Joe Bugner

[magwitch]

I've just watched a really intriguing documentary on this fella. Wow, what a specimen! I've not looked at his official Boxrec stats but he must be 6' 5" in height. Towers above men, crouches in doorways.

The documentary, which I recorded from allegedly a few weeks ago centred on the lead up to his fight with Joe Frazier! I never even knew he fought Frazier. It followed Joe and camp throughout the day of the fight and even captured Joe turning up to the weigh-in and also the fight, where he had on his white suit, shirt and tie and Panama hat!

Truly was a delight of a film, I'm glad I took the time. Look out for it folks!


2 things I wanna know about.............Joe's coach (a Scottish fella) was rubbing him down all over his body with some kind of grease before his fight. I'd not seen that before, not before a fight - not a boxing match at any rate.

Also I noticed Joe was sitting in his changing room chair with his feet inclined at an angle of about 45 degrees. Is there any particular reason or benefit to this?

Joe Frazier looked like a mean basdass, with all due respect - and it was nice to see respect between the pair in the dressing room afterwards.

[magwitch]

Checked Boxrec. Got him down as 6' 4". Looked bigger to me. A big man indeed! He fancied the job against Frazier but came up short. I suspect he wasn't very old. Born in March 1950 was Joe.......I will see when the fight took place. I would guess at 1976.

[magwitch]

July 1973 in fact. So Bugner was only 23. Interestingly he fought two 15 round EBU decisions in the same year yet also faced Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier either side of those contests in fights that went 12 rounds (the distance)

[Rexob]

July 1973 in fact. So Bugner was only 23. Interestingly he fought two 15 round EBU decisions in the same year yet also faced Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier either side of those contests in fights that went 12 rounds (the distance)

Vey underrated fighter Big Joe Bugner! He was never forgiven for winning against "our Henry"? which is a shame.

[Bodyshot3]

I think I've seen some long snips of the same film and it is good.
Made you realise just what a massive deal being a top-line heavyweight contender was in those days and why it is viewed as the golden era.
Bugner certainly had charisma, a great physique and the ability to mix it with the elite.

There's another interesting film out there which ITV made to drum-up viewers for the Bruno v Bugner fight.
That's good as well because Joe comes across as a great showman and very confident....despite his best years being behind him.

I thought this was a bit odd at first but when you think of all the big fighters he'd faced and the huge build-ups Joe had been through it makes perfect sense; just another day at the office for Big Joe! Big Frank actually comes across as being more tense and on edge.

[keithmoonhangover]

July 1973 in fact. So Bugner was only 23. Interestingly he fought two 15 round EBU decisions in the same year yet also faced Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier either side of those contests in fights that went 12 rounds (the distance)

Vey underrated fighter Big Joe Bugner! He was never forgiven for winning against "our Henry"? which is a shame.

I agree. Styles make fights and I honestly think if Bugner had fought Foreman in Zaire, he'd have beaten him.

[misterpunch]

thanks mercman for putting the link up - i'll have a look at the film right now

[Bodyshot3]

Bugner's one of those blokes where the official stats don't give you the full picture. He was/is a huge guy and not pumped up and bulky like a lot of heavyweights today. Just naturally a big, tall, athletic bloke - big hands, big head, long reach, the whole lot. Fwank Warren said he was the biggest white bloke he had ever seen when he first met him back in the early-80s.

The film Magwitch is referring to is called All in a Day: the Fight and, I agree, is worth watching, especially for anybody interested in a nostalgia trip back to the 70s. Here it is, if anybody's interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uu9dTFfEQA

Thanks Mercman...have only seen bits and pieces of this before. Much appreciated

Bugner was definitely a properly big lad and is it stretching it to say that he's the best cut and most athletic white heavy until the K bothers arrived on the scene and towered over everyone else and looked the part as well?

Cooney was obviously a gigantic man who could whack a fair bit as well, but I am not sure he was as solid as Bugner or blessed with anything like the same reflexes or good movement. Reckon Joe would have skinned Cooney in most gym tests.

