Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

The Armpit Of The World

One evening after a four round sparring session at the 32nd Naval Street Gym in San Diego with my friend,amateur heavyweight Gary Young,I was eavesdropping on a conversation between a couple of sailors who were watching the workouts at ringside.One of them brought up the subject of West Jordan,Utah.You see, he was from there and so were the fighting Fullmer brothers.He was saying to the other tar that he learned how to fight watching the Fullmers,especially Gene,and that West Jordan was equivalent of the Garden of Eden, in so many words.He went on and on about West Jordan,Utah when finally the other sailor cut him off.
"I've been to West Jordan,Utah,"he spouted."It's the armpit of the world."
With that remark ,the conversation went no further.

I remember watching Gene Fullmer fight on TV. He was handled by another West Jordanian,Marv Jensen. Together,they climbed up a tough middleweight division during the 50's with Gene wresting the title from Sugar Ray Robinson.

Back then I never liked Gene Fullmer. He pretty much had his way with two of my favorites,Ray Robinson and Carmen Basilio.For one thing, I didn't like the way Fullmer fought. I thought he was a dirty fighter,but reassessing it,he was just a crude hulk of a man. He didn't seem to mind getting punched as long as he could get in there with one of his bull rushes and get a few swats in of his own.He only lost six times in 84 fights and if you look at how he fared against Robby and Carmen,his won/loss ratio is more impressive than how the other two finished against him.Gene was 2wins,a loss,and a draw against Robinson.Carmen couldn't finish against him in two tries,yet Robinson and Basilio were inaugural inductees into the IBHF while Gene had to wait his turn the following year.Gene should have been sitting in that group shot of the first inductees along with Carmen.

Sometimes I think Fullmer is more known for his only loss to Robinson. Ray was getting pushed around for the second time when you know what happened. If you look up "left hook" in the dictionary,you'll see Robinson's left glove on the side of Fullmer's chin. Robinson and Basilio were way ahead on the popularity scale than Fullmer. Robinson is usually considered the best pound for pound fighter(though I'd have to disagree with that if I think of him as a middleweight)and the IBHOF erected their Hall of Fame headquarters in Canastoga ,New York,Basilio's burg.

But Gene was from West Jordan. Not exactly a hub of the boxing world.It's a tough place.A blue collar town.And just because Mormons aren't supposed to smoke and drink doesn't mean they can't take care of themselves.I've passed through West Jordan,Utah. It's a far cry from ,let's say,New Haven,Connecticut.

So while Fullmer was tucked away in the "armpit of the world",as that disgruntled swabby said,Robinson and Basilio were written about,interviewed,and documented as icons of the sport. Their faces were out there while Gene's busted up mug kept inside Mormon country. But he was satisfied with that. Gene and his former manager Marv Jensen donated a lot of time and money in their neck of the woods for the community and especially youth groups. Though Fullmer might have looked like a "dirty fighter",he was a nice guy outside those ropes.I credit Marv Jensen for looking after him. When Gene finally met his match by another brute,Dick Tiger,Jensen talked his charge into hanging them up.

Gene Fullmer passed away this week,several days after his fighting bro Jay left us. If you want to refer to West Jordan as an "armpit", then go ahead,but then I've got say that Gene Fullmer was the deodorant that made it smell not so bad.


Gene Fullmer modeling one of his boxing techniques-leading with his face

[Chuck1052]

According to his autobiography, Sugar Ray Robinson felt it was odd that Gene Fullmer had a barroom-type fighting style despite being a Mormon.

[Chuck1052]

Gene Fullmer's obituary is in today's edition of the Los Angeles Times.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

The Lady With The Orange Hair

Might as well get this over with. I watched last night's fight in Tijuana at the Caliente Sports Book between 2nd and 3rd Streets on Revolution Boulevard.There's another Caliente book inside where the old Jai Alai Palace was. I could have gone there(I parked my car in their lot for four bucks) ,but I was hungry so I walked nine blocks to the Coahuila because I was hungry and the carts there have the best food for the best price in town. I didn't eat home style exactly because I wanted those Mexican hot dogs wrapped in bacon with everything on them. So after plugging my gut with six of those babies I walked back up a couple of blocks to the casino between 2nd and 3rd.

The city was really buzzing last night.Hordes of people walking along the streets,music blaring from all the clubs,the street between 4th and 5th on Revolution was blocked off.Rock bands were performing,people were dancing to the music,Everyone was on the move ,on the hustle looking for action.The night was just getting started. All the bars and restaurants had the fight on. The cable down there(Sky Box) had it on a two round delay,but if a place wanted to buy the live feed to show in their joint it was around 280 pesos. I knew the book would have the live feed so I opted to go there. I found a nice comfy chair and plopped my butt down. A waitress came over and I ordered a Tecate Light for 2 and a quarter. After finishing off the beer,I ordered a cup of coffee for 75 cents. My seat was by the bar.The place was packed with people wanting to see the fight and of course the usual gambling degenerates.There were four flat screens on my side of the horseshoe bar and nine more above the ticket windows. I got there an hour before the fight was supposed to begin so there was other sporting events on the televisions--horse racing from Los Alamitos and Australia,soccer games from various cities in Mexico,major league baseball and basketball(the playoff game between the Spurs and the Clippers was more exciting than the fight,but I'm getting ahead of myself),and then there was dog racing from the Caliente Racetrack in TJ.

