Andre Ward has poor rating on BET

[ikorolev]

At SMW, Ward had size advantage over most of his opponents. He loses it at LHW. I doubt that Kovalev would allow him to clinch much, and Beterbiev would just destroy him if he tries to clinch.

[diddy]

So let's recap here.

GGG the Kazakhstanian wouldn't suffer a size handicap moving up a division to fight Ward.

But Ward would suffer a size handicap moving up a division to fight Kova and Artur, 2 Russians.

Ok. Got it.

[Bard of Boxrec]

The styles matchup means that Ward's size advantage over GGG would be irrelevant. Even with the few pounds deficit, GGG still forces the action, dictates the pace, lands hard punches and makes Ward fight every second of every round. Which he doesn't normally do.

While Kov's size advantage over Ward would be just another reason why Kov beats Ward. Not that he needs that particular advantage.

[jamesmcdonnell]

At SMW, Ward had size advantage over most of his opponents. He loses it at LHW. I doubt that Kovalev would allow him to clinch much, and Beterbiev would just destroy him if he tries to clinch.

I wouldn't say he had size advantage - what makes him bigger than most of the other 168 lbers - ? He's certainly not the tallest, nor has the longest reach. Green, Froch, Dawson, and Edwin Rodriguez, were all bigger men.

[jamesmcdonnell]

The styles matchup means that Ward's size advantage over GGG would be irrelevant. Even with the few pounds deficit, GGG still forces the action, dictates the pace, lands hard punches and makes Ward fight every second of every round. Which he doesn't normally do.

While Kov's size advantage over Ward would be just another reason why Kov beats Ward. Not that he needs that particular advantage.

]

What makes you think Ward would allow him to dictate the pace? He's never allowed any other fighter to do that. Froch and Kessler both were unable to put Ward under any sustained pressure.

[Counter-puncher]

Ward along with Wlad K is a fighter Riddick is shall we say unable to view in a wholly unbiased light.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Ward along with Wlad K is a fighter Riddick is shall we say unable to view in a wholly unbiased light.

That seems clear.

Size difference is always going to be relevant, how relevant, varies from fight to fight, but to imply that GGG will have no problems dealing with a guy who is bigger than the men he is used to facing, is spurious at best.

[Counter-puncher]

yeah, size difference is never going to be a factor when one fighter is known for tying up frequently and doing a lot of mauling. can't see how weighing say 10lbs heavier naturally might possibly impact, there.

oh but wait, he won't be able to do that, (insert 'GGG cuts the ring off like no fighter in history' argument here)

[Bard of Boxrec]

The styles matchup means that Ward's size advantage over GGG would be irrelevant. Even with the few pounds deficit, GGG still forces the action, dictates the pace, lands hard punches and makes Ward fight every second of every round. Which he doesn't normally do.

While Kov's size advantage over Ward would be just another reason why Kov beats Ward. Not that he needs that particular advantage.

]

What makes you think Ward would allow him to dictate the pace? He's never allowed any other fighter to do that. Froch and Kessler both were unable to put Ward under any sustained pressure.

I don't think it's about 'allowing' him to do anything. Ward would be forced to fight at G's pace. He doesn't have the punch to make G think twice about coming in. Froch and Kessler aren't the natural pressure fighters that G is. Froch proved slow and immobile vs Ward's arsenal and Kessler, aside from being ripped to shreds by Ward's headbutting, is the sort of box-puncher who waited just long enough, and wasn't effectual on the inside, for Ward to be comfortable in the fight.

[Bard of Boxrec]

yeah, size difference is never going to be a factor when one fighter is known for tying up frequently and doing a lot of mauling. can't see how weighing say 10lbs heavier naturally might possibly impact, there.

oh but wait, he won't be able to do that, (insert 'GGG cuts the ring off like no fighter in history' argument here)

Nope, never made that argument you attributed to me.

You see weight advantage when he mauls. I see GGG ripping Ward with short shots on the inside like noone else has and Ward not being able to handle it.

