Classic American West Coast Boxing

L.A. kidd
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by L.A. kidd »

dagosd2000 wrote:
Boxingnut wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:Nut


When Sam Giancana was a big shot with the ¨Outfit¨in Chicago,his girlfriend,Phyllis McGuire(McGuire Sisters) had a singing engagement in Sicily. Giancana,being from Naples,wouldn´t go fearing that he´d be killed.


are you sure giancana wasn't Sicilian? in the book by William brashler "the don" it states that giancana was indeed Sicilian.

also the book "the outfit" by gus russo mentions giancana as Sicilian, russo says accardo wanted giancana as boss because he was Sicilian.

also murray Humphries always thought giancana was Sicilian, mentioning that "giancana and all his Sicilians always had the final word"
ral
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by ral »

L.A. kidd wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:Nut


When Sam Giancana was a big shot with the ¨Outfit¨in Chicago,his girlfriend,Phyllis McGuire(McGuire Sisters) had a singing engagement in Sicily. Giancana,being from Naples,wouldn´t go fearing that he´d be killed.


are you sure giancana wasn't Sicilian? in the book by William brashler "the don" it states that giancana was indeed Sicilian.

also the book "the outfit" by gus russo mentions giancana as Sicilian, russo says accardo wanted giancana as boss because he was Sicilian.

also murray Humphries always thought giancana was Sicilian, mentioning that "giancana and all his Sicilians always had the final word"[/quote]


Sometimes these are a maze of, one person says this, one person says that etc etc.. I just went thru this whole ordeal with the research on my fathers time in boxing and my grandfather..
Finally thru the help of a lot of people on this site and elsewhere I got what I wanted. I do believe there more to this story but we've got enough to make the case stand...In the case above couldn't someone do a genealogy search on Giancana and nail it down? I had to do this, 2 yrs worth of research to get this story altogether.. Countless hours.. Almost done Thank God...Much respect to the pro writers out on this site and others who do Research for Boxing etc...Quite a task...
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Giancana was born in Sicily but was closer to the Neoploitans.My grandfather,Diamond Joe Esposito,was from Naples and gave Gianxcana his start. Neoploitans and Sicilians "blended " together in the Outfit in Chicago and the Syndicate in New York. In Italy it was territorial. Sophia Loren was born in Rome,but gre up in Naples and thinks of herself as being "Napolitan." My father read Brashler's book and said it was "a bunch of crap."Mob guys don't take much credence about writers who were on the "outside" writing about what went inside the Mafia. My father also read Chuckie Giancana's book about his uncle any father hated it.

I never was a Mob guy like my father and certainly never had the power like my grandfather,but everyday I'd hear my father tell those stories. How much was BS I don't know. Writers who go to other Mob guys for information probably get told a lot of made up stuff.

My grandfather wound up murdered. My father's life was ruined by that "life." there are too many Italians that after watching movies like The Godfather and Goodfellas that want to identify with those gangsters. Like too many of the kids today that emulate the "gangstas".

Ask the wives and mothers of criminals and they'll tell you the story. My mother HATED the way my father carried himself. At the end ,when my father took stock of his life,he talked more about being a Marine at Okinawa in WW2.Mae Capone never let her son become a thug like her husband.But I guess ,like the aura of fighters,as long as there are men,there is that alluring attraction to violence.
ral
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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dagosd2000 wrote: I never was a Mob guy like my father and certainly never had the power like my grandfather,but everyday I'd hear my father tell those stories. How much was BS I don't know. Writers who go to other Mob guys for information probably get told a lot of made up stuff.

My grandfather wound up murdered. My father's life was ruined by that "life." there are too many Italians that after watching movies like The Godfather and Goodfellas that want to identify with those gangsters. Like too many of the kids today that emulate the "gangstas".
Fascinating material here,, yes not the greatest career choice for a long happy family Life.. I have a bit of this history in my family. In my case my father and mother both turned things around mother much later in life...A positive moment when someone like my Pop Stan Levey to end up with everything squared up....