The horse and dog fiends were plopping there money down at the betting windows after every race. I didn't see many tickets cashed,but that didn't deter their hopes to make a big score.The dogs run every ten minutes so the action is at a pretty fast clip. If anything, losing just feeds the degenerate's appetite.I saw an old lady with orange hair wearing leopard spotted pants and pointed black high heels sitting at a table with the sheet spread out in front of her. I think she was with this guy,but it might have been just another degenerate that shared the same addiction.She was betting every race and the way she perused the the screen I could tell her attention was on the dogs.

After the semi main at the MGM,most of the sets were switched to the big fight.Now everybody's focus was on the main event. I don't want to describe it any other way than that. It was the main event. However, the old gal with the orange locks was still glued to the screen that was showing the dog races. Her attention never wavered from the greyhounds.

As for the main event,well I can't say it lived up to all the hype. When I saw the Filippino at the start of round one stand in front of the Black guy I knew the Asian was going to be in for a long night.Where was all that pressure,punches from all angles,head movement,and stamina? Maybe since he had to get off the roids he can't maintain that prior level of ferocity. The Black guy tattooed him all night with his jab,smothering his rushes,rolling off the ropes,and tying him up,all the time jumping the left in his face anytime he felt like it. The Filippino couldn't slip it,parry the punch,nor counter it. It kind of reminded me of how Jack Johnson handled Jeffries and the way Clay made Liston not come out for the 7th round in Miami. The Black guy has the speed and reflexes to go along with this ability to anticipate what his opponent is going to do. It doesn't make for an epic struggle of a blood bath with both fighters knocking each other down and the crowd going crazy.For all that hype and all that dough,it was a dud of a bout. Who in their right mind would want to see a rematch of that?

I thought the Filippino had a good shot. He said he never felt better.He said the "finger of God" would strike the Black guy down. The ionly"finger" the Asian got was maybe the middle one the Black guy was exhibiting at him that was inside his glove. The after the final bell,the Filippino said his shoulder was lame and that he was denied a "shot" that would have eased the pain. I wish someone could have given me a shot to ease my pain of watching this rip off. I had it 177 to 113 for the Black guy. I left before the 12th round ended to beat the rush out the door. As I was leaving I glanced over my shoulder. The lady with the orange hair was still rapt up watching the dogs run around the track. like I said,I didn't see her cash in a ticket,but she was smart enough not to watch the biggest sports disappointment in recent history.

When I go to my Yahoo homepage and click on to "sports",boxing has been relegated to the category of "other sports" along with the likes of field hockey and womens' softball. After last night I can't envision any relocation of that position to a higher tier. Maybe that gal with the funny hair doesn't seem to mind. Come to think of it,I didn't see "dog racing" even getting designated to the "other Sports"category. Last night,however, dog racing seemed to have a hell of a lot more going for it than boxing.


He says he's greater than Robinson and Ali. He says he's the greatest of all time. After last night I don't see him making a retraction.

[dagosd2000]

The Champion Who Never Was

George Foreman said the greatest heavyweight of his era who never became champ was Jerry Quarry. Can't argue with big George. Got to respect his opinion so I won't second guess him. In fact it's not worth my time to second guess anyone,especially on these threads,about who was this or that.It's all hypothetical.So I won't disagree with the ex champ,but I just add a name alongside Mr. Quarry.I'd like to think that Jimmy Young should get a call.

Now that topic about the best that never wore that title belt has certainly been kicked around the gym enough times that you could write a book. Boxing people recognized the talents of jimmy Young,but the fan who wanted that magnetism with his nomination often didn't give Jimmy Young much mention.

That era of the 60's and 70's has often been called "the Golden Era" of heavyweights. We had Jerry.A man who wasn't afraid of anybody,who threw caution to the wind no matter if he was in there with an opponent who carried bigger guns.There was Shavers who might of had the most powerful right cross who ever lived.The indestructible lumberjack,George Chuvalo. The bull,Bonavena.The menacing Ron Lyle.These guys were tough,but they were high profile too. Jimmy young never brought a charisma with him into the ring.

Jimmy was a Philly fighter who was a cutie pie,slippery,made the other guy look bad,not the Philadelphia gym war prototype that waged in smokin'. He beat Lyle twice. Made Big George go into semi retirement(and a spell of semi depression). Jimmy made Ali swing at air in a title fight that could have gone either way, and stepped in with Kenny Norton in a title elimination bout that was a controversial split decision loss for Young. Later Norton was given a heavyweight belt. So like the saying goes,"so near yet so far away."

I saw Jimmy fight out here in San Diego at the Coliseum on an undercard. He was brought out from the east coast as a set up guy for the local hero. Well I was there that night. The local kid was familiarizing himself with the canvas within the first minute of the opening frame. It was a six round semi. For the next five rounds Jimmy thought that he was giving lessons at Arthur Murray's. The lesson that night was doing the waltz. Jimmy lost a unanimous decision and went back to Philly.No one gave it a second thought, including myself.

But Jimmy was the real article. He was mishandled. The" smart boys" knew he wasn't going to be a big draw. He wasn't a" killer" in there.His body was kind of soft looking. He wasn't a star in front of a camera.After time,he was delegated to the tank towns. How many of his fights were fixed only the insiders know.He returned to being the "set up."

Jimmy Young died at the age of 56.He could have been a champ if he was connected with the right people. He would of had to KO Ali,but Jimmy didn't pack that kind of wallop.Kenny Norton had more to give the fans than Jimmy. Let's face it,in boxing it's who can you make the most money with.Jimmy Young just didn't have that kind of juice.