For the record Ward probably beats everyone 175 and down other than GGG and kovalev. Hmmm. Maybe Beterbiev...

[ikorolev]

GGG's optimal distance is middle. He is not as effective/powerful inside which is why excessive clinching by a bigger fighter will be a problem.

[ikorolev]

At SMW, Ward had size advantage over most of his opponents. He loses it at LHW. I doubt that Kovalev would allow him to clinch much, and Beterbiev would just destroy him if he tries to clinch.

I wouldn't say he had size advantage - what makes him bigger than most of the other 168 lbers - ? He's certainly not the tallest, nor has the longest reach. Green, Froch, Dawson, and Edwin Rodriguez, were all bigger men.

Froch is definitely smaller. He walks under 175. Ward rehydrates at over 180.

[jamesmcdonnell]

The styles matchup means that Ward's size advantage over GGG would be irrelevant. Even with the few pounds deficit, GGG still forces the action, dictates the pace, lands hard punches and makes Ward fight every second of every round. Which he doesn't normally do.

While Kov's size advantage over Ward would be just another reason why Kov beats Ward. Not that he needs that particular advantage.

]

What makes you think Ward would allow him to dictate the pace? He's never allowed any other fighter to do that. Froch and Kessler both were unable to put Ward under any sustained pressure.

I don't think it's about 'allowing' him to do anything. Ward would be forced to fight at G's pace. He doesn't have the punch to make G think twice about coming in. Froch and Kessler aren't the natural pressure fighters that G is. Froch proved slow and immobile vs Ward's arsenal and Kessler, aside from being ripped to shreds by Ward's headbutting, is the sort of box-puncher who waited just long enough, and wasn't effectual on the inside, for Ward to be comfortable in the fight.

So you cannot envisage ward using his footwork, feints and inside work to negate GGG?

I can envisage this scenario - whilst GGG might be able to put Ward under some pressure, you make it sound like Ward would have absolutely no say in the matter - I remind you of the level of competition GGG has fought - it's easy to look impressive and unstoppable against this level of opponent.

I'd like to see GGG in with someone like Cotto - I'd expect Cotto to lose, but I would also expect him to give GGG some trouble early on, though ultimately get stopped.

[jamesmcdonnell]

At SMW, Ward had size advantage over most of his opponents. He loses it at LHW. I doubt that Kovalev would allow him to clinch much, and Beterbiev would just destroy him if he tries to clinch.

I wouldn't say he had size advantage - what makes him bigger than most of the other 168 lbers - ? He's certainly not the tallest, nor has the longest reach. Green, Froch, Dawson, and Edwin Rodriguez, were all bigger men.

Froch is definitely smaller. He walks under 175. Ward rehydrates at over 180.

Froch is also taller with a longer reach, so he's not 'SMALLER' than Ward.

[Counter-puncher]

Weight/frame simply mean two different ways of defining big/not big

[jamesmcdonnell]

Weight/frame simply mean two different ways of defining big/not big

I agree, but to imply Froch is the smaller man against Ward when he has a larger frame, is rather misleading. Also, although I have heard that Froch walks around at his fighting Weight, that is because he is pretty much always staying in shape, even when there's not a fight announced yet. Very few fighters live that kind of life any more. Hopkins is another who does, and he was walking around near his fighting weight as I recall.

There's weight and useful weight, unfortunately, Ward had both against Froch, he has great inside wrestling skills, and is very physically strong to boot, which really caused Froch untold problems, as he couldn't maul his way in to impose himself, and couldn't dominate from the outside.

I think people don't realise how special Ward is, he doesn't have a style I enjoy to watch, but boy is he skilled. There's few fighters around in a given generation with the gifts and application he has.

[Counter-puncher]

I think people don't realise how special Ward is, he doesn't have a style I enjoy to watch, but boy is he skilled. There's few fighters around in a given generation with the gifts and application he has.

Oh, agreed.

[BAD INTENTIONS]

I think people don't realise how special Ward is, he doesn't have a style I enjoy to watch, but boy is he skilled. There's few fighters around in a given generation with the gifts and application he has.

