Duran vs Armstrong @ Lightweight?

Rocky Balboa · Post by **Rocky Balboa** » 18 Jan 2006, 16:40

This would be very high on my fantasy match-ups list!

Armstrong was just completely non-stop, kept coming, throwing punches etc.

Duran is regarded by most as the best lightweight ever!

Forced to pick, I would take Henry to score a very close SD over Roberto, in a highly competetive bout. Action back and forth etc.

Who you guys got?

theone · Post by **theone** » 18 Jan 2006, 17:09

Armstrong UD 15.
Very tough battle but Armstrong edges out Duran in total volume of punches thrown and that would be the difference in the fight. Armstrong's non stop assault and ability to absorb everything thrown at him would frustrate Duran.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 18 Jan 2006, 17:27

I rate Roberto Duran the best lightweight in history. I rate Armstrong the second best lightweight in history. They are two of my favourite fighters, this is a great matchup.

But on this night, Armstrong wins a decision. His iron chin, underrated cross-arm defense and superhuman stamina would mean he could take Duran's best shots and keep coming back. Duran has the better overrall skills, but Armstrong's inside fighting and brawling ability were unequalled by any fighter in history. I would say both guys' speed and power were approximately equal - both were heavy handed, and also fast. Armstrong has superior stamina, and I'm guessing he's a little stronger too. Both had awesome chins... And in a brawling battle like this, there's absolutely no chance either one is giving up.

I would expect something of an 8-6-1 card for Hurricane Hank.

P.S. - if anyone thinks I'm just another guy who is trying to glorify the old-timers, think again. I would recommend any fight of Henry Armstrong, he is truly impressive, and the most relentless fighter you'll ever see.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 18 Jan 2006, 17:46

Duran gives Armstrong a Zivic style mauling

theone · Post by **theone** » 18 Jan 2006, 17:50

P.S. - if anyone thinks I'm just another guy who is trying to glorify the old-timers, think again. I would recommend any fight of Henry Armstrong, he is truly impressive, and the most relentless fighter you'll ever see.

DoubleM, I'm probably the last person anyone would accuse of glorifying old-timers, but I agree with your take on the fight 100%.

theone · Post by **theone** » 18 Jan 2006, 18:00

Armstrongs prime lasted only four years. In those four years he had a mind boggling 59-1-1 with 52 kos. Nearly ever single opponent was quality and six of them hall of famers. Both his loss and draw were controversal.
Zivic was fortunate to catch Armsrtong at the tail end oif this amazing and never again to be duplicated run. Even the past his best Armstrong was able to beat Zivic later on.

theone · Post by **theone** » 18 Jan 2006, 18:01

tonyevs wrote:Duran gives Armstrong a Zivic style mauling

Armstrongs prime lasted only four years. In those four years he had a mind boggling 59-1-1 with 52 kos. Nearly ever single opponent was quality and six of them hall of famers. Both his loss and draw were controversal.
Zivic was fortunate to catch Armsrtong at the tail end oif this amazing and never again to be duplicated run. Even the past his best Armstrong was able to beat Zivic later on.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 18 Jan 2006, 18:03

Always struggled to work out Armstrongs best fighting weight.

He was a superb fighter..no doubt.

But I just don`t rank him top of any of the weights he reigned in.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 18 Jan 2006, 18:29

tonyevs wrote:Always struggled to work out Armstrongs best fighting weight.

He was a superb fighter..no doubt.

But I just don`t rank him top of any of the weights he reigned in.

I rate him the best featherweight of all time, and one could argue he was also the best lightweight. Not the greatest in terms of accomplishments at those weights, but the best, speaking of head-to-head ability.

At featherweight and lightweight Armstrong was so strong, powerful, granite-chinned and skilled on the inside that I can't see any stationary fighter beating him. Armstrong also had fast hands and feet, and threw so many punches that even the supreme runners wouldn't be able to outpoint him.

I rate Armstrong the best featherweight of all time, the second best lightweight and something like the fifth best welterweight. Hell, he'd probably give most middleweights a run for their money.

