BoxRec Forum Boxing Hall of Fame- January ballots

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 17 Jan 2006, 09:26

Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:Dear friends, all my excuses for you, but, as can anyone mentioned only 25 and don't be unjust? An option is the top 50 or 70 for each one, and after the voting, to select, by quantity, the 25 with more votes

heh?

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 17 Jan 2006, 23:24

Sockdollanger,
it's easy. You see the alphabetical order of the selected fighters, and put all the times (votes) he was mentioned and proposed by each voter.
A little example:

Muhammad Ali, 99 times
Alexis Argüello, 70
Henry Armstrong, 90

and after complete the list, the 25 fighters with more votes are in the Hall of Fame. Thanks

ferroz · Post by **ferroz** » 18 Jan 2006, 00:15

I know it's lazy of me to say this but do we have to put them in alphabetical order?

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 18 Jan 2006, 03:11

ferroz wrote:I know it's lazy of me to say this but do we have to put them in alphabetical order?

Well I think kidlefty finally gave up on people putting them in alphabetical order, so I wouldn't say it's imperative. However, it would be much easier for him to tabulate the results.

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 18 Jan 2006, 03:21

Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:

Sockdollanger,
it's easy. You see the alphabetical order of the selected fighters, and put all the times (votes) he was mentioned and proposed by each voter.
A little example:

Muhammad Ali, 99 times
Alexis Argüello, 70
Henry Armstrong, 90

and after complete the list, the 25 fighters with more votes are in the Hall of Fame. Thanks

If what you are trying to say is rather than have only boxers with 75% of the votes inducted, have the top 25 vote getters inducted, I can give you an explanation to why it is better to do it the other way.

1. After the first month or two, far too many undeserving fighters would get into the hall of fame.

2. Too many fighters that are unrepresentative of the forum as a whole would be inducted. It's very plausible, extremely likely even, that if the top 25 vote getters are inducted every month, that we will have many fighters receiving less than even 50% of the total votes get in.

3. I don't mean to be an old guy here, but the main reason I like the voting process the current way is...well...it's always been that way. The rule has been since the baseball HOF opened in 1936 (give or take a year...I can't remember exactly and don't feel like looking it up) that those receiving 75% or more of the total votes are inducted into the HOF. The Hall of Fame was set up to be exclusive, not inclusive. Only the greatest fighters should be inducted in. That means very, very good fighters will be left out, and sometimes many won't like it. But the HOF is set up to honor only the greatest fighters of all-time, and the 75% rule is much more effective than the top 5, 10, 25, or however many vote getters per election at keeping the HOF exclusive.

If a fighter you particularly like doesn't get in one month, that doesn't mean he won't ever get in. If you keep voting for him, and convince other people that he deserves to be in the HOF, then he will get in eventually.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 18 Jan 2006, 07:09

iceman21287 wrote:
Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:

Sockdollanger,
it's easy. You see the alphabetical order of the selected fighters, and put all the times (votes) he was mentioned and proposed by each voter.
A little example:

Muhammad Ali, 99 times
Alexis Argüello, 70
Henry Armstrong, 90

and after complete the list, the 25 fighters with more votes are in the Hall of Fame. Thanks
If what you are trying to say is rather than have only boxers with 75% of the votes inducted, have the top 25 vote getters inducted, I can give you an explanation to why it is better to do it the other way.

1. After the first month or two, far too many undeserving fighters would get into the hall of fame.

2. Too many fighters that are unrepresentative of the forum as a whole would be inducted. It's very plausible, extremely likely even, that if the top 25 vote getters are inducted every month, that we will have many fighters receiving less than even 50% of the total votes get in.

3. I don't mean to be an old guy here, but the main reason I like the voting process the current way is...well...it's always been that way. The rule has been since the baseball HOF opened in 1936 (give or take a year...I can't remember exactly and don't feel like looking it up) that those receiving 75% or more of the total votes are inducted into the HOF. The Hall of Fame was set up to be exclusive, not inclusive. Only the greatest fighters should be inducted in. That means very, very good fighters will be left out, and sometimes many won't like it. But the HOF is set up to honor only the greatest fighters of all-time, and the 75% rule is much more effective than the top 5, 10, 25, or however many vote getters per election at keeping the HOF exclusive.

If a fighter you particularly like doesn't get in one month, that doesn't mean he won't ever get in. If you keep voting for him, and convince other people that he deserves to be in the HOF, then he will get in eventually.