Oh, agreed.

Been saying that since he shut me up in the Kessler fight ... 2009 ... some people still haven't come around.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I think people don't realise how special Ward is, he doesn't have a style I enjoy to watch, but boy is he skilled. There's few fighters around in a given generation with the gifts and application he has.

Oh, agreed.

Been saying that since he shut me up in the Kessler fight ... 2009 ... some people still haven't come around.

I find it pretty incredible that this and the Froch performance haven't made it clear to people just how good Ward is. I mean, it's one thing to beat those two men, but to dominate them with such ease really is pretty spectacular. Both men are incredibly tough competitors who have never come close to being dominated - one might say Taylor against Froch, but we saw how that ended.

Funnily enough, Ward first came to my attention via a book called 'A fighters heart' which I can thoroughly recommend.

The author spends time with Andre Ward, around the time he is first turning Pro, and he waxes lyrical about his complete and utter focus, dedication and incredible physical gifts.

From that point on I was waiting to hear about him - and started following him - it's been disappointing that he lost 18 months of his prime - and I really hope that the remainder of his career - which could well be another 4-5 years or more with his style and lack of wear and tear - is as stellar as his abilities.

[Counter-puncher]

Funnily enough, Ward first came to my attention via a book called 'A fighters heart' which I can thoroughly recommend.

The author spends time with Andre Ward, around the time he is first turning Pro, and he waxes lyrical about his complete and utter focus, dedication and incredible physical gifts.

i remember that, remember Hunter/Ward had a very impressively cerebral approach to training and fighting.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Funnily enough, Ward first came to my attention via a book called 'A fighters heart' which I can thoroughly recommend.

The author spends time with Andre Ward, around the time he is first turning Pro, and he waxes lyrical about his complete and utter focus, dedication and incredible physical gifts.

i remember that, remember Hunter/Ward had a very impressively cerebral approach to training and fighting.

Is he still with the same trainer?

[caldo2025]

[/quote]

I'd strongly advise against a career in professional gambling if you give him 6% chance of winning the fight.

Ward has fought a far better level of opposition than GGG at this stage, Kessler and Froch trump anything on GGG's resume, and he dominated them with ease.

GGG hasn't fought even once at 168, and yet you give the top guy at 168 a 6% chance of winning.

I'll gladly take your odds. Should they ever fight, I suggest you back up your strong words with money, and we can have a bet at those odds mano a mano.

Nobody is raving over a win over Smith - they are raving over his body of work to date, and the ease with which he dominated Kessler and Ward, two men who prior to that had never been dominated by anybody.

You clearly have a serious hard on for GGG - I suggest you douse your member in ice cold water before approaching any betting shops.[/quote]

Thanks for being my gambling advisor but i don't think that we will ever have to worry about this one because Ward won't ever sign the dotted line with this animal. I saw the boxers meeting where GGG challenged Ward in front of the whole crew and i saw Ward shrink back in his shell. Now he's coming out saying that GGG is not taking a fight with him. The guy is delusional so that's probably why he appeals to you so much.

Froch and Kessler are all of sudden elite fighters and Wards claim to fame? That's a riot. These guys are great European fighters but not great world class fighters. What do you think GGG would have done to both of those guys in their prime and even up at 168? Knockouts, both of them. A big reason why Froch is never taking the GGG fight. GGG has given into all of his demands and he still won't take the fight.

What's pathetic is that you are one of those guys blaming GGG for his resume when NO ONE will fight him, even your love toy Ward. They guy is knocking everyone out. What about Murray, Geale or Macklin? Probably a few of your hero's at one time...all wipeout knockouts. Anyone of those guys would give Froch and Kessler all they could handle.

What we are seeing right now with GGG is special stuff. It's Mike Tyson type stuff and instead of appreciating it, you have to tear the only guy trying to make great fights for the fans. Why is that? We should embrace boxers like GGG who clearly say they'll take anyone on anywhere. This is a rare talent and he can't get a fight and it's because people like you pat Ward on the back for fighting a truck driver as his only fight in 2 years. Pathetic. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[caldo2025]

I'll take those odds in a heartbeat and so would any intelligent bettor.