Armstrong did what many fighters couldn't. He carried his strength, durability, stamina and punching power above his best weight. He used to be pushing around and outpunching the best brawlers at welterweight when he was weighing in as a lightweight. Probably the strongest fighter I've seen on film.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 18 Jan 2006, 19:23

This would be an outstanding fight! I've never fought of this one before, and it would be a toe-to-toe action fight. I'd lean towards Duran, though, because I feel he is virtually unbeatable at his best at lightweight. Would be very close, but I think Duran is a little more vicious and determined. Would be foul infested, as both often went low. I think Duran would want it more, or at least would want to inflict the most damage

. This would be an out of control fight, with hopefully a ref who wouldn't intefere with the mayhem and not DQ someone. Probably 8-7 on my card for Duran, a classic between two legends.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 18 Jan 2006, 19:51

Does anyone know how many times Henry Armstrong was knocked down in his career, and who was responsible ? I believe Duran was down twice as a LW, both times courtesy of Esteban DeJesus.

theone · Post by **theone** » 18 Jan 2006, 20:33

I think Duran would want it more, or at least would want to inflict the most damage Thumbs Up

I dont think anyone in history fought with more desire to win than Armstrong. The limits that he stretched himself to to fight the best fighters available regardless of weight is peerless.

I'd lean towards Duran, though, because I feel he is virtually unbeatable at his best at lightweight. Would be very close, but I think Duran is a little more vicious and determined.

If Estaban DeJesus could defeat him, Armstrong would be capable. I've watched alot of both of their fights on tape. Duran was indeed vicious and determined, but armstrong seemed possessed.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 18 Jan 2006, 20:56

theone wrote: I dont think anyone in history fought with more desire to win than Armstrong. The limits that he stretched himself to to fight the best fighters available regardless of weight is peerless.

I meant Duran's utter viciousness. He just loved to fight, whether he won or lost. Duran was a guy who would rather beat a guy up then win a bout. He gets a repetition of a quitter after "No mas", but at lightweight he fought like his life depended on it. His snarl as he pushes Buchanan through the ropes is legendary and the prime example of what Duran was at his prime. A beast.

The best thing I've read about Duran was that if he could bring a switchblade in the ring with him, he would. If anyone could out man Armstrong, it would be Duran. He throw elbows, forearms, and went low without a second thought. He loved to fight.

I do lean towards Duran, but to be balanced to your comment on DeJesus-Duran, Armstrong was held on even terms with Ambers twice, and Duran was more active and powerful than him. Duran beat the hell out of DeJesus in the return matches, in most opinions ruining him.

Make this match at welterweight and I would say Armstrong wins, but at lightweight I wouldn't go against Duran. He was as near perfect as can be at this weight-fast, powerful, defensively sound, and determined.

This is a fight I'd hate to predict a winner, as both are two of my favorite fighters. I rate Armstrong higher p-4-p wise, but Duran was the more accomplished lightweight and I do feel he wins this matchup, or any at lightweight for that matter.

theone · Post by **theone** » 18 Jan 2006, 21:21

I do lean towards Duran, but to be balanced to your comment on DeJesus-Duran, Armstrong was held on even terms with Ambers twice, and Duran was more active and powerful than him.

Ambers was alot better than Dejesus, and fought alot more carefully than Duran. He wa a harder target to hit than the much more aggressive Duran would have been. Besides, Armstrong was robbed of that second fight by over officiating and should have been 2-0 against Ambers.

That being said, although I disagree I do respect your opinion. To be honest, its not far fetched for either to win.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 18 Jan 2006, 22:07

theone wrote: That being said, although I disagree I do respect your opinion. To be honest, its not far fetched for either to win.

Exactly, as you see I had it at 8-7 in rounds if it happened. If anybody could beat Duran at lightweight, it would be Armstrong, and possibly Benny Leonard. Both accomplished so much with incredible talent, it's hard to find, or even want to admit, a scenario where one could lose.

That's why I sometimes dislike these mythical matchups, because both are likeable fighters and it's easily conceivable for either fighter to win, and is difficult to envision either losing. Personally, I'd love a draw as the outcome.

theone · Post by **theone** » 18 Jan 2006, 22:34

Personally, I'd love a draw as the outcome.

Jesus, what kind of condition would they be for the rematch?

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 19 Jan 2006, 00:24

Its a great matchup. The thing is it is so hard to pick against Duran at lightweight against anyone in history.Havent seen alot of Armstrong but enough to know that he was an offensive machine. I think Duran by decision because of his feints and head movement.It was tough to hit him clean.It seems that Armstrong would be right there for Duran to score on a little more.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 19 Jan 2006, 00:34

expug wrote:Its a great matchup. The thing is it is so hard to pick against Duran at lightweight against anyone in history.Havent seen alot of Armstrong but enough to know that he was an offensive machine. I think Duran by decision because of his feints and head movement.It was tough to hit him clean.It seems that Armstrong would be right there for Duran to score on a little more.