Jimmy Young

[Chuck1052]

Jimmy Young was at his peak for only three or four years starting with a draw in a rematch with Earnie Shavers, but he did quite well in every bout during that period of time while facing Shavers, Muhammad Ali, Ron Lyle (twice), George Foreman and Ken Norton. Many people consider Norton to be better than Young, but the latter could match up much better with all of the top heavyweights of the time. Norton simply had to be matched very carefully because of his inability to cope with top punchers.
Moreover, Norton made his reputation in very close bouts with the boxer-types like Ali (three times), Young and Larry Holmes.

I remember when Young was interviewed for least one Boxing News article about his boxing career, probably about decade before his untimely death. He had an absolutely incredible memory about minute details of his boxing career. Yet I later learned that he had quite a bit of trouble with his short-term memory, which was hard for me to believe at the time. But I found out that people with dementia often have far better long-term memories than short-term ones.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

This Is The City

That's what Joe Friday would say when he'd do the intro to Dragnet.
"This is the city,Los Angeles,California."
Then he'd go on about what LA was about--sometimes mentioning something about its history,the area and population,the opportunities,the crime stats(that's when he'd get involved because he carried a badge).

As Sergeant Friday would talk we'd get some sort of panorama of the city. Usually it was a hazy glare with a layer of smog in the backdrop.The view wasn't anything earthshaking although Southern California is known for its quakes. I could never recognize if it was a view of what particular valley. LA is a city where the suburbs run into each other and it's hard to tell sometimes when you're leaving one town and entering another. There's no skyline that's has the character of a New York. The only building that I could ever recall is The Daily Planet Building where Clark Kent and Lois lane worked. That building is still there,but obviously it's not the Daily Planet Building and never was,but that's where Los Angeles has it over all the other cities in the world--the dreams of Hollywood.

Los Angeles is the movie and television capital of the world.London , Paris,and Rome have the old architectural landmarks.New York has the skyscrapers.Western civilization doesn't have its birthplace in LA.But let's face it.How is a culture established? What really teaches the people?Where do they get most of their information?How are minds molded? From the screen and the tube.We're entertained and, in the end, mix fantasy with reality which comes out not being honest.It's all an illusion that becomes,in a way,a faith.A worship of false idols.Don't say" it's only a movie."You believe that s--t.

When Jack Webb put together his "baby" Dragnet,he studied how the LAPD functioned day to day. He wanted the program to be as real as possible.He didn't want his actors acting. He told them to read their lines off a teleprompter.Webb wanted everything dry with no nonsense. That's the way cops behaved inside the station.There was no acting.

During the 50's Dragnet was one of most popular shows around. It was the first TV series to be made into a movie.The show aired from 1952 through 1959.Webb used a staple of the more or less the same actors. He controlled everything,but he always consulted with his idol, LA Police Chief William Parker,to make sure everything was just as it would go down at headquarters before putting an episode in the can.

Webb revived the show in 1967 holding to the same principles as the old show,but the culture of the country had gone counter. The scripts often attacked what the youth were listening to--and it wasn't mom and dad.The new Dragnet was a dud.It was cancelled after two seasons.Police shows were evolving into Hill street Blues and Barney Miller.Movies like the New Centurions and Serpico were steeped with pathos and "realism."

I used to work at the jails and honor camps in San Diego. I was a teacher wanting to teach prisoners that were looking for an alternative lifestyle.Let me tell you, Dragnet was closer to the truth than Dirty Harry by a lightyear. Jack Webb had it right,but nowadays people can't see the forest from the trees anymore.Case in point--they put Sylvester Stallone in the IBHOF .Did I ever tell you my son,some years back,literally threw" Rocky" out of a restaurant my son was assistant managing.My son is 5 foot six and 160 pounds.And instead of erecting a statue of Smokin' Joe or some of the other great Philly fighter on the steps of city hall in Cheesesteak town,they put up one of those "Hollywood fighters."You guys that have been in the ring I don't have to tell you how that stinks.
https
https://youtu.be/MfwZa5rRRNQ

Sergeant Friday shooting from the hip

[pbchron]

Here is some good news. On "March 17", 2006, a beautiful historical marker was erected at 17th + Rittner in South Philadelphia of Tommy Loughran on the corner in front of his parish church, St. Monica's. Tommy and family grew up at 16th + Rittner. Through the efforts of Celeste Morello. The marker reads "TOMMY LOUGHRAN (1902 - 1982), World Light Heavyweight Champion from 1927 to 1929. He boxed during the "Golden Age of Boxing" in many weight classes, besting 10 champs in his 18 year career. The "Philly Phantom" had a scientific style built on precision and maneuverability rather than brute force. Considered a gentleman both in and out of the ring. In 1991 he was elected to the International Boxing Hall of Fame. Loughran was devoted to his neighborhood and church here."

On May 21, 2011, through the "grass roots" efforts of VBA Ring One, door to door collections through the predominately Italian neighborhood in South Philadelphia, local businesses and Joey Vento, owner of GENO'S STEAKS (who donated over $20 thousand), local unions, and fans, a beautiful statue of JOEY GIARDELLO was erected at 13th St. + Mifflin + Passyunk Ave. in the heart of "Little Italy" near the Italian Market. The statue also includes the names of 50 of the best Italian-American boxers who came from the neighborhood and 20 other great South Philly boxers of all ethnic + racial groups.

And more good news, the long awaited statue of JOE FRAZIER will be unveiled in Sept. (2015). From all indications there will be a big celebration of Frazier during the event including many celebrities and city and national dignitaries.

Hopefully these tributes to the truly great Philly fighters will be outdraw that ugly bronze Rocky thing.