If Ward took at least 2 more fights so dissolve any rust, and the bout was held at 168, Ward would be a 2-1 favorite.
Quoting 15-1 odds favoring the Russian is insane...like making Pacquiao a 15-1 choice over Mayweather in a rematch.

Where do people come up with these things?

I don't care what the odds in Vegas will show, my opinion is that Ward has one chance in fifteen of beating GGG. That's what I was referring to with my comment. Ward is one of the most overrated boxers i've ever seen. Who has he really fought? The Super 6 tournament consisted of good fighters, not elite fighters. Ward doesn't have knockout power and GGG's chin is ridiculous. Ward would have to fight 180 seconds of every single round and that pace is impossible to keep.

The sad part is that people like you don't see anything wrong with a champion not defending his title for almost two years and when he finally comes back, he fights a chump like Smith and you go all gaga about how great he is. Not me. Ward should stay in booth calling fights instead of inside it fighting garbage and jumping on the ring posts after with his hands up like he did something great.[/quote]

I'd strongly advise against a career in professional gambling if you give him 6% chance of winning the fight.

Ward has fought a far better level of opposition than GGG at this stage, Kessler and Froch trump anything on GGG's resume, and he dominated them with ease.

GGG hasn't fought even once at 168, and yet you give the top guy at 168 a 6% chance of winning.

I'll gladly take your odds. Should they ever fight, I suggest you back up your strong words with money, and we can have a bet at those odds mano a mano.

Nobody is raving over a win over Smith - they are raving over his body of work to date, and the ease with which he dominated Kessler and Ward, two men who prior to that had never been dominated by anybody.

You clearly have a serious hard on for GGG - I suggest you douse your member in ice cold water before approaching any betting shops.[/quote]


OH AND IF THEY EVER DO FIGHT, I WILL GIVE YOU 15-1 ODDS PERSONALLY. MINIMUM BET $300. IT'S YOUR'S IF YOU WANT IT. NOT A JOKE. DIRECT MESSAGE ME AND I'LL GIVE YOU MY INFORMATION. LET'S DO IT NOW SO YOU DON'T FORGET.

[jamesmcdonnell]

[/quote]

Thanks for being my gambling advisor but i don't think that we will ever have to worry about this one because Ward won't ever sign the dotted line with this animal. I saw the boxers meeting where GGG challenged Ward in front of the whole crew and i saw Ward shrink back in his shell. Now he's coming out saying that GGG is not taking a fight with him. The guy is delusional so that's probably why he appeals to you so much.

Froch and Kessler are all of sudden elite fighters and Wards claim to fame? That's a riot. These guys are great European fighters but not great world class fighters. What do you think GGG would have done to both of those guys in their prime and even up at 168? Knockouts, both of them. A big reason why Froch is never taking the GGG fight. GGG has given into all of his demands and he still won't take the fight.

What's pathetic is that you are one of those guys blaming GGG for his resume when NO ONE will fight him, even your love toy Ward. They guy is knocking everyone out. What about Murray, Geale or Macklin? Probably a few of your hero's at one time...all wipeout knockouts. Anyone of those guys would give Froch and Kessler all they could handle.

What we are seeing right now with GGG is special stuff. It's Mike Tyson type stuff and instead of appreciating it, you have to tear the only guy trying to make great fights for the fans. Why is that? We should embrace boxers like GGG who clearly say they'll take anyone on anywhere. This is a rare talent and he can't get a fight and it's because people like you pat Ward on the back for fighting a truck driver as his only fight in 2 years. Pathetic. You should be ashamed of yourself.[/quote]

You are delusional if you think that Kessler and Froch are not world class. If neither of those guys are/were then who exactly was in the 168 lb division, as there's only been one better 168 lb fighter in the last 5 years. According to that logic, there are no world class fighters in the whole odf the division - unless of course GGG moves up there.

Why would Murray, Geale or Macklin be my heroes exactly? Could you explain that to me? None of those guys are worth hero worshipping, and it's not something I do anyway.

