Ezzard Charles vs Evander Holyfield

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

i never understand why people hold liston in higher esteem than tyson. tyson showed far more heart than liston ever did.

Like when?... Liston never bit anyones ear off, tried to break an opponents arm, bite an opponents thigh, threaten to eat an opponents children, or bitten an opponents nipple!... yeh! Mikes all heart!... 8)

that was when tyson was a shell of his former self


tyson in his prime never quit on a stool when the going got tough.

[dempseyfire]

i never understand why people hold liston in higher esteem than tyson. tyson showed far more heart than liston ever did.

Like when?... Liston never bit anyones ear off, tried to break an opponents arm, bite an opponents thigh, threaten to eat an opponents children, or bitten an opponents nipple!... yeh! Mikes all heart!... 8)

that was when tyson was a shell of his former self


tyson in his prime never quit on a stool when the going got tough.

I disagree BB.

Tyson's way of quitting on his stool was chomping on Tyson's ear, and Liston was as far past his best for the Clay fight as Tyson was in the 2nd Holyfield fight. And Sonny REALLY DID have an injured shoulder . . .but the popular Ali-centered re-write of history says he just quit b/c he was losing so badly, even though Sonny was behind ONE round on the scorecards.

[Ambling Alp]

Well, I guess it's a sign that a topic has been beaten to death when we start talking about Tyson for the umpteenth time.
I do want address a few points though.
-Qawi was washed up when he fought Holyfield? He fought a tremendous fight the first time and would have been successful almost any other time.

Elmer Ray was not one of the top 30 heavyweights of all time. That's just silly.

-I didn't mean to rip Harold Johnson as someone thought I was. In fact I think he was one of the top 10 light heavyweights ever. I was just mentioning him as one of 3 different fighters that Charles lost to when he was a heavyweight that he really shouldn't have.

-I don't buy the arguement at all that Charles was way past his prime when he was 31 and lost to Layne, but just for the sake of arguement lets say the 1948 Charles(When Charles was 27 and supposed to be at his best) fought Holyfield at his best, in the late 1980's - early 1990's. Holyfield had more than a one year prime.
What game plan would be effective against Holyfield?
Would he go toe-toe and try to slug it out with Holyfield? Charles would be too smart to try that.
Would Charles try to just try to beat him with his jab. He would haven't have a lot of luck with that. Holyfield had a good jab himself and had the height and reach advantage. Besides, Charles jab wouldn't be strong enough to keep Holyfield at bay for long.
Could he dance around for 12-15 rounds, trying to stay out of range. No, he wouldn't be able to keep that up for long.

What scenario would lead to a Charles victory?

Charles was a great fighter. He is probably a top 20 all time heavyweight. However, Holyfield is even better, and Charles just doesn't match up with him very well.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Elmer Ray was not one of the top 30 heavyweights of all time. That's just silly.

what makes u say this?


ray beat a peak ezzard charles and jersey joe walcott. ray was a boxer/puncher who had great power in both hands and was a good boxer with solid defense. at 6'2 200lb he was a good sized heavyweight. Ray is a hugely underated heavyweight. im guessing u just havnt done much research on him.

[Ezzard]

Like when?... Liston never bit anyones ear off, tried to break an opponents arm, bite an opponents thigh, threaten to eat an opponents children, or bitten an opponents nipple!... yeh! Mikes all heart!... 8)

that was when tyson was a shell of his former self


tyson in his prime never quit on a stool when the going got tough.

I disagree BB.

Tyson's way of quitting on his stool was chomping on Tyson's ear, and Liston was as far past his best for the Clay fight as Tyson was in the 2nd Holyfield fight. And Sonny REALLY DID have an injured shoulder . . .but the popular Ali-centered re-write of history says he just quit b/c he was losing so badly, even though Sonny was behind ONE round on the scorecards.

Dempsey

You are completely right on this one. Tyson quit. He knew Holyfield was going to beat him again and he wanted a way out.

[Ezzard]

What game plan would be effective against Holyfield?
Would he go toe-toe and try to slug it out with Holyfield? Charles would be too smart to try that.
Would Charles try to just try to beat him with his jab. He would haven't have a lot of luck with that. Holyfield had a good jab himself and had the height and reach advantage. Besides, Charles jab wouldn't be strong enough to keep Holyfield at bay for long.
Could he dance around for 12-15 rounds, trying to stay out of range. No, he wouldn't be able to keep that up for long.

What scenario would lead to a Charles victory?

Charles was a great fighter. He is probably a top 20 all time heavyweight. However, Holyfield is even better, and Charles just doesn't match up with him very well.

Overall Holy might well be the better HW. Holy was mobile but I believe Charles was even more so. Charles was also very elusive. He would have picked his moments to come down off his toes and exchange. EH's punches would have been damaging but I can't see him landing that one shot that could make the difference. Holy would come on strong and force the action, and would have had a lot of success later on when Charles's legs would need a rest. I still think ezzard can get the decision even though you do raise some excellent points.