I was always was proud about that side of him...and actually my step mother Angela who was 1/2 Sicilian and 1/2 Irish Catholic who helped him immensely turn things around..my grandfather Dave Levy, Levey, died of a bullet wound to the temple. Dad was never quite sure on this one.. the report said self inflicted. There was no autopsy report and the report looks like it had been tampered with...I only could find a very small Obit on it with the D.C. Stan always thought it could have been a hit but I'm not sure I will ever know..but either way it is no kind of life for anyone..The kids well the the stuff that they are exposed to and who the quote unquote is makin the Big Money on that's a lengthy discussion ...
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Image

The headline in the Chicago American regarding the assassination of my grandfather. My father always said that if his father had lived his life would have been turned out for the best. I'm tellin' ya,everyday hearing stories going back more than 60 years was surreal. My father should have buckled down and written a story about his father.But like most of those ex Mob guys he'd rather sit around and just talk about it.You can't make an excuse that if "only my father had lived" life would have been better. One of the major problems with guys who have lived that "life" is that when it's over they don't want to work a 9 to 5 job for a stranger.Like MacArthur,they just fade away. :cry:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Image




Image


Image

More of the aftermath.My father in the lower left photo with Tony"Mops"Volpe.Yeah,I'm sure my dad was very happy.How about the middle shot. Imagen,my grandmother is going to kill too. :lol:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Image

Here's my favorite. Nobody saw nothin'. :lol:
ral
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Heavy Heavy stuff.. For some reason Pop was able to look it straight square in the face and see the handwriting on the wall plus being gifted with incredible timing in life and on the drums he had the wisdom, tenacity and strength to follow thru..Maybe this had to do,with instinct, I don't really know..He was never ever impressed with himself or his accomplishments in life and he had many, especially being a white Jewish kid out of North Philly, son of a used car salesman/fight Mgr/Promotor and being a legend at a very early age playing with all the hip Black Cats of the day, Bird, Diz, Miles Milt, Ray Brown,Dexter etc etc.

He got in quite a bit of trouble as a young man before and while playing with These astounding musicians and all the rest. and as a result had close to 2 yrs to really think about his life.. He did, & the rest is in the Jazz History Books. Smithsonian, Library of Congress,etc etc. you name it, its in there.. Never being into the Show Biz thing when it was his time to pass the Torch, he did so Graciously and took his lumps..he had been doing commercial Photography for many many years, for Sinatra, Ella and many of the Greats..so after having played in their orchestras/bands they all trusted him and loved him and his work in both idioms, so Photography morfed into his next career.. Charlie Watts (big fan) interviewed him at Stan and Angela's house for close to a whole day..The next day Charlie sent a Limo to the house to pick him up and bring him to the Stones Concert.. Stan was backstage with them all and was proud that they all knew about his career and talked to him more than they
Did Presdent Clinton..
Charlie asked him "So Stan, after having such a long successful career in Music and your last movie being
Rossemaries Baby before hangin them up, was it easy just to put the Sticks and Mallets down and Never pick them up again?" Pops reply was "It was easy, the music was changing and I had played with all of my heroes so I just put a dime in the phone booth and made my first call and that was it". He really had very little ego about all of this, his family came first..Period!!!