Sounds like a good arguemnt to me Iceman

Cap · Post by **Cap** » 18 Jan 2006, 08:12

Let's not kid ourselves. This is really just a popularity contest, dominated by the boxers that most here favour, not necessarily the best.

Cap

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 18 Jan 2006, 15:55

Iceman21287 and Ezzard,

You are right, I only wrote an explanation for Sockdollanger who put "heh?" when I only says why 25 great fighters was little for each voter. And this was only a proposal of an option. I thinks that for me, and for you and for all, it is not easy to write the name of 25 greatest fighters, then we thinks in other 25 or 50 very good boxers too. Of course, I accept the current voting process. Thanks!

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 18 Jan 2006, 16:35

Alexis Arguello
Archie Moore
Benny Leonard
Carlos Monson
Carlos Ortiz
Eder Jofre
Ezzard Charles
Harry Greb
Henry Armstrong
Jack Dempsey
Jack Johnson
Jake La Motta
Jimmy Wilde
Joe Gans
Joe Louis
Joe Walcott
Jose Napoles
Marvin Hagler
Muhammad Ali
Salvador Sanchez
Sam Langford
Sugar Ray Robinson
Wilfredo Benitez
Wilfredo Gomez
Willie Pep

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 18 Jan 2006, 21:28

Cap wrote:Let's not kid ourselves. This is really just a popularity contest, dominated by the boxers that most here favour, not necessarily the best.

Cap

That is true to an extent, but the same can be said about the baseball HOF writers and the boxing HOF writers. How else could one explain, using a recent example, Bruce Sutter going into the hall and not Goose Gossage?

The job of the responsible poster is to be as objective as possible, but clearly it is impossible to be completely objective in something like this.

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 19 Jan 2006, 04:40

Muhammad Ali
Alexis Arguello
Henry Armstrong
Wilfredo Benitez
Ezzard Charles
Joe Gans
Wilfredo Gomez
Harry Greb
Marvin Hagler
Eder Jofre
Jack Johnson
Jake LaMotta
Joe Louis
Rocky Marciano
Archie Moore
Carlos Monzon
Ruben Olivares
Eusebio Pedroza
Willie Pep
Sugar Ray Robinson
Sandy Saddler
Salvador Sanchez
Gene Tunney
Jimmy Wilde
Carlos Zarate

kidlefty · Post by **kidlefty** » 19 Jan 2006, 05:37

Martin Sosa Cameron wrote::D :D
:D
Sockdollanger,
it's easy. You see the alphabetical order of the selected fighters, and put all the times (votes) he was mentioned and proposed by each voter.
A little example:

Muhammad Ali, 99 times
Alexis Argüello, 70
Henry Armstrong, 90

and after complete the list, the 25 fighters with more votes are in the Hall of Fame. Thanks

Not quite.

When we get to the 25th I will tally up all the votes and any that are mentioned on at least 75% of all ballots will be enshrined.

Then we'll do it all over again in February!

kidlefty · Post by **kidlefty** » 19 Jan 2006, 05:39

iceman21287 wrote:
Martin Sosa Cameron wrote::D :D
:D
Sockdollanger,
it's easy. You see the alphabetical order of the selected fighters, and put all the times (votes) he was mentioned and proposed by each voter.
A little example:

Muhammad Ali, 99 times
Alexis Argüello, 70
Henry Armstrong, 90

and after complete the list, the 25 fighters with more votes are in the Hall of Fame. Thanks
If what you are trying to say is rather than have only boxers with 75% of the votes inducted, have the top 25 vote getters inducted, I can give you an explanation to why it is better to do it the other way.

1. After the first month or two, far too many undeserving fighters would get into the hall of fame.

2. Too many fighters that are unrepresentative of the forum as a whole would be inducted. It's very plausible, extremely likely even, that if the top 25 vote getters are inducted every month, that we will have many fighters receiving less than even 50% of the total votes get in.

3. I don't mean to be an old guy here, but the main reason I like the voting process the current way is...well...it's always been that way. The rule has been since the baseball HOF opened in 1936 (give or take a year...I can't remember exactly and don't feel like looking it up) that those receiving 75% or more of the total votes are inducted into the HOF. The Hall of Fame was set up to be exclusive, not inclusive. Only the greatest fighters should be inducted in. That means very, very good fighters will be left out, and sometimes many won't like it. But the HOF is set up to honor only the greatest fighters of all-time, and the 75% rule is much more effective than the top 5, 10, 25, or however many vote getters per election at keeping the HOF exclusive.

If a fighter you particularly like doesn't get in one month, that doesn't mean he won't ever get in. If you keep voting for him, and convince other people that he deserves to be in the HOF, then he will get in eventually.