[dagosd2000]

Here is some good news. On "March 17", 2006, a beautiful historical marker was erected at 17th + Rittner in South Philadelphia of Tommy Loughran on the corner in front of his parish church, St. Monica's. Tommy and family grew up at 16th + Rittner. Through the efforts of Celeste Morello. The marker reads "TOMMY LOUGHRAN (1902 - 1982), World Light Heavyweight Champion from 1927 to 1929. He boxed during the "Golden Age of Boxing" in many weight classes, besting 10 champs in his 18 year career. The "Philly Phantom" had a scientific style built on precision and maneuverability rather than brute force. Considered a gentleman both in and out of the ring. In 1991 he was elected to the International Boxing Hall of Fame. Loughran was devoted to his neighborhood and church here."

On May 21, 2011, through the "grass roots" efforts of VBA Ring One, door to door collections through the predominately Italian neighborhood in South Philadelphia, local businesses and Joey Vento, owner of GENO'S STEAKS (who donated over $20 thousand), local unions, and fans, a beautiful statue of JOEY GIARDELLO was erected at 13th St. + Mifflin + Passyunk Ave. in the heart of "Little Italy" near the Italian Market. The statue also includes the names of 50 of the best Italian-American boxers who came from the neighborhood and 20 other great South Philly boxers of all ethnic + racial groups.

And more good news, the long awaited statue of JOE FRAZIER will be unveiled in Sept. (2015). From all indications there will be a big celebration of Frazier during the event including many celebrities and city and national dignitaries.

Hopefully these tributes to the truly great Philly fighters will be outdraw that ugly bronze Rocky thing.

[dagosd2000]

I'll be in the Big Apple for a week visiting a friend and spending time with my nephew.I'm behind the times with technology.I'll be using the computer at the hotel. Sometimes I can't access the internet,but if I'm able,I'll pass along my impressions.Keep swinging.

[yancey]

It seems to me that referees are issuing warnings or deducting points for punches anywhere close to the beltline far too often and the judges aren't giving fighters enough credit for body punches during bouts at the present time.

- Chuck Johnston

You are absolutely correct on this and I don't like seeing it.

Always enjoyed the body punchers.

[dagosd2000]

The Thrill Is Gone

The only time I saw B.B. king play his guitar was in 1964. I was 18 years old,a senior in high school. I listened to what everyone else listened to in those days ,Motown,surf music,and the first tastes of the British Invasion,but the sounds that were dear to my heart were jazz and the blues.

San Diego venues that showcased the sounds of the likes of Wes Montgomery and B.B. King, were situated in the Black parts of town.White people ,quite frankly, were apprehensive about traveling to the ghetto to listen to that kind of music. They felt comfortable enough just to listen to the on their record players.I remember James Brown put on his show at the El Cortez Hotel that was located downtown,but recalling entering the ballroom that night,it was Southeast San Diego going Uptown to listen to the "hardest working man in show business."

The night I went to see B.B. King ,he was with his band at a club called the Blue Dolphin. The Blue Dolphin was out on the eastern end of the Black neighborhood in a section of town named Encanto. Actually,if you drove through Imperial Avenue, that ran straight through the heart of Logan Heights,you wound up in Encanto that bordered on the redneck burg of Lemon Grove.

The Blue Dolphin was more of what they called a "juke joint" than a night club. They always talked about the illegal poker games in the "back room."I never went to the Blue Dolphin to get into a game of cards though. If there was music on tap,I'd find my way in. I was always a little wary of stepping inside the Blue Dolphin. I never saw a White person in there(except the vice and narcotic dicks),but I knew if I wanted to see how blues and jazz were to be played honestly, I wouldn't be short changed. The Black musicians always felt comfortable performing in front of their kind. The only thing to worry about was not that the music wouldn't be appreciated,but that some card player in the "back room" might have felt that he got cheated and then he'd pull a knife or a gun to settle his "beef."

When I saw B.B. King that night over 50 years ago,I settled at the bar and ordered a beer.They never checked ID's., that I can remember,but unlike the other Black joints in San Diego,the Blue Dolphin never had to shut their doors.

But getting back to B.B. King. It was a time when his music was only played on the "Black" radio stations. The Johnny Otis Show from LA. and before that,Hunter Hancock,also broadcast from Loa Angeles, were the only two stations around spinning Black music. The night I saw B.B. King he played even better than he sounded on vinyl.That's what I loved about listening to the blues and jazz played live. It always sounded better than the albums,those studio recordings. Every song was solid.The crowd would get into it and that inspired the musicians.The Blue Dolphin was a "cracker box" with a low ceiling and poorly lit. The smells of stale beer,sweat,and whiffs of cigarette smoke and that of the "funny" cigarettes were a signature trademark.Sassy looking dames with nice" rump roasts" sat by themselves giving you the eye.

B.B. King sang a tour de force of blues that night. He was living it so he knew how to sing it. He was in his prime back then. If he pulled in a hundred bucks that night it wouldn't have surprised me. He didn't have that international name yet with the fans. The fans who would hear his songs sung by White musicians who honed their talent listening to Blues artists like Albert King,Lil' Walter,and Muddy Waters.But B.B. King got to the top eventually.Later,many of these White musicians would help introduce their mentors to the mainstream audience. B.B. King,eventually, would be embraced by fans throughout the music world.In the year 2000 he opened a club in Times Square in New York. That was a big leap up from getting chump change at the Blue Dolphin.

When I was in New York City last week,I had a yen to go to B.B. Kings's club in the heart of Times Square. It's below street level. There are two rooms--a bar to the left,and across from the bar is the main room that showcases the featured group. I opted to listen to what was going on in the bar. I didn't recognize either of the bands so I saved some money buying a ticket for the lounge performance. I have to say I was OK with it. The crowd was small,mostly tourists. The band was from Harlem. They kept telling the audience not to record them or they would be asked to leave.