You gotta see some more of Armstrong mate. He had more active head movement than Duran.

Oh and also, feinting doesn't bother Armstrong. He just piles forward, his head moving automatically, and then his fists start flying. Most of the time he either had his head buried in your chest or was in the process of doing it, there wasn't much time to feint and apply tricky manouvres.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 19 Jan 2006, 00:46

Ya, Armstrong was fantastic,I wish I had some of his fights on video.I am familiar with his accomplishments and all but there doesnt seem to be alot of footage around. So many great battles. I have only seen small highlights. The oddsmakers job would be tough in this fight no doubt.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 19 Jan 2006, 00:59

If Estaban DeJesus could defeat him, Armstrong would be capable

u cant say that, i could say if ambers could defeat him, duran would be capable

were talking lightweight here, and armstrongs best weight was featherweight.

- i rate armstrong 3rd greatest lightweight, my # 2 lightweight is joe gans a highly underated fighter by some people. gans had a very modern style.

duran close decision

i dont think anyone in history at 135lb could take a peak duran

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 19 Jan 2006, 01:22

expug wrote:Ya, Armstrong was fantastic,I wish I had some of his fights on video.I am familiar with his accomplishments and all but there doesnt seem to be alot of footage around. So many great battles. I have only seen small highlights. The oddsmakers job would be tough in this fight no doubt.

Give me a day or so and I'll upload a couple of good Armstrong fights for you

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 19 Jan 2006, 11:52

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
If Estaban DeJesus could defeat him, Armstrong would be capable
u cant say that, i could say if ambers could defeat him, duran would be capable

were talking lightweight here, and armstrongs best weight was featherweight.

- i rate armstrong 3rd greatest lightweight, my # 2 lightweight is joe gans a highly underated fighter by some people. gans had a very modern style.

duran close decision

i dont think anyone in history at 135lb could take a peak duran

Thats the point really, Henry Armstrong at lightweight.

Lou Ambers as exciting as he was, was never the fighter Duran was.

Duran would enjoy Armstrongs pressure...did Armstrong enjoy boxing another two fisted fighter?

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 19 Jan 2006, 16:48

tonyevs wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
If Estaban DeJesus could defeat him, Armstrong would be capable
u cant say that, i could say if ambers could defeat him, duran would be capable

were talking lightweight here, and armstrongs best weight was featherweight.

- i rate armstrong 3rd greatest lightweight, my # 2 lightweight is joe gans a highly underated fighter by some people. gans had a very modern style.

duran close decision

i dont think anyone in history at 135lb could take a peak duran
Thats the point really, Henry Armstrong at lightweight.

Lou Ambers as exciting as he was, was never the fighter Duran was.

Duran would enjoy Armstrongs pressure...did Armstrong enjoy boxing another two fisted fighter?

Armstrong fought two-fisted fighters alright... Ones significantly heavier than himself. In his prime he steamrolled them.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 19 Jan 2006, 17:05

Decagon wrote:
theone wrote:Armstrong UD 15.
Very tough battle but Armstrong edges out Duran in total volume of punches thrown and that would be the difference in the fight. Armstrong's non stop assault and ability to absorb everything thrown at him would frustrate Duran.
If Duran was hitting you, he wasn't getting frustrated. I do see Armstrong making Duran use his defense a lot more than he wanted to, and Duran simply slugging it out with him at times.

I agree. If Duran had something to hit, he was happy.

Although Armstrong wasn't easy to hit. He was real slippery infact, and threw punches from all directions. So did Duran... But Armstrong was even more relentless, and his objective was to get the other guy backing up, no matter how big or how powerful. I believe he would overwhelm Duran in the last two or three rounds.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 19 Jan 2006, 17:10

Armstrong's style was perfect for Duran. I have not seen a better fighter fighting at close range and make you miss like Duran. He was a complete fighting machine at lightweight. His defense was underrated because of his offensive reputation.

I like Armstrong, he was awesome, but I do not think he would beat a prime Duran at 135.

Armstrong to me is not even a top lightweight. He did not have enough fights at that weight class. He had more fights at 126 and 147 than at 135. At 135, Armstrong ONLY had 16 bouts. Duran had 42. I ranked Armstrong over Duran in the pound per pound ratings, though, but at lightweight, he would not have beaten the best lightweight in history...Duran.

How about Armstrong vs Ike Williams at 135??? any picks???