Philly Middleweights

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 14 Jan 2006, 10:04

Philadelphia has turned out some of the tougher middleweights , at least over the last half century ,fighters such as George Benton, Joey Giardello, Bennie Briscoe, Willie Monroe, Cyclone Hart, Bobby Watts,Bernard Hopkins,Kitten Hayward had I believe a few fights at Jr. Middle.THere were some others, who was the toughest? I would say Briscoe.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 14 Jan 2006, 10:40

Briscoe was probably the quintessential Philidelphian fighter, especially at Middleweight, but Giardiello was a toughie too, though he is more thought of as a skillful boxer...

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 14 Jan 2006, 10:43

I'd say Bad Bennie was the toughest. He was a bloody hard puncher, with a granite chin and a big heart. But Eugene Hart hit the hardest. His left hook was phenomonal.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 14 Jan 2006, 12:45

DoubleM wrote:I'd say Bad Bennie was the toughest. He was a bloody hard puncher, with a granite chin and a big heart. But Eugene Hart hit the hardest. His left hook was phenomonal.

ya eugene hart once kayoed big tim witherspoon in a sparring session

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 14 Jan 2006, 14:01

I also vote for Bad Bennie Briscoe the teak tough, bald headed, Middleweight wrecking machine of the 1970's. I saw a photograph of Briscoe recently and he still looks a 'Bad' dude.

Briscoe may have lacked a bit of speed but was as strong as an Ox, had a thudding jab (he said he liked to aim for the back of the skull, via the front!!), and was at times a real brutal body puncher. He also had one of the best chins I have seen on a Middleweight. Second to Hagler, Briscoe is my favourite Middleweight of all time.

By all accounts he was also not the type of fighter to hold back in sparring and even towards the end of his career sent many a young hopefull home with saw ribs and bruised kidneys after a sparring session.

Briscoe often sparred with bigger men like Saad Muhammad and Dwight Qawi, oh how much money would I have paid to see them sparring sessions!!!

BB49 is indeed correct about Eugene Hart KOing a young Tim Witherspoon, Hart had a left hook that contained the devil himself.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 14 Jan 2006, 14:17

KOJOE - I'm sure you've seen the Hagler-Hart fight? That was a testament to Hagler's chin... Watch the end of the fifth round just before the bell, Hart lands his left hook from hell right on Hagler's ear and follows it up with a right. Hagler copes with it pretty well, putting up his guard and closing the distance before the bell rings.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 17 Jan 2006, 11:42

Hagler was the toughest fighter I've seen.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 17 Jan 2006, 13:05

dr_devious wrote:Hagler was the toughest fighter I've seen.

Same here.

He fought probably the hardest hitting collection of middleweights of any champion, yet was never floored once, and in reality, was only truly stunned once by a ten punch combination. Takes a bit of doing.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 17 Jan 2006, 13:19

Hagler also made it a point to fight these guys. He and his team called the Philly Middleweights "The Iron".

ShoeShine · Post by **ShoeShine** » 20 Jan 2006, 11:19

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
DoubleM wrote:I'd say Bad Bennie was the toughest. He was a bloody hard puncher, with a granite chin and a big heart. But Eugene Hart hit the hardest. His left hook was phenomonal.

ya eugene hart once kayoed big tim witherspoon in a sparring session

I think that is just a myth

ShoeShine · Post by **ShoeShine** » 20 Jan 2006, 11:20

Bad Bennie

Hopkins is pretty tough also. Another fighter from philly that probably would of been a great on if it wasnt for his premature death was James Shuler.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 20 Jan 2006, 11:25

ShoeShine wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
DoubleM wrote:I'd say Bad Bennie was the toughest. He was a bloody hard puncher, with a granite chin and a big heart. But Eugene Hart hit the hardest. His left hook was phenomonal.

ya eugene hart once kayoed big tim witherspoon in a sparring session
I think that is just a myth

It may well be a myth, but it was possible. I'm sure Hart hit as hard as many heavies.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 20 Jan 2006, 12:59

Can you imagine anyone today doing what Hagler did and going head-to-head with all those dangerous Philly MWs with no alphabet title on the table?

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 20 Jan 2006, 13:06

Ezzard wrote:Can you imagine anyone today doing what Hagler did and going head-to-head with all those dangerous Philly MWs with no alphabet title on the table?

No because unfortunately, we'll probably never see that same level of ability in one division again.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 20 Jan 2006, 13:08

Ezzard wrote:Can you imagine anyone today doing what Hagler did and going head-to-head with all those dangerous Philly MWs with no alphabet title on the table?