Not a self severing person but more of a God Gifted man. When he got off the Road after a 2 year stint with the Stan Kenton Orchestra he set up camp on the West Coast with Angela in Hermosa Beach and started playing at The LighteHouse.. My love for Boxing started at a very young age..
L.A. kidd
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by L.A. kidd »

dagosd2000 wrote:Image

Here's my favorite. Nobody saw nothin'. :lol:


dagos, I know where you are coming from... I am on a site called bb gangster and we discuss the mob, and there are a lot of researchers on there. especially from Chicago, most people don't realize how powerfull the Chicago outfit really was, and I don't know if we have come to grips

with how much influence they had in Hollywood, and the major trade unions, it boggles the mind,

I think you would enjoy the site bb gangster, the people would love to have you.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

L.A. kidd wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:Image

Here's my favorite. Nobody saw nothin'. :lol:


dagos, I know where you are coming from... I am on a site called bb gangster and we discuss the mob, and there are a lot of researchers on there. especially from Chicago, most people don't realize how powerfull the Chicago outfit really was, and I don't know if we have come to grips

with how much influence they had in Hollywood, and the major trade unions, it boggles the mind,

I think you would enjoy the site bb gangster, the people would love to have you.
Thanks Bob,but I'm comfortable here.Discussing those guys is something that is more and more removed from me ever since my father passed away almost 20 years ago. Frank Nitti tried to muscle into Hollywood controlling the unions within the studios.One thing I think the Chicago Outfit didn't realize was that the "Oakie" cops who settled on the West Coast didn't want to let a bunch of greaseballs run things in Los Angeles like they did in Chicago.Eventually, the FBI got a couple of Outfit guys to roll over.Since Nitti brought them to the coast it sealed his fate. Always considered a buffoon,Nitti had no choice but to face the consequences. Nicknamed "The Enforcer",he was told by Paul Ricca and other "made guys" about how did he want to get it. Nitti decided to commit suicide. At the train station in the suburb of Riverside,he waved a gun at an incoming train to draw attention of the passengers. He then blew his brains out.

The Outfit ran the rackets in Chicago and skimmed from the casinos in Vegas. What they amassed is nothing to what's going on with organized crime today. With the advent of drugs(something those Outfit guys didn't feel comfortable with and didn't have the experience),what really boggles the mind is the billions of dollars that are made with the cartels south of the border being overseen and protected by the United States government.When George H. W. Bush was asked about what went down with Iran/Contra,he said that" if the public knew they would run us down in the streets and hang us from lamp posts."
Last edited by dagosd2000 on 16 Jun 2015, 00:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Brian,if you're out there. CONGRATULATIONS BLACKHAWKS :yay:

My pal,Brian Higgins,head of security for the Stanley Cup champs---The Chicago Blackhawks


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ral
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by ral »

I actually didn't write this quote looks like the L.A. kidd.. "I didn't see nothing" if I did somehow copy and paste it my apologies and maybe the L.A.. kidd is a Bob too ???
dagosd2000 wrote:
L.A. kidd wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:Image

Here's my favorite. Nobody saw nothin'. :lol:


dagos, I know where you are coming from... I am on a site called bb gangster and we discuss the mob, and there are a lot of researchers on there. especially from Chicago, most people don't realize how powerfull the Chicago outfit really was, and I don't know if we have come to grips

with how much influence they had in Hollywood, and the major trade unions, it boggles the mind,

I think you would enjoy the site bb gangster, the people would love to have you.
Thanks Bob,but I'm comfortable here.Discussing those guys is something that is more and more removed from me ever since my father passed away almost 20 years ago. Frank Nitti tried to muscle into Hollywood controlling the unions within the studios.One thing I think the Chicago Outfit didn't realize was that the "Oakie" cops who settled on the West Coast didn't want to let a bunch of greaseballs run things in Los Angeles like they did in Chicago.Eventually, the FBI got a couple of Outfit guys to roll over.Since Nitti brought them to the coast it sealed his fate. Always considered a buffoon,Nitti had no choice but to face the consequences. Nicknamed "The Enforcer",he was told by Paul Ricca and other "made guys" about how did he want to get it. Nitti decided to commit suicide. At the train station in the suburb of Riverside,he waved a gun at an incoming train to draw attention of the passengers. He then blew his brains out.