The iceman has got it exactly right!

kidlefty · Post by **kidlefty** » 19 Jan 2006, 05:40

I haven't been here in a while but I'm going to tally up all the ballots on the 25th and announce our first inductees.

Keep those ballots coming in!

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 19 Jan 2006, 07:13

jack jonhson
joe louis
willie pep
james braddock
jeff fenech
muhammad ali
sugar ray robinson
salvador sanchez
jake lamotta
ruben olivares
jack dempsey
carlos zarate
joe frazier
sandy sadler
lionel rose
eder jofre
archie moore
ezzard charles
rock marciano
carlos monzon
carme bassilio
jose napoles

i probaly left out a whole bunch of people...

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 19 Jan 2006, 07:50

kidlefty wrote:When we get to the 25th I will tally up all the votes and any that are mentioned on at least 75% of all ballots will be enshrined.

Then we'll do it all over again in February!

And just like in other sports HOF elections, in few months we'll have to have a "veterans comittee" created to elect boxers from 75+ years ago, since there seems to be few posters giving much recognition to the pioneers of the sport. Just a thought...

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 Jan 2006, 09:24

Cap wrote:Let's not kid ourselves. This is really just a popularity contest, dominated by the boxers that most here favour, not necessarily the best.

Cap

That's what a Hall of fame is.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 19 Jan 2006, 14:45

I hope that this doesn't just become a popularity contest. I certainly picked some guys that I didn't like, and didn't pick others who I liked but didn't think were as qualified. From reading the ballots so far, most seem at least realistic. There is always going to be some difference of opinion.

Hopefully the selections will be good. Hopefull biases toward eras, styles, and simply if someone happens to like or dislike particular fighters won't be too much of a problem.
The final ballots are even it yet, so it's too early to say it's just a popularity contest.
What you can do yourself is is put your own two cents in by voting and try to be informed and unbiased as you can be.

kidlefty · Post by **kidlefty** » 19 Jan 2006, 23:51

thunderfromdownunder wrote:jack jonhson
joe louis
willie pep
james braddock
jeff fenech
muhammad ali
sugar ray robinson
sugar ray lenoard
jake lamotta
ruben olivares
jack dempsey
george forman
joe frazier
sandy sadler
lionel rose
eder jofre
archie moore
ezzard charles
rock marciano
carlos monzon
carme bassilio
jose napoles

i probaly left out a whole bunch of people...

Ray Leonard isn't yet eligible. You can only vote for fighters who's last bout occured in 1995 or earlier.

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 20 Jan 2006, 00:11

opps,
that means big george isnt eligble yet either

kidlefty · Post by **kidlefty** » 21 Jan 2006, 03:05

thunderfromdownunder wrote:opps,
that means big george isnt eligble yet either :o

True,... if you want to simply edit your post you can replace them with whomever you want (as long as they're more than ten years retired).

Four days left everyone!

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 21 Jan 2006, 07:11

kidlefty wrote:
thunderfromdownunder wrote:opps,
that means big george isnt eligble yet either
True,... if you want to simply edit your post you can replace them with whomever you want (as long as they're more than ten years retired).

Four days left everyone!

Hey kid, how many ballots have been submitted so far?

kidlefty · Post by **kidlefty** » 22 Jan 2006, 13:32

iceman21287 wrote: Hey kid, how many ballots have been submitted so far?

Looks like around 22-23. That's great, I think it's enough to get a good vote. I'd like to have even more in the next few rounds, but this is a good start,... still three days to go.

kidlefty · Post by **kidlefty** » 23 Jan 2006, 23:18

Just a reminder- if you want to submit a ballot, or revise one that's already been posted, you have until the end of the day Wednesday to do so. I'll be copying all of the submitted ballots at midnight EST on 01/25. I'll try and have results posted by Thursday morning, we'll see if I can get it all done Wednesday night.

I have purposely not paid much attention to how many times people have been mentioned. I just scan the lists to make sure there aren't any ineligible nominees. It'll be exciting to see how it all shakes out!

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 26 Jan 2006, 03:32

It looks like the elections to the HOF for this month are now officially over

I know I'm personally excited about this, and it appears as if a fair amount of people besides me are too. Of course it's all just fantasy, but it's extremely fun and it can start great debates about all-time great boxers...especially the old timers, who even on this forum don't get as much thread time as they deserve.

On to the February elections! I wonder how many of my picks will wind up in the hall this month?

BoxRec Forum Boxing Hall of Fame- January ballots

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