is the #1 contender at 140 pounds. If we were back in the days when there was only one title for each weight class, Hatton would have been stripped for not agreeing to fight Mayweather as soon as possible.

On Mayweather's "hand-picked" opponents: I wouldn't say that his opponents are hand-picked. Mayweather has been wanting to make big fights but two of the biggest opponents (Hatton, Mosley) he has been earnestly pursuing have both declined as of 2005.

You've conveniently forgot to mention that Mayweather wanted half the third world debt to make the fight.

They didnt get to the stage of talking about money - they were flat out refused

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 16 Jan 2006, 14:34

According to whom? Where exactly did you read that.

states · Post by **states** » 16 Jan 2006, 14:49

According to this article:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 38,00.html

Ray Hatton says they turned down 2 offers, but would expect an offer now "to be more realistic", which to me implys that last years offers from Floyd certainly did mention money, and probably not enough of it.

MaxPow · Post by **MaxPow** » 16 Jan 2006, 17:04

states wrote:According to this article:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 38,00.html

Ray Hatton says they turned down 2 offers, but would expect an offer now "to be more realistic", which to me implys that last years offers from Floyd certainly did mention money, and probably not enough of it.

That's reading into it a little bit too much. Money was not implied in the article at all. Talks of Hatton facing Mayweather were quashed before they were even of the topic of money, camp Hatton straight up turned it down.

MaxPow · Post by **MaxPow** » 16 Jan 2006, 17:08

MightyWarrior wrote:
MaxPow wrote:
yiddo14 wrote:mr fwank warren has a regular slot in a british sunday newspaper.and today he revealed he offered hatton the mayweather fight last year,and more suprisingly the cotto fight! hhmmmm.......interesting development.i could see rickys reluctance to fight mayweather last year,but cotto? whats all that about?
It turns out Hatton was the WBO mandatory at the time. And also according to Bob Arum, Miguel Cotto was willing to go over to England to have the match.
Corley was WBO champ when Hatton was mandatory: he passed on the shot and was removed from the WBO ratings as a result.
So Arum may be.....lying - what a shocker!!

Are you positive? I would have thought they were talking about a fight in 2005, not three years ago.

states · Post by **states** » 16 Jan 2006, 17:16

MaxPow wrote:
states wrote:According to this article:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 38,00.html

Ray Hatton says they turned down 2 offers, but would expect an offer now "to be more realistic", which to me implys that last years offers from Floyd certainly did mention money, and probably not enough of it.
That's reading into it a little bit too much. Money was not implied in the article at all. Talks of Hatton facing Mayweather were quashed before they were even of the topic of money, camp Hatton straight up turned it down.

So other than money, what would have been unrealistic about Floyd's offers last year? Have you got any evidence that money was never discussed at all? You seem very sure. There was a guy on the current scene last year who was saying that Hatton had turned down offers in the region of a million for the fight.

MaxPow · Post by **MaxPow** » 16 Jan 2006, 17:22

states wrote:
MaxPow wrote:
states wrote:According to this article:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 38,00.html

Ray Hatton says they turned down 2 offers, but would expect an offer now "to be more realistic", which to me implys that last years offers from Floyd certainly did mention money, and probably not enough of it.
That's reading into it a little bit too much. Money was not implied in the article at all. Talks of Hatton facing Mayweather were quashed before they were even of the topic of money, camp Hatton straight up turned it down.
So other than money, what would have been unrealistic about Floyd's offers last year? Have you got any evidence that money was never discussed at all? You seem very sure. There was a guy on the current scene last year who was saying that Hatton had turned down offers in the region of a million for the fight.

Well as far as what I've read directly, I am sure.

A number of writers have said in article directly "it never made it to the negotiating table". I had some direct links all posted together but like I said I lost them in a server crash.

"Unrealistic" does not equals money, you know that it's an unreasonable assumption in the first place.

states · Post by **states** » 16 Jan 2006, 17:29

It doesn't have to mean money, no. But it often does.

MaxPow · Post by **MaxPow** » 16 Jan 2006, 17:56

states wrote:It doesn't have to mean money, no. But it often does.

But not in this occassion, apparently. I found one of the articles I was pertaining to awhile ago. Check out this link:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/ ... 50448.html

Kevin Iole wrote:"I can't make these guys fight," said an exasperated Mayweather, who had hoped to face Wright in what would have been one of the year's most intriguing bouts instead of what will turn out to be nothing more than a glorified exhibition.