The Outfit ran the rackets in Chicago and skimmed from the casinos in Vegas. What they amassed is nothing to what's going on with organized crime today. With the advent of drugs(something those Outfit guys didn't feel comfortable with and didn't have the experience),what really boggles the mind is the billions of dollars that are made with the cartels south of the border being overseen and protected by the United States government.When George W. Bush was asked about what went down with Iran/Contra,he said that" if the public knew they would run us down in the streets and hang us from lamp posts."
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Sorry Bob. I stand corrected. L.A. Kidd,I'll give you a good Frank Nitti story. After my grandfather was killed, Al Capone asked my grandmother if my father could live in his house. My father lived with the Capone family and was pals with Al's son,Al JR.(Sonny Capone).When Capone was indicted on income tax evasion charges Frank Nitti, who had previously served time on the tax rap, wanted to talk to Capone's lawyers at Al's house. Nitti arranged it so Al was not there. Capone's lawyers told Nitti that they could spread enough money around so they could get a hung jury.Nitti told the lawyers that Capone had venereal disease and that he'd become worthless to the Mob. He told the lawyers to sell him out. Nitti wanted to take over.

My father ,who was just a young teen,was sitting in the parlor and overheard the conversation. Nitti saw my father in the parlor. He went over to him and threw him against the wall and told him that he'd kill him if he repeated what was said. My father didn't repeat telling of that episode until he was discharged from the Marines after WWII and Capone was dead.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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That's what I respect about some of them, not all but some, the ones that were stand up guys no matter what..some were snitches and rats some didn't no the difference from killing, eating or goin to the head...there was a certain eliminate was way more noble than the people that walk around with an aura of respectability but were worse than the connected ones...

***One question I have is how do I upload some newspaper clips I have to the forum? I did go thru the question / search file and could not find anything specific...
I am getting down to the wire on my research. but still only have about 80% and would like to get to the finish line with a bit more. I think it would be better for me to upload clips and then ask questions based on those..

Yes, No, Maybe

Thanks
ral
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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ral wrote:That's what I respect about some of them, not all but some, the ones that were stand up guys no matter what..some were snitches and rats some didn't no the difference from killing, eating or goin to the head...there was a certain eliminate was way more noble than the people that walk around with an aura of respectability but were worse than the connected ones...

***One question I have is how do I upload some newspaper clips I have to the forum? I did go thru the question / search file and could not find anything specific...
I am getting down to the wire on my research. but still only have about 80% and would like to get to the finish line with a bit more. I think it would be better for me to upload clips and then ask questions based on those..

Yes, No, Maybe

Thanks
ral
If you want to post pictures on the site,go to the website Tinypic. That's what I use. Roger
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by ral »

dagosd2000 wrote:
ral wrote:That's what I respect about some of them, not all but some, the ones that were stand up guys no matter what..some were snitches and rats some didn't no the difference from killing, eating or goin to the head...there was a certain eliminate was way more noble than the people that walk around with an aura of respectability but were worse than the connected ones...

***One question I have is how do I upload some newspaper clips I have to the forum? I did go thru the question / search file and could not find anything specific...
I am getting down to the wire on my research. but still only have about 80% and would like to get to the finish line with a bit more. I think it would be better for me to upload clips and then ask questions based on those..