Behind the bar was a a big picture of B.B. King playing his guitar."Lucille." The picture looked like it was taken before he became a household name. There was a nice looking younger gal sitting with her date next to me at the bar.I pointed to the picture and began telling her of my time at the Blue Dolphin in 1964. She was wrapped up with my story. Later she got up and went to the big room with her date.She smiled,shook my hand, and thanked me for sharing my experience.

As I sat there listening to a group that sounded a lot like B.B. King,I wondered when the last time B.B. King was in his club.I knew he was very sick with diabetes.The following day I turned on the news to hear that he had died in his sleep in his home in Las Vegas.

He had sure come up in the world. He left a lot of footprints in music.Now he was silent.

Sometimes I wonder that Blues musicians, that finally get their break and reap the financial rewards,can really sing the Blues anymore.You've got to be at the bottom to sing the Blues I would think.For me, singing the Blues in Times Square doesn't add up to singing the Blues at the Blue Dolphin,But I ain't knocking B.B. King. He deserved better and he got it.All those cats do.So,in retrospect, if he'd had been stuck playing at joints like the Blue Dolphin,he couldn't have shared what was in his heart with the rest of the world.

[dagosd2000]

Won't sleep tonight if I don't get this off my chest. That comment I made about jazz and blues recorded in the studio,lacking soul. Check this out.I stand corrected.

https://youtu.be/hhdYoWhBKhM

[Chuck1052]

I saw B.B. King perform at the Ventura Theater in Ventura, California during the late 1980s. Great show!

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

Four O' Clock In The Morning Courage

Ed was just opening up Champs Lounge when I walked in and took a stool at the end of the bar.The weather was warm and hazy. It was dark inside the bar and it took a little time for my eyes to adjust.Ed put a bottle of beer on a coaster in front of me and began to turn on some lights.
"How's Burke doing?"I asked.
Even though I' knew that the old fighter had been slipping,I always ask how he was doing.Since he was put in the home his condition had been worsening. It seems once the dementia begins,the deterioration accelerates. It's like the dam coming apart.
"They asked his family not to come around anymore. For some reason when they come to visit he gets more upset."
"That's too bad,"I said."Who'll come to see him now?"
"I don't know,"answered Ed."It's got to be pretty sad in there."
Ed turned on the TV that was behind the bar to ESPN sports. It was too early for any games to be on.
"I remember Burke telling about how he bartendered in Monteal and there would always be a fight between the English guys and the frogs at the end of the night,"I said.
"After awhile they got together and decided to charge money to the customers to watch them fight. They'd lock the doors and start fighting each other.Burke said they all pulled in some pretty good dough."
"I don't think Burke thought fighting was that big a deal."
"Some people don't have the stomach for it,"said Ed wiping off the counter.
"I think it's especially hard if you're wanting to make a living at it."
"Yeah,it's one thing getting in a street fight. It just happens all of a sudden."
"To plan it all out and then go to the gym everyday takes a lot of will. I know I never had the will to do it,"I said staring into my beer.
"It was the easiest way for Burke to make a living,"said Ed."Fighting was like taking a drink of water."
"You mean taking a shot of booze."
"Yeah,you could say that."
Ed began counting the money in the cash drawer.
"I guess you could say fighters have that 4 o'clock in the morning courage."I said.
"What's that?"asked Ed turning around.
"When Robert E. Lee found out Lincoln had decided to put Ulysses S. Grant as commander in chief of the Army Of the Potomac,Lee said 'we're in trouble now.Grant has that 4 o'clock in the morning courage. He'll fight anytime of the day and not be afraid to do it."
"I forgot. You are the history major,"smirked Ed.
"History always appealed to me more than fighting,"I said.

[dagosd2000]

May Your Daughter----

Red Foxx had a line if he didn't like you:"May your daughter marry a jazz musician."

That's pretty funny, and when he first came up with that expression(the early 50's)it resonated as a sort of a curseJazz musicians for the most part weren't what you'd call paragons of mom and apple pie.

However, when thinking of that line,I also make parallels with other professions that have a history of marital and family chaos.The career that first comes to my mind is prize fighting. I've come across many fighters,pro and amateur,in my lifetime. I can count on half a hand the marriages that endured a normalcy that resembled something like Ward and June Cleaver. Well,Leave It To Beaver was only a television program and that means it was only "make believe",but let's face it, fighters who tie the knot often put their wives through traumas where they want to tie that "knot" on a noose around their husbands' necks.

As Audie Aragon was making an acceptance speech on behalf of his father's induction into The West Coast Boxing Hall of Fame award ceremony,he brought some levity into his words by describing the Golden Boy's divorce trial.Audie's mom named a plethora of women Art had rolled in the sack with,including Marilyn Monroe. That induced a lot of chuckles. It also validated that Art Aragon was a stud.

I couldn't help but notice Bonnie Lopez,wife of ex feather great Danny"Little Red" Lopez.She's assuming the role of caretaker for her husband. Like Arwanda Quarry,the mom of Jerry Quarry,who positioned herself to be at her son's side at the end.It's a heartbreaking experience.

But the fans love these guys. Many of these pugs wind up broke and busted up,but the fans love these guys still.The fighter gets used up by the promoters and gets walloped by his adversaries.These young lions ride a crest of a wave and get swayed by the booze and the broads.Then father time doesn't wait for them and they still think they've got the goods ,but eventually they're sent on a road to Palookaville,but the fans still love them. The fans who wished they'd had the guts to be a fighter. The fans who vicariously live their lives through athletes who partake in the most "macho' of all the sports.The fans will sit at the bar ,drunk and sure of themselves, and toast their fallen heroes.

