Shane Mcguigan documentary

[handsofstone]

I've always liked Shane,he comes across well,seems dedicated and has a good rapport with Frampton,also seems clever and a master tactician and he's quite clued up on the dieting aspect

[bripez]

Interesting point that Shane promotes himself as a jack of all trades covering all aspects of training.

Is this required?

Would a top level boxer be better off having a number of trainers? - eg. One for boxing skills and fight strategy, another who is a dietitian, another who is an expert in strength & conditioning etc. ?

Personally I would go for several people who are experts in their specific field, although this requires everybody to be open and secure of their position in the team.

[lillywhite14]

The most important trainer is the one who gets the most out of you. It's a mixture of things. The dynamic of the relationship is important. Some people have a fountain of knowledge about certain things but cannot get it across to certain types of people.

The fighter makes the trainer. Its a near enough true saying. Any trainer implying different is generally a cock.

[bripez]

The fighter makes the trainer. Its a near enough true saying. Any trainer implying different is generally a cock.

Surely a good trainer can make an average boxer good, a good boxer very good or a very good boxer great ?

Otherwise, why would boxers (and other sportspeople) have a trainer in the first place? By the time an athlete gets to a certain level, they surely know how they need to train and what they need to eat etc.

The conundrum is that the trainer is most often less successful than the person they train - in fact, top sportspeople rarely make top coaches.

[lillywhite14]

The fighter makes the trainer. Its a near enough true saying. Any trainer implying different is generally a cock.

Surely a good trainer can make an average boxer good, a good boxer very good or a very good boxer great ?

Otherwise, why would boxers (and other sportspeople) have a trainer in the first place? By the time an athlete gets to a certain level, they surely know how they need to train and what they need to eat etc.

The conundrum is that the trainer is most often less successful than the person they train - in fact, top sportspeople rarely make top coaches.

That's why I said 'it's a near enough true saying'

Of course trainers are important and a certain trainer can do wonders for an athletes ability etc

But what about well established top level trainers who don't improve a fighter? Happens all the time. Some fighters have actually regressed after moving to a new established superstar trainer. It's all about dynamic.

For someone like McGuigan to be called a good trainer he needs to bring through his own fighters, and more than one too. As already stated, Frampton was there before Shane became a part of his set up.

[cocka09]

Came across well. Was he really that good as an am? I remember him coming down with his dad to our gym to soar, he was ok but a but predictable....maybe it was an off night

The night he won the Ulster seniors was one of the worst decesions I've ever seen.

[AGM]

You can't polish a turd,

[palooka]

You can't polish a turd,

You can throw glitter on it.

[Broomhall]

Shane might prove to be a good trainer in the long run and good luck to him - but he was handed a gifted fighter who had benefitted tremendously from the hard work done by his amateur trainers and also his first series of fights under Gerry Storey as a pro. If you listened to team McGuigan you would almost think Shane introduced Carl to his first pair of gloves. OTT self promotion.

"You're only as good as the fighter you work with. I don't care how much you know, if your fighter can't fight, you're another bum in the park." Ray Arcel.

Really good post.

[Coco]

Shane might prove to be a good trainer in the long run and good luck to him - but he was handed a gifted fighter who had benefitted tremendously from the hard work done by his amateur trainers and also his first series of fights under Gerry Storey as a pro. If you listened to team McGuigan you would almost think Shane introduced Carl to his first pair of gloves. OTT self promotion.

"You're only as good as the fighter you work with. I don't care how much you know, if your fighter can't fight, you're another bum in the park." Ray Arcel.

Really good post.

X2

[James Harte]

Walk into the Wincobank gym, and tell them that the fighter makes the trainer...

[Duffus91]

Walk into the Wincobank gym, and tell them that the fighter makes the trainer...

Not really a good one to draw comparisons with on this post mate.

Brendan Ingle has taught fighters all they know; Herol Graham, Naz & Kell Brook have as far as I'm aware been training at the Wincobank all their life.
Shane's been given someone who already had the skills, and has had a lot of money thrown at him, training in some top facilities and with the benefits of all this "science" he goes into - not exactly a church hall in Sheffield with lines being drawn on the floor with chalk.

[stevieb_8006]

Walk into the Wincobank gym, and tell them that the fighter makes the trainer...

Not really a good one to draw comparisons with on this post mate.

Brendan Ingle has taught fighters all they know; Herol Graham, Naz & Kell Brook have as far as I'm aware been training at the Wincobank all their life.
Shane's been given someone who already had the skills, and has had a lot of money thrown at him, training in some top facilities and with the benefits of all this "science" he goes into - not exactly a church hall in Sheffield with lines being drawn on the floor with chalk.

I may be wrong, but I thought herol boxed in Nottingham before joining wincobank. Thus claiming to have "introduced his style" to Brendan as he's claimed in the past.

Also, and splitting hairs here, wasn't kell with Dave coldwell for a spell

[Duffus91]

I may be wrong, but I thought herol boxed in Nottingham before joining wincobank. Thus claiming to have "introduced his style" to Brendan as he's claimed in the past.

Also, and splitting hairs here, wasn't kell with Dave coldwell for a spell

I wasn't too sure about Herol, as I did mention I couldn't say for definite. I'm sure I've read that Kell has been in & around the Wincobank since he was a kid.

[Pugilist-specialist]

I may be wrong, but I thought herol boxed in Nottingham before joining wincobank. Thus claiming to have "introduced his style" to Brendan as he's claimed in the past.

Also, and splitting hairs here, wasn't kell with Dave coldwell for a spell

I wasn't too sure about Herol, as I did mention I couldn't say for definite. I'm sure I've read that Kell has been in & around the Wincobank since he was a kid.

Kell was with Coldwell for a while, from his seventh fight, I think, to after the Barrie Jones British title win.

Think it was his 9th fight Terry. He was at Wincobank from a little kid.

[Pugilist-specialist]

Walk into the Wincobank gym, and tell them that the fighter makes the trainer...

Not really a good one to draw comparisons with on this post mate.

Brendan Ingle has taught fighters all they know; Herol Graham, Naz & Kell Brook have as far as I'm aware been training at the Wincobank all their life.
Shane's been given someone who already had the skills, and has had a lot of money thrown at him, training in some top facilities and with the benefits of all this "science" he goes into - not exactly a church hall in Sheffield with lines being drawn on the floor with chalk.

I may be wrong, but I thought herol boxed in Nottingham before joining wincobank. Thus claiming to have "introduced his style" to Brendan as he's claimed in the past.

Also, and splitting hairs here, wasn't kell with Dave coldwell for a spell

It's an old subject stevie, but Herol didn't paint the lines on the floor for the footwork/switching!!

[Pugilist-specialist]

Walk into the Wincobank gym, and tell them that the fighter makes the trainer...

Not really a good one to draw comparisons with on this post mate.

Brendan Ingle has taught fighters all they know; Herol Graham, Naz & Kell Brook have as far as I'm aware been training at the Wincobank all their life.
Shane's been given someone who already had the skills, and has had a lot of money thrown at him, training in some top facilities and with the benefits of all this "science" he goes into - not exactly a church hall in Sheffield with lines being drawn on the floor with chalk.

Bit harsh on Shane - he did bring Flintoff through.

[mickey1975]

Herol was an outstanding am in Nottingham before he even met Brendan. Witter was in Bradford.