Yes, No, Maybe

Thanks
ral
If you want to post pictures on the site,go to the website Tinypic. That's what I use. Roger
In one of my posts last I said I respected some of the qualities in in the Guys who were connected...I have been thinkin a bit about it and what I was referring to and paralleling Boxers. They Most are stand up guys not perfect or Saints but they are ready to suffer win loose or draw..there is some quite remarkable about that to me..
Thanks Roger
Bob
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Bob,
Keep this in mind though about Mob guys. To draw a parallel between Mob guys and fighters ,to me,is a stretch. Mobsters are doing illegal things. Fighters are not. In order to move up in the rankings as a fighter you beat the guy ahead of you. With the Mob,in order to move up,you shoot the guy ahead of you,and that guy might have been your best friend. With the advent of the Rico law an ex con,just talking to another gangster could put him away for life.That's when they start singing like canaries.There are very few stand up guys in the Mob,but I have an interesting story to go with that. My aunt(my mother's sister) used to go out with one of the Genna brothers back in Chicago. I think it was Tony. Her family was dead set against it,but the relationship didn't last long. Tony was gunned down in the street in a hit. As he was dying,the cop bent over and asked him who shot him.Tony motioned the cop to come closer,kicked him in the face,and then died. Nice touch. :lol:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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According to his obituary in today's edition of the Los Angeles Times, Kirk Kerkorian, the billionaire, had some success as an amateur boxer as a youngster, but it was felt that he wasn't "quite big or fast enough to make it as a pro." Omitted from the obituary was the fact that his older brother, Nish Kirkorian, boxed as a middleweight in the professional ranks during the early 1930s.

- Chuck Johnston
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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The Mystic Knight Of The Sea

Before there was Little League. Before there was Pop Warner Football and youth soccer associations,a boy could find some kind of organized athletic activity at the local boxing gym.The boys of my father's generation, at one time or another, made there way inside those smelly dank quarters and put on the gloves.

It wasn't necessarily a quest to become a champion fighter ,or even a contender, or even wanting to become a fighter,amateur or professional.It was just something boys did because of their sex and hormonal makeup. They were prone to fight.You fought to learn how to protect yourself. And you fought with your fists.You battled your opponent one on one.It was a fair fight. No weapons.When the other guy had had enough, it was over.Today,police blotters are strewn with kids dead in the morgue riddled with bullets.

Boxing was even a part of many physical education classes.Before World War II many coaches at school were also teaching the art of self defense to pro fighters. Gil Clancy ,who handled Emile Griffith, was asked to bring the future welterweight and middleweight champ up through the ranks. Clancy was a phys ed teacher in New York City at the time he was approached by Griffith's camp.

We can look back at the celebrities who laced up the gloves in their youth and then realized that boxing was for the more dedicated. Bob Hope(alias Packy East),Lou Costello(who fought by the monker,Lou King),and Ryan ONeal(who had quite an impressive amateur career) were three good examples.I'm sure you guys could add on dozens of more names. But My favorite,and most interesting former pug ,was Tim Moore. Tim Moore who played the Kingfish on the old Amos and Andy TV show.Some say he was like the Kingfish in real life,always scufflin'. He was a fighter around the turn of the century. I've heard he used the name of "Young Jack Johnson. I've seen it written down that he was "Klondike."The myth seekers say he was the "Klondike"that beat the "real" Jack Johnson,but that was "Klondike" Haines.When I watch those grainy black and white episodes on the television, it's hard for me to visualize the Kingfish stepping inside the ring.And to think that he's connected with some well wishers with beating Jack Johnson.But Jack Johnson was fighting exhibitions well into his 50's with some of the fellas he did battle with when the Galveston Giant was king of the world.Lil' Arthur's body had shown the wear of time just like Tim Moore's.

The NAACP berated the local TV stations for airing those old Amos and Andys. It was a demeaning portrayal of Black Americans they said. But what I couldn't figure was Redd Foxx's role as Fred Sanford could have been related to George "Kingfish" Stevens. They both were a couple of crafty guys always looking for an angle to get ahead.And they certainly couldn't have been mistaken for Sidney Poitier,but they were a hell of a lot funnier.

But I bought those old Amos and Andys on Amazon. I have them on tape. I loved the mystical choral theme song and the the New York City skyline in the backround at the beginning and end of each program. I love gullable Andy who in the end figures out a way to turn the tables on Kingfish. I love Amos,the honest family man who drives for the Sunshine Cab Company.There's Calhoun,the disbarred lawyer. Lightnin' the custodian at the lodge. Sapphire and her mama who are riding the Kingfish to go out and get a job. Film noir in TV land. That old show was a classic. I don't care what NAACP .