But when they ask the washed up fighter,whether he was a champ or a chump,if he'd do it all over again,the majority will give them the nod. They have no regrets about fighting,but ,however, often lament about how they behaved as being a husband and dad.

When Jerry Quarry passed away after battling years of dementia,they asked his wife if they should ban boxing. Her reply--"As long as there are men,there will always be boxing." And I might add,there will always be men,whether they're fighters in the ring or plopped on a bar stool, who wouldn't pass up poking Marilyn Monroe.



Charlie Parker.What alto sax player wouldn't make a pact with the devil to play with his genius?

[dagosd2000]

Possessed

Mental stability is an innocuous term. One man's perception of right and wrong can be an anathema to the other guy's point of view,but when violence and cruelty are sides to that definition you can exclude the word "stable." I see where Tony Ayala died the other day. Drug paraphernalia was located by his body.Here was a guy who was demolishing fighters like a tornado inside a fashion boutique. Like a similar destroyer by the name of Ike Ibeabuchi,Ayala was undefeated and on his way to a title,or so it seemed. But Tony,like Ike,succumbed to an opponent who didn't lace up his gloves.It was an adversary that he couldn't lick. A demon that took over after Tony let him out of the bottle by drinking what was inside it. That along with narcotics( the definition of the side effects is to relieve pain and dull the senses),but living in a drug culture since the mid 60's we know that Webster's meaning doesn't always ring true.

When Tony wasn't beating up fighters he was beating up women,forcing himself on them.The shrinks will tell you it's not an act to achieve a sexual experience,but something to do with control and domination.The Freuds of the world study guys like Ayala to achieve their PHD's. They become the experts on rape.They write books on the subject make the New York Times Best Sellers List and go on Oprah's show. Some people who are so blinded by the sport of boxing back peddle with these monsters and sympathize with their behavior because maybe they were molested by their uncle when they were a kid.

When it comes to rape it's not something I look at as being a tragedy(unless I'm thinking about the victim).Sometimes these ogres are given sort of a second chance because of their notoriety.Sometimes they don't even lose any of their popularity. Sometimes their fan base even grows larger.All I have to do is think of someone raping my daughter and any contrition on the perpetrator's part would motivate me to reach for my 38 Special.

I know and have known a lot of fighters.If my daughter had brought one home to introduce him as her fiancée,I'd probably would have had a coronary.But I never knew a pug who raped a woman.A lot of the fellas' chased skirts and sometimes would practice a combination on their wife's pan,but that was as far as it got. I'm not saying there's any justification for it.The result of such behavior was usually a messy divorce.

I wouldn't say the fighters I knew who carried on had the demons inside them like Tony Ayala. Once possessed by those compulsions I don't think there is any cure.With the way the world is going today,more and more people are not believing in trying to rehab the crazies,but put them away someplace where they can only do harm to a similar ilk.



Tony Ayala

[ral]

What a Great Post... Those cats were something else...I was in my mid 20's at the time... I followed almost every fight of theirs...Everyone of them were not afraid to stand in the middle of the ring let all lay right there...today it's a whole different game..They were all Great..losing to Napoles IMO was a loss to one of the Greats of all time Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles One of my personal favorites..Ernie went 15 rounds and I am sure the KO was no easy thing to stomach..but to go 15 with Jose is some feat in itself..I think someone should take up the cause to get these Champs (meaning at least top ranked fighters) Insurance and a sports psychologist to get thru times like this.. Right from the start and are in the black making money is when mgt should address this issue.. ..

Carlos Palomino another favorite of mine. .
Ernie and Danny always gave a 150% to their audience

[dagosd2000]

Parade

One of the festivities in Logan Heights to celebrate Martin Luther King Day was the traditional football game between the two neighborhood teams,the Ghetto Messengers and Soul Brothers Inc.I played for the Messengers. We'd play against the Soul Brothers in league play and didn't have much of a problem always beating them.In a nutshell, we had more talent. Our squad was made up of ex college and some former NFL players.The Soul Brothers were mostly high school experienced and I think most of those guys rode the bench. .They were a surly bunch though. I know they didn't like getting beat by us everytime. Both the Messengers and Soul Brothers' teams were just that---all soul brothers except for me.I was the token whitey. But I was pretty good. I'd played with a lot of the Messengers in college and felt it was quite an honor to be asked to play on their side.I started at right offensive tackle though that wasn't my one of my favorite positions. I liked the defensive side of the line.

I remember one of the games on Dr. King's birthday. The reverend had been dead for a few years. The neighborhood in Southeast San Diego was still holding up pretty good. Those were the last days before the Crips and the Bloods and crack cocaine took over.Before the game that was going to be played at Lincoln High School there was a big feast put on at Ocean View Park. Archie Moore had a stand where he was serving up his "special" fried chicken. Huffman's and Fargo's also commanded their respective barbeque stations.Ruth and Martha's(the two old gals that had their little barbeque restaurant next to Battles' Furniture near the cemetery) also had a booth.I always thought those two old ladies made the best barbeque.Many of the locals agreed too. There were plenty of groups playing everything from the Motown sound to R@B to stretchin' out jazz.Local popular residents were all at the park and then watched the game. The Powell brothers--former boxer Charlie,Ex AFL legend Art,and little bro Jerry who was MVP of the high school section football All Star Team. The local merchants,reverands,and families were all there to join the celebration. Oh,it was a festive affair! The day was sunny and bright and it certainly seemed to me to be the place to be on that day.