I've over-stated the importance of the Bruno fight before...which was essentially a nice payday for both men...but even an ageing Joe bulled his way forward against Frank and there was a lot of raw, big man power there for a few rounds.

Bruno actually went to rough-house tactics himself to cope with what was coming his way.

[Bodyshot3]

Just as a footnote for the above....a quick mention for Tommy Morrison is probably in order.

Tommy was a powerhouse in his prime and was there before the K brothers really got going.....some suggestion of juicing remains lurking in the background....but he definitely looked the part.

[Bodyshot3]

To me, Bugner was naturally a much bigger man than Morrison, who looked pumped up and, as you say, was by all accounts on the gear. A young Bugner looked like a proper athlete.

Agreed....definitely different shapes and Bugner almsot certainly had the more natural advantages.

A shame that the doubts still linger around Tommy's physique/ability because he was great value for a while with that explosive, come-at-you powerful hitting. And he did look the part.

Mercer was interviewed by (I think Graham Houston) for Boxing Monthly and was convinced Tommy was on the 'roids.

[misterpunch]

great doc - interesting on many levels

ta

[SenorPipino]

It's true that Bugner was never really embraced by the British fans. Maybe it was because he was an Aussie by way of Hungary, or his much debated Henry Gibbs-aided win over the beloved Cooper was never forgiven. Perhaps some older Brit fans can weigh in on that.

Bugner was a good, solid fighter, with great fundmentals. Not a great puncher, but he could get your attention.

Had an outstanding chin during his prime, as evidenced by going the route with Frazier and Ali twice---all 12 round bouts.

I recall he was heavily lambasted for his performance in the second Ali fight, that took place in a very hot and steamy Kuala Lampur in 1975.

Bugner had won a string of fights since the back-to-back losses to Ali and Frazier, and was expected to give the aging Ali a competitive bout.

But Bugner hardly threw a meaningful punch in the fight, losing a lopsided decision in his only title match. Bugner appeared to wilt quickly in the sultry heat.

Just a solid guy who wasn't always terribly exciting but a legit top 5 heavy in the 70s. Don't know if he could have beaten a prime Foreman--I suspect Bugner would have remained far too defensive in such a matchup- but it's doubtful he would have embarrassed himself.

[Ambling Alp II]

A fight that gets little attention was Bugner-Lyle. It was a very intense fight. Last I checked it was on Youtube.

[yancey]

Bugner's one of those blokes where the official stats don't give you the full picture. He was/is a huge guy and not pumped up and bulky like a lot of heavyweights today. Just naturally a big, tall, athletic bloke - big hands, big head, long reach, the whole lot. Fwank Warren said he was the biggest white bloke he had ever seen when he first met him back in the early-80s.

The film Magwitch is referring to is called All in a Day: the Fight and, I agree, is worth watching, especially for anybody interested in a nostalgia trip back to the 70s. Here it is, if anybody's interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uu9dTFfEQA

Thanks! Will watch later tonight.

I will always remember that hook that Frazier landed in the 10th, sending Bugner on a slow fall to the canvas.

[funso banjo baby]

Bugner is one of the nearly made it greats.

outstanding record.

not a huge puncher but a master of defence

he gave everything in his two fights with Ali and like so many other challengers would probably have beaten anyone else on the night.

Bugner achieved extraordinary things as a boy and also well into old age (in boxing terms)...i count longevity as one of the defining criteria as well.

[Bodyshot3]

Bugner does great press interviews as well...if he talks to a journalist then he's going to speak his mind, say something original and not just sit on the fence. I think the last one I read was either with BN or BM and it was excellent.

That fight in Kuala Lumpur was a sign of the guy's strength and conditioning....Ali on the the other side of the ring, 15 rounds in ball-breaking heat and humidity. Hard not to be impressed. Bugner said that it was so hot out there that by the time you'd walked to the gym you needed a fresh shirt.

I've dug up Joe and Henry's great together to discuss their fight and shake hands.

Probably the best thing Bunce has done and good to see!