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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Will be leaving for the land of the spaghetti eaters Monday for two weeks. I've always wanted to visit my grandfather's hometown,Acerra,Italy---ground zero for the Camorra.If I don't make it back,it was nice knowing you guys. :lol:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Have fun, Rog. You deserve it. Your Spanish will come in handy.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Have a fun vacation in the land of your ancestors, Roger. It is my understanding that Italy is a great place to visit.

- Chuck Johnston
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by ral »

Hope its a Great 1..thanks for all the help

Bob
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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See Naples And Die

First of all I want to thank my friends for wishing the wife and I a nice trip.

I was watching an old Victory At Sea episode about the allies fighting the Germans in Italy. Turned out the Italians didn't have any stomach for fighting the GI's and the British so Hitler had to divert troops he had fighting the Russians on the Eastern Front and deploy them to do battle in Italy.The Nazis might have had a chance if Mussolini would have joined up with the allies instead of the Germans. He did them more harm than good for the Third Reich. Hitler had to come to his rescue in Greece,then North Africa,and finally fighting their fight in their home country.

What stuck out in my mind watching the episode of the Italian campaign was a something the narrator,Leonard Graves, said.(Didn't he have a great voice for that Victory At Sea series?).He said that when the allies entered Naples they were in a city where someone had said"See Naples and die."

I know that wasn't a literal context.Not like the Mafia shoots you in the back of the head. I knew it had to do about something that caught the imagination of someone visiting there that believed that once you felt the ambiance of Naples you'd seen everything,and then you could die in peace.I did a little digging and that's what it was. Some adventurer back in the 16th century thought that Naples, Italy was the most enchanting place on Earth.Maybe back then it was.There was no Italy then.Naples was one of those kingdoms that flourished with trading on the Mediterranean.

I've been to Naples a couple of times.Not for very long. The Renaissance didn't reach that far down the boot.There's no Trevi Fountain or Saint Peters. So when I think of seeing Naples and dying,I know what it really means. I know because I know myself. My blood line goes back to that city. I know how Neoploiltrans act. The moods and way they express themselves. The passion and the pitfalls.A region that's steeped in superstition that is like a curse. No matter how hard a Neoploitan would want to change,he can't. It's impossible. There's too much emotion and impulse to make a rational decision. As much as those Olympian heights can make one feel unequaled ,the fall from that mount can bring the lowest depths of misery.

But Neoploitans have relished in the idea that" it is what it is", and they live with it. They believe they are exceptional to Italy. They have more Italianess in them that the rest of Italy. "I'm Neopolitan ,not so much an Italian."It's a bravado that they are proud of, yet it is an exclusive club.Living with my father showed me that.




I remember once that Pavarotti's voice cracked at La Scala in Milan.The balcony threw tomatoes at him. He was hurt and needed to prove himself again. He decided to make his comeback in Naples. "The Neoplitans appreciate singing,"he said.He knew if they stood on their feet in Naples,he was on his way back.

During the ride to the Teatro De San Carlo, Pavoratti was struggling with some phrasing with one the arias. He asked the cab driver how the song should be sung. The cabbie then went into the rendition singing with a terrible voice ,but with a rush of confidence and emotion.
"That's it!"exclaimed the big guy. "That's the way it should be sung."
The cab driver wasn't star struck. He was a"Napolitan".He knew how the song went.He humbled the biggest" ham "in the world, Pavoratti.

Pavoratti was once asked if there was any political solution to Italy.
"No",he quickly responded. "If you put ten Italians in room and then said I'll be back in an hour for you to decide who is to be your leader,they would all fight and no one would be selected."
That sums it up for me. "See Naples and die"? The bitter sweetness of having your ancestors come from there with their blood running through your veins makes you understand.


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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by L.A. kidd »

hey guys, was it alehandro lavorante that killed a guy, [the guy was on a machine for I don't know how long] or was it lavorante that got hurt.

no man, im not a bob.
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