Well we clobbered the Soul Brothers and they were grumbling about it all through the game. I can honestly say they didn't like us(maybe me being a white guy added to the animosity).I remember a play ended on their sideline. I went over to their bench to ask if I could get a drink of water from one of their water bottles. I got a flat "no."Well screw them. We won and I was glad.

After the game some of my teammates asked if I was going to join them walking down Imperial Avenue in the parade.
"Sure,"I replied. "I tell you what. I'll walk in the back like they used to make you guys sit in the back of the bus."
That got a laugh.

As the parade strolled on along Imperial Avenue I recall one thing that stood out--- black dudes dressed like cowboys riding horses.I could tell it wasn't the first time they were on a horse.Maybe it seemed funny to me because I never thought or saw a black guy on a horse.

As I was walking along behind my teammates two little kids on Stingray bikes cut in front of me and stopped.
"Hey guys.How's it going ?,"I said smiling.
The boys had their bikes in front of me so I couldn't pass.
"What the f--k you doing here white boy?"one of them snarled.
They couldn't have been more than ten years of age.
""Hey,I'm on the Ghetto team,"I said pointing to my jersey that I still had on.
"F--k you white boy. Get the f--k out of the hood.We don't like your kind,"said the other kid.
I was dumbfounded. I didn't want to say anymore.I couldn't think of anything. They flipped me off and continued on their way.

I continued following along at the back until the parade ended.One of the Messengers approached me.
"Say Rog,we're all going over to the Dolphin to get a beer.Want to join us?"
"Sure,"I said. "I can't remember when I've had such a good time."



Dr. King

[dagosd2000]

Partial Recall

There aren't many of these sport card stores around anymore.With the economy going in the tank people don't have money to spend on sports cards. The hobby grew into a pastime for adults. Kids don't have the interest nor the dough to buy baseball cards. The vintage cards are very expensive though not as costly as they once were. But if you're interested in purchasing a graded mickey Mantle card from the 50's you can figure on shelling out a months rent. That certainly puts it out of reach for kids. Kids today are more interested in what they search for on their IPads than holding on to a piece of cardboard of some ballplayer who is older than their parents.Then when the hobby became popular in the late 80's sport companies came out of nowhere and oversaturated the market with cards.Then there were the ballplayers that got caught up in the steroid mess. The value of their cards plummeted. Back in the day there were two companies that printed cards---Topps and Bowman. Then Bowman bailed and the market was left to Topps. They printed one card of each player. But when a pack of cards with a piece of bubblegum cost a quarter, who thought a Mickey Mantle card would put a down payment on a house? I remember attaching my baseball cards with clothes pins to the spokes of my bicycle wheels to make my bike sound like a motorcycle. How could anyone do that to the Mick?

In my neighborhood there's still a sports card shop that's treading water. I go in there once in a while to take a trip down memory lane. The owner is a guy by the name of Gene Baker. Everyone calls him Bake. He lives in a trailer park with his wife. He's from back east and is around my age. His dad used to take him to the fights when he was a kid in Philly. He remembers Joey Giardello beating Sugar Ray.Bake was at ringside that night.

Bake knows I'm a boxing buff so from time to time he will give me a call and invite me over to his place to watch some of the fights he's taped. He has a huge collection of fights on VHS. The tapes are stacked wall to wall in his living room. The last time I was over there Bake broke out the snacks and asked me what I was interested in viewing.

It kind of goes along the same way.
"Well Roger,who do you want to watch?"
"Got any Jose Napoles?"
"No,I don't have him.Want to see some one punch knockouts?"
"Sure,why not."
I should know better by now. I could just play a tape of our conversation leading up to what the night's viewing is going to be.

So Bake breaks out Weaver icing Tate.The repetition begins.
"What do you think Rog?"
"That sure was something ."
Anyone else you interested in seeing?"
"How about Ruben Olivares?"
"Don't have him. How about the second Marciano /Walcott fight?"
"Sure."
After watching two minutes of that Bake's got a smile on his face.
"Rog,I've got a trivia question for you."
"Go ahead,"I said.
"Who was the fighter Marciano killed in the ring?"
"Marciano didn't kill anyone in the ring."
"Yes he did,"said Bake gloating.
"Then who was it?"
"You know the guy. He was Italian I think."
"Are you thinking of Roland LaStarza?"
"No,that's not the name."
"Carmine Vingo?"
"Yeah,that's the guy,"said Bake confidently.
"He didn't kill Vingo. He sent him to the hospital,but didn't kill him."
"You sure of that?"
"Yeah,in fact Vingo is still alive. I think he's the last opponent Marcaino fought that's still alive."
"I'll have to check on that,"said Bake reaching for another tape.
"Anyone else you want to watch?I have quite a collection."
"How about Carlos Zarate?"
"Nope,don't have him. How about the first Marciano /Walcott fight?"
"Sure."
For a guy that lives in Southern California Bake's collection of Southland fighters is a void.Bake fast forwards the tape to the 13th round.
"Are you sure that Marciano didn't kill Camine Vingo?"asked Bake as he was ejecting the tape.
"I'm pretty sure,"I answered.
"That's funny.Maybe I've got that fight in my collection."
"If you can find it,put in on. It'll be something different."


Carmine Vingo

[L.A. kidd]

I believe carmine vingo just recently passed away.