Apologies if you've all seen it before! Part 2 should be offered as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jd9Xj2tzVI

[misterpunch]

props to joe - people in this country should have given him more credit

[AntonS]

Checked Boxrec. Got him down as 6' 4". Looked bigger to me. A big man indeed! He fancied the job against Frazier but came up short. I suspect he wasn't very old. Born in March 1950 was Joe.......I will see when the fight took place. I would guess at 1976.

6'4" is about right. I'm 6'2" & he ain't all that much taller. He's a through gentlemen who still sounds like a frigging Pom after all these years

[Ambling Alp II]

Here's Bugner-Ali 1, which I think was a much better fight than when they met in Kuala Lumpa two years later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwIE0sk7KwA

Bugner gets cut in the first but comes back and gives Ali a real fight, and remember this is Ali before the Rumble and the Thriller. Either way, you can see how quick and mobile Bugner is in this fight, which was a really good performance considering he was only 22 at the time.

Glad you mentioned the part about Bugner being mobile. I remember reading in some book where they referred to Bugner as being as immobile as a statue! I remember, thinking, how could someone come to that conclusion? He moved very well on his feet.

[Caractacus]

Yeah,I think you have to have a bit of a mean streak to be a really succusful boxer.

[Rexob]

Yeah,I think you have to have a bit of a mean streak to be a really succusful boxer.

No shi.t Sherlock!

[magwitch]

How would Joe Bugner have fared against current/ recent British Heavies Tyson Fury and Haye?

[magwitch]

I think I would have been a Bugner fan (he boxed a few years too early for me). I know he dethroned Cooper and that was 'unpopular' , but whenever I've seen him on the tele - even that Jungle thing, he has come over as a nice guy. He's never seemed too big for his boots - and to look for a foundation of this , which is complete guess work, but I'm going to anyway, would his coming to the UK as a foreign national have been a factor at all?
Also, was Bugner ever honoured formally - such as for services to Boxing for instance?
I wonder what his status is as regards his nationality now....will he still be a British citizen or does it expire after, presumably, taking up Aus' citizenship?

[magwitch]

How would Joe Bugner have fared against current/ recent British Heavies Tyson Fury and Haye?

It all depends what version of Bugner turns up because he could blow hot and cold. Leaving that aside, I've never been sure quite what I think about Haye. I can't decide about Bugner-Fury either because, whilst Bugner had more skill, athleticism, ring craft, etc. - and a much better chin - Fury would still have a significant size advantage.

From what I've seen of Fury, he also seems to have spirit, whereas Bugner was always a reluctant fighter. So, all in all, I dunno. What do you think?

I half ecpected to be guffawed at for mentioning a current fighter with someone 'revered', which is what being in the past can do for you.
Well, if someone can do 36 rounds there or thereabouts, with Ali and Frazier then they shouldn't be overawed by anybody - but as you say, Fury is a big lad.
What struck me in that doc - which led to this thread - is that at 23 Bugner was a big-framed guy who was TRIM. I used to watch Tyson Fury on ITV4 when he was that age and he did not look in any way an athlete, nor even a natural fighter.
So I would go for Bugner to win by picking him off coming in and moving around. Perhaps even Bugner late on. I reckon if Tyson had ever had to bother with things like 'making the weight' he'd have never become a boxer and we'd not have heard of him, I do believe that

[Bodyshot3]

How would Joe Bugner have fared against current/ recent British Heavies Tyson Fury and Haye?

Interesting one indeed!

I reckon he'd have fared pretty well against both of them.

Certainly big, strong and smart enough not to get manhandled by Fury and able to match Tyson for mobility. And that great chin would have stood him in good stead as well. Maybe Joe had the shade faster hands also?

Suppose the big question would be whether enough good stuff came back from Joe and often enough to tip the decision his way. I could see Tyson doing the pressing and he does have a good work-rate as well. Possibly very tight indeed.

Can't really come to anything logical about a Haye showdown. David had that massive power - that even stunned a leviathian like Valuev when he pulled the trigger - but he would have been the smaller man in against someone who could block loads of shots, counter-punch sharply and who had top notch stamina as well.