For my money, a prime Kessler would have been way too strong for GGG - and based on who he has fought so far, I see no reason to make him favourite over a prime Froch either - Froch is some way past his physical peak now.

THIS OPINION MAY CHANGE ONCE I SEE GGG FIGHT AT 168 - ARE YOU CAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING WHAT I MEAN?

I'm not blaming GGG for anything, he's an exciting fighter and I've enjoyed watching his last few fights, who wouldn't - you need to calm down mate. The fact is, whoever's fault it is, GGG's resume so far, is RELATIVELY POOR- sure, he's struggling to get fights, but that doesn't affect the facts, and until he has taken on some better opposition it is wise to temper any admiration for GGG with the realisation that until such time as he faces better opposition we cannot be sure just how good he is.

Nigel Benn years ago was smashing everyone to bits, everyone thought he was indestructible, then he ran into Michael Watson, and Chris Eubank, one of whom nullified his work, and the other who was simply too tough and hit back hard.

I AM NOT APPLAUDING WARD FOR FIGHTING HIS LAST OPPONENT - WHERE DID I SAY THAT. It was a crap fight, however, Ward has beaten other very very good fighters already. According to you Froch and Kessler were 'European level' however, I think you're in a very small minority there.

You need to stop taking this so personally, Christ are you GGG's agent or something? I hope for your sake that Ward never beats GGG, you would probably have a stroke. I personally hope the fight does happen, I think it would be a good one, but win or lose, Ward will give GGG serious problems. I make him favourite, no doubt you think GGG 'annihilates him' - let's hope we find out.

I'm going to put you on ignore now, as you're pretty irritating and moronic, and incapable of being reasonable.

[samwbr]

I'd strongly advise against a career in professional gambling if you give him 6% chance of winning the fight.

Ward has fought a far better level of opposition than GGG at this stage, Kessler and Froch trump anything on GGG's resume, and he dominated them with ease.

GGG hasn't fought even once at 168, and yet you give the top guy at 168 a 6% chance of winning.

I'll gladly take your odds. Should they ever fight, I suggest you back up your strong words with money, and we can have a bet at those odds mano a mano.

Nobody is raving over a win over Smith - they are raving over his body of work to date, and the ease with which he dominated Kessler and Ward, two men who prior to that had never been dominated by anybody.

You clearly have a serious hard on for GGG - I suggest you douse your member in ice cold water before approaching any betting shops.[/quote]

Thanks for being my gambling advisor but i don't think that we will ever have to worry about this one because Ward won't ever sign the dotted line with this animal. I saw the boxers meeting where GGG challenged Ward in front of the whole crew and i saw Ward shrink back in his shell. Now he's coming out saying that GGG is not taking a fight with him. The guy is delusional so that's probably why he appeals to you so much.

Froch and Kessler are all of sudden elite fighters and Wards claim to fame? That's a riot. These guys are great European fighters but not great world class fighters. What do you think GGG would have done to both of those guys in their prime and even up at 168? Knockouts, both of them. A big reason why Froch is never taking the GGG fight. GGG has given into all of his demands and he still won't take the fight.

What's pathetic is that you are one of those guys blaming GGG for his resume when NO ONE will fight him, even your love toy Ward. They guy is knocking everyone out. What about Murray, Geale or Macklin? Probably a few of your hero's at one time...all wipeout knockouts. Anyone of those guys would give Froch and Kessler all they could handle.

What we are seeing right now with GGG is special stuff. It's Mike Tyson type stuff and instead of appreciating it, you have to tear the only guy trying to make great fights for the fans. Why is that? We should embrace boxers like GGG who clearly say they'll take anyone on anywhere. This is a rare talent and he can't get a fight and it's because people like you pat Ward on the back for fighting a truck driver as his only fight in 2 years. Pathetic. You should be ashamed of yourself.[/quote]
Froch now and a prime Kessler would walk right through Murray, Geale and especially Macklin.. They are just not strong enough to handle a world level smw.