Former lightweight, welterweight and super welterweight champion Shane Mosley was offered a bout against Mayweather, but declined.

Mosley said he wanted a couple of tuneups, but said he'd fight Mayweather next year.

Kostya Tszyu isn't sure he'll fight again. His conqueror, Ricky Hatton, turned Mayweather down before money was even discussed.

Oscar De La Hoya has mentioned Mayweather, but said he won't consider him until late 2006.

That's around the time when Top Rank promoter Bob Arum said he'd be willing to put young and promising Miguel Cotto in against Mayweather.

There were others, including undisputed welterweight champion Zab Judah, but they couldn't come close to contract terms.

And boxers know there are two ways to get out of a fight: simply by saying no, as Hatton did, or by asking for more money than promoters will be able to pay.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 16 Jan 2006, 18:01

Its all good Mayweather saying he wants these fights then he's asking for 70-30 purse splits just ask Winky Wright. You're obviously biased on this subject. You've made your point though Mayweather says Hatton flat turned down a fight with him. Mayweather does have the propensity to talk shit though.... no?

He certainly wasn't pursuing Hatton when he went through with a glorified sparring session with a washed up Mitchell. I like both these fighters and hope they get it on but I think its as much Mayweather that has stopped this fight happening as Hatton. He did move up to 147 after all with unfinished business at 140.

states · Post by **states** » 16 Jan 2006, 18:07

MaxPow wrote:
states wrote:It doesn't have to mean money, no. But it often does.
But not in this occassion, apparently. I found one of the articles I was pertaining to awhile ago. Check out this link:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/ ... 50448.html

Kevin Iole wrote:"I
Kostya Tszyu isn't sure he'll fight again. His conqueror, Ricky Hatton, turned Mayweather down before money was even discussed.

.

Are you sure that's not referring to the offer that was made a few years ago, when Hatton admitted he wasn't ready, rather than any offer made post-Tszyu?

states · Post by **states** » 16 Jan 2006, 18:11

Either way, I'm getting a bit bored by all the speculation, it's one press release after another, none of them really saying anything of substance. The sooner Hatton comes out and tells us who he's signed with, and who he's fighting, the better.

MaxPow · Post by **MaxPow** » 16 Jan 2006, 18:23

nickd wrote:Its all good Mayweather saying he wants these fights then he's asking for 70-30 purse splits just ask Winky Wright. You're obviously biased on this subject. You've made your point though Mayweather says Hatton flat turned down a fight with him. Mayweather does have the propensity to talk shit though.... no?

He certainly wasn't pursuing Hatton when he went through with a glorified sparring session with a washed up Mitchell. I like both these fighters and hope they get it on but I think its as much Mayweather that has stopped this fight happening as Hatton. He did move up to 147 after all with unfinished business at 140.

About Winky, let's assume that the 70/30 purse split is factual. Arum said that there was atleast $12M in that fight. That would still be large for Winky if not among the largest he'd have made so far. Not saying that it's right, I'm just pointing it out.

About Mayweather moving up to 147 pounds with unfinished business, well, if he hasn't been stripped already, Floyd is still the WBC beltholder at 140. And he has said himself that he will be fighting at both 140 pounds and at 147 pounds. He can do it. He weighs about the same during fight night at 140 as he would at 147 anyway, so no problem at all there. As far as we all know, he walks around at a lower weight than Hatton so if a match-up were inked, he might even have an easier time making weight than the champion himself.

About the glorified sparring session, Mitchell was a top contender not so long ago. Also, he was a tune-up to be able to be prepared for Judah. Asides from that, he didn't have much of a choice since all those other mentioned potential match-ups (Hatton, Mosley) turned him down and the others have expressed that they are not ready.

About me being biased, call it what you want to but I have been fair. And as a matter of fact, I am a moderate Hatton fan. It's not like i'm making anything up or reading too much into anything; these things are have all been reported. It may be a bitter pill but we still have to swallow it.

MaxPow · Post by **MaxPow** » 16 Jan 2006, 18:24

states wrote:
MaxPow wrote:
states wrote:It doesn't have to mean money, no. But it often does.
But not in this occassion, apparently. I found one of the articles I was pertaining to awhile ago. Check out this link:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/ ... 50448.html

Kevin Iole wrote:"I
Kostya Tszyu isn't sure he'll fight again. His conqueror, Ricky Hatton, turned Mayweather down before money was even discussed.