Your right and that is what I respect about Marvin . He took pride in being a fighter and thats what he believed a real pro should do.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 20 Jan 2006, 16:40

Hagler was the true professional. Everything from his mentality, training, fighting style and retirement. He was always in top condition, aimed to become the best in his weight class and fought everybody, fought economically and always did what he had to do to win, and he got out at the right time and never came back. Marvin was all business.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 30 Jan 2006, 13:30

I wonder how Bernard Hopkins career would have developed if he had had to mix with the likes of Briscoe, Hart, Monroe, Hayward, Benton etc on his way up?

Would it have hardened him into an even better fighter or would he have gotten crushed/lost in the mix at some point?

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 30 Jan 2006, 15:05

KOJOE90 wrote:I wonder how Bernard Hopkins career would have developed if he had had to mix with the likes of Briscoe, Hart, Monroe, Hayward, Benton etc on his way up?

Would it have hardened him into an even better fighter or would he have gotten crushed/lost in the mix at some point?

He certainly wouldn't be fighting 'til forty.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 30 Jan 2006, 15:38

DoubleM wrote:
KOJOE90 wrote:I wonder how Bernard Hopkins career would have developed if he had had to mix with the likes of Briscoe, Hart, Monroe, Hayward, Benton etc on his way up?

Would it have hardened him into an even better fighter or would he have gotten crushed/lost in the mix at some point?
He certainly wouldn't be fighting 'til forty.

Excellent point, those gym wars take a toll.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 30 Jan 2006, 15:42

expug wrote:
DoubleM wrote:
KOJOE90 wrote:I wonder how Bernard Hopkins career would have developed if he had had to mix with the likes of Briscoe, Hart, Monroe, Hayward, Benton etc on his way up?

Would it have hardened him into an even better fighter or would he have gotten crushed/lost in the mix at some point?
He certainly wouldn't be fighting 'til forty.
Excellent point, those gym wars take a toll.

Yea, I would say if Hopkins fought the guys Hagler did, his career would have been significantly shorter. Hagler had a great defense back then, too, he wasn't doing an Arturo Gatti on those guys. Eugene Hart, Bennie Briscoe... Big Bangers. Bobby Watts, Willie Monroe, tough slicksters. Then you had Colbert, Finnegan, Geraldo, Cabrera, all these tough, world ranked guys. And then the prospects of course, with Seales, Demmings, Hamani, Baldwin... And that was before he won the title.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 30 Jan 2006, 16:01

He went after the toughest fighters that were around back then. He didnt sit around waiting for a title shot. And he always stayed loyal to the Petronellis, who were with him from day one ,even when it appeared they were having trouble getting him a shot. He did the right thing and it paid off. Another reason why I respect Hagler.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 30 Jan 2006, 16:19

expug wrote:He went after the toughest fighters that were around back then. He didnt sit around waiting for a title shot. And he always stayed loyal to the Petronellis, who were with him from day one ,even when it appeared they were having trouble getting him a shot. He did the right thing and it paid off. Another reason why I respect Hagler.

Well yea, it paid off in the fact that Hagler's reputation as a fighter is excellent now - he never avoided anyone. But because he was so good back then and was beating the other contenders, the champions were avoiding him.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 30 Jan 2006, 17:28

Decagon wrote:
DoubleM wrote:
KOJOE90 wrote:I wonder how Bernard Hopkins career would have developed if he had had to mix with the likes of Briscoe, Hart, Monroe, Hayward, Benton etc on his way up?

Would it have hardened him into an even better fighter or would he have gotten crushed/lost in the mix at some point?
He certainly wouldn't be fighting 'til forty.
Call me crazy, but spending six years in the joint, being stabbed repeatedly and having to shower with his shorts on to keep from getting raped might be just as bad as going through some of the wars that Hagler went through. And let's not forget that Hopkins came through the tough Philadelphia gyms, as well.

I'd say the fights were harder. Seriously.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 30 Jan 2006, 18:07

Decagon wrote:Well, by coincidence, I was reading through a huge website about abuses in Pennsylvania prisons a few nights ago, and I'm not sure.

You reckon Hopkins was raped while inside?

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 31 Jan 2006, 08:54

Decagon wrote:Well, by coincidence, I was reading through a huge website about abuses in Pennsylvania prisons a few nights ago, and I'm not sure.

Was Hopkins mentioned in this article, if so do you have a link?