[dagosd2000]

Legal Mugging

Ed's been the day bartender at Champs for awhile now.Me? Bartending ain't my meal ticket. If they held a gun to my head though I'd take the day shift because there're aren't as many drunks,but having to wait on a bunch of drinkers isn't what I was cut out for. I've seen Ed cover the night shift and he handles it pretty well. I think being a bartender takes a special talent. It's knowing how to react to situations. You can't write a book about how to be a successful bartender.You either can handle it or you quit. You also have to be amiable enough to keep them coming back.Stern ,but amiable. I guess all bartenders are more or less on an even keel.

The other day I drifted into Champ's while Ed was opening up. He's growing a little pot around his middle and the hair is thinning on top.His pie face always has a smile. As I sat at the far end of the bar Ed drew me a draft and set it on a coaster in front of me.
"So can anyone beat this Mayweather?",he asked as he turned on the TV with the remote.
"Doesn't look that way,"I answered.
"You've got to mug this guy,"said Ed.
"What do you mean?"
"Do what Saddler did to Pep. Rough him up. Grab him,Choke him.Kick him.Hold him and hit him.Fight dirty.Don't let him get away."
"A guy who can box like Mayweather can't be beat by orthodox ways."
"Look what Angott did to Pep. He wrestled him more than fought him."
"When I saw Pacquiao stand in front of Mayweather at the start of the first roungd I knew he was in for a long night,"I said.
"You can't look for openings. You can't wait to counter punch.You can't even put pressure on. You have to grab the guy and fight dirty."
"Liston tried to fight Ali in the center of the ring,"I said.
"He couldn't have beat him that way in a thousand tries."
Ed began wiping off the bar with a towel.
"One of these days Mayweather will walk into the ring and he won't have it anymore. The reflexes will be gone.Only Father Time can beat them,"said Ed
"it happened that way with Roy Jones."
"The first to go is the legs."
"That's the way it was with Robinson and Ali."
"But I'll say this.When they lost those skills they sure showed the world they could take it."
"I wonder if it will be that way with Mayweather?"I asked.
"If he's smart ,he shouldn't fight anymore.He's got enough dough.When that time does come,he'll take a beating like the others."
"Seems though fighters never know when to stop,"I said.
"A lot of them do it for the money."
"Marciano knew."
"But I wonder how many times he thought he put on his pants too soon?"


Sandy Saddler

[ral]

Legal Mugging


"Do what Saddler did to Pep. Rough him up. Grab him,Choke him.Kick him.Hold him and hit him.Fight dirty.Don't let him get away."
"A guy who can box like Mayweather can't be beat by orthodox ways."
"Look what Angott did to Pep. He wrestled him more than fought him."
"When I saw Pacquiao stand in front of Mayweather at the start of the first roungd I knew he was in for a long night,"I said.
"You can't look for openings. You can't wait to counter punch.You can't even put pressure on. You have to grab the guy and fight dirty."
"Liston tried to fight Ali in the center of the ring,"I said.
"He couldn't have beat him that way in a thousand tries."
Ed began wiping off the bar with a towel.
"One of these days Mayweather will walk into the ring and he won't have it anymore. The reflexes will be gone.Only Father Time can beat them,"said Ed
"it happened that way with Roy Jones."
"The first to go is the legs."
"That's the way it was with Robinson and Ali."
"But I'll say this.When they lost those skills they sure showed the world they could take it."
"I wonder if it will be that way with Mayweather?"I asked.
"If he's smart ,he shouldn't fight anymore.He's got enough dough.When that time does come,he'll take a beating like the others."
"Seems though fighters never know when to stop,"I said.
"A lot of them do it for the money."
"Marciano knew."
"But I wonder how many times he thought he put on his pants too soon?"


Sandy Saddler

This Is Great..

[dagosd2000]

Legal Mugging


"Do what Saddler did to Pep. Rough him up. Grab him,Choke him.Kick him.Hold him and hit him.Fight dirty.Don't let him get away."
"A guy who can box like Mayweather can't be beat by orthodox ways."
"Look what Angott did to Pep. He wrestled him more than fought him."
"When I saw Pacquiao stand in front of Mayweather at the start of the first roungd I knew he was in for a long night,"I said.
"You can't look for openings. You can't wait to counter punch.You can't even put pressure on. You have to grab the guy and fight dirty."
"Liston tried to fight Ali in the center of the ring,"I said.
"He couldn't have beat him that way in a thousand tries."
Ed began wiping off the bar with a towel.
"One of these days Mayweather will walk into the ring and he won't have it anymore. The reflexes will be gone.Only Father Time can beat them,"said Ed
"it happened that way with Roy Jones."
"The first to go is the legs."
"That's the way it was with Robinson and Ali."
"But I'll say this.When they lost those skills they sure showed the world they could take it."
"I wonder if it will be that way with Mayweather?"I asked.
"If he's smart ,he shouldn't fight anymore.He's got enough dough.When that time does come,he'll take a beating like the others."
"Seems though fighters never know when to stop,"I said.
"A lot of them do it for the money."
"Marciano knew."
"But I wonder how many times he thought he put on his pants too soon?"


Sandy Saddler

This Is Great..

Thanks!

[L.A. kidd]

Very interesting, I've never seen the film and every account I've read has Johansson flat out as the bell rings, including the interview I read with London in the Boxing Monthly from about 6/7 years ago, which is where the quote comes from.

I've heard Henry Cooper say in person that the break between rounds in the 'torn glove' fight with Ali was 4 minutes, where the film shows it was more like 10 seconds. I guess the old saying 'never let the truth get in the way of a good story' comes to mind.

At the risk of incurring Granberry's wrath, I will report that Steve Lott did an extensive study of the video of the Cooper-Clay fight, and the break was 8 seconds.

the film may have been edited, it takes a lot longer to replace a glove than 10 secs, Dundee got away with something that night.