.
Are you sure that's not referring to the offer that was made a few years ago, when Hatton admitted he wasn't ready, rather than any offer made post-Tszyu?

This was in 2005, post Tszyu.

EDIT: If i recall correctly, the second offer's proposed date was sometime late in 2005.

states · Post by **states** » 16 Jan 2006, 18:32

Well, either way, let's just hope they actually fight at some point.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 16 Jan 2006, 18:55

MaxPow wrote:
nickd wrote:Its all good Mayweather saying he wants these fights then he's asking for 70-30 purse splits just ask Winky Wright. You're obviously biased on this subject. You've made your point though Mayweather says Hatton flat turned down a fight with him. Mayweather does have the propensity to talk shit though.... no?

He certainly wasn't pursuing Hatton when he went through with a glorified sparring session with a washed up Mitchell. I like both these fighters and hope they get it on but I think its as much Mayweather that has stopped this fight happening as Hatton. He did move up to 147 after all with unfinished business at 140.
About Winky, let's assume that the 70/30 purse split is factual. Arum said that there was atleast $12M in that fight. That would still be large for Winky if not among the largest he'd have made so far. Not saying that it's right, I'm just pointing it out.

About Mayweather moving up to 147 pounds with unfinished business, well, if he hasn't been stripped already, Floyd is still the WBC beltholder at 140. And he has said himself that he will be fighting at both 140 pounds and at 147 pounds. He can do it. He weighs about the same during fight night at 140 as he would at 147 anyway, so no problem at all there. As far as we all know, he walks around at a lower weight than Hatton so if a match-up were inked, he might even have an easier time making weight than the champion himself.

About the glorified sparring session, Mitchell was a top contender not so long ago. Also, he was a tune-up to be able to be prepared for Judah. Asides from that, he didn't have much of a choice since all those other mentioned potential match-ups (Hatton, Mosley) turned him down and the others have expressed that they are not ready.

About me being biased, call it what you want to but I have been fair. And as a matter of fact, I am a moderate Hatton fan. It's not like i'm making anything up or reading too much into anything; these things are have all been reported. It may be a bitter pill but we still have to swallow it.

I see where you're coming from but it would be extremely naive to believe everything you read especially when it comes to this sport! I dont see why Hatton v Mayweather cannot be made for April/May, the Hatton camp said last week they would take it if offered they should get it on. No doubt Mayweather would want a huge purse but it should be a 50-50 split in reality.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Jan 2006, 19:45

I've long since learned not to believe a single word which comes out of any promoter or fighter's mouth.

Even when people are telling the truth, it's their own version of the truth, boxing is the land of smoke and mirrors, and the more you try and get at 'the truth' the more elusive it becomes.

The truth is like trying to find the source of a rainbow, impossible.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 16 Jan 2006, 19:46

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I've long since learned not to believe a single word which comes out of any promoter or fighter's mouth.

Even when people are telling the truth, it's their own version of the truth, boxing is the land of smoke and mirrors, and the more you try and get at 'the truth' the more elusive it becomes.

The truth is like trying to find the source of a rainbow, impossible.

My sentiments exactly.

MaxPow · Post by **MaxPow** » 16 Jan 2006, 21:45

nickd wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:I've long since learned not to believe a single word which comes out of any promoter or fighter's mouth.

Even when people are telling the truth, it's their own version of the truth, boxing is the land of smoke and mirrors, and the more you try and get at 'the truth' the more elusive it becomes.

The truth is like trying to find the source of a rainbow, impossible.
My sentiments exactly.

Ok, that's fine. While it sounds a little more like we've just described the World Wrestling Federation rather than boxing. I don't see anything wrong with discussing the reports. Some of them might not be true; some of those releases are probably part of the promotion's hype machinery, many if not all comments made are tainted with bias.

But that's how the world works - it's not exclusive boxing. You go inside a courtroom and it's the same ol' thing. In politics, the same o'l thing. At work, it's the same ol' thing. While I'm young, I've lived long enough to approach pretty much everything in life with jaded question mark above my head, that deosn't mean I won't form my opinions with substance from actual reports.

Ofcourse we will all be a lot more accurate if we talk historically; about things that have already happened, contracts that have been signed, fights that we've seen. But this is the course the discussion has taken and if we have to forecast on the likely scenarios, we should base them on something.

Great forums you have here, by the way!