Froch upsets Nigel Benn

[jamesmcdonnell]

Benn was inspired that night against Gman (I know it has been said so many times, but he was!). That was a close to a Rocky Balboa (e.g. non-human) performance I have seen in a real contest.

I honestly think if you had Benn on THAT night then I could see why anyone would pick Benn against pretty much any Middle/ Super Middle in the world of his or the next era but in his near 50 bouts, he only fought that inspired that one night (and there is no shame in that). Even going on his next best night (possibly) with the Eubank draw, he fought at about a 3rd of the pace of the GMan performance - that's where I was judging any Froch vs Benn fight. The fact that Sugar Boy Malinga out boxed him (twice IMO), Eubank quite dominated him in fight 1, Collins broke his heart, Watson broke his lungs - Henry Wharton after a sleepy start fought Benn on much of an even keel from the half way point. A weight drained Nicky Piper came pretty close also (what a fight that was, very really gets mentioned - if you have the chance watch it!).

However, I think Froch - even on his most inspired performances would not be able to "Nigel Benn" the GMan. Yes, Gerald might have been a bit of a one trick pony, but he was no Jeff Lacy - he had very good handspeed and a nice jab also. I think Froch, as good a chin as he has got compared to Nigel's 47 other fights, would not have walked through McClellan's punches like Benn did that night. If George Groves can back up Froch and make him think twice about his own offense, then GMan would do a bit more. McCllelan has a lot more power than any of Froch's advisories and if the likes of Taylor and Groves can put him on his arse, than GMan would have kept him down.

McClellan was nowhere near as big a man as Froch - I think McClellan's knockout power has people seduced, as said elsewhere here, his best victory was over career junior middleweight Julian Jackson, and the ghost of Mugabi.

Froch had a far better chin than Benn, and it is well documented that all was not well with McClellan even before the bout. He had been complaining of severe headaches for months, and had not been feeling right since the previous bout.

Froch and MCClellan are different propositions entirely. It was an incredible display from Benn, - but one shouldn't read too much or extrapolate too far from that.

[stujones]

McCllelan was a massive middleweight - how he made the weight was shocking.

Froch would not have been that much bigger in frame than McCllelan - who looked a weight bigger than Benn (who was a very small super middle).

Interestingly, Froch spoke about how he used his superior reach to his advantage vs Groves - he would not have had that luxury vs McCllelan.

[freddydoesdallas]

Benn was inspired that night against Gman (I know it has been said so many times, but he was!). That was a close to a Rocky Balboa (e.g. non-human) performance I have seen in a real contest.

I honestly think if you had Benn on THAT night then I could see why anyone would pick Benn against pretty much any Middle/ Super Middle in the world of his or the next era but in his near 50 bouts, he only fought that inspired that one night (and there is no shame in that). Even going on his next best night (possibly) with the Eubank draw, he fought at about a 3rd of the pace of the GMan performance - that's where I was judging any Froch vs Benn fight. The fact that Sugar Boy Malinga out boxed him (twice IMO), Eubank quite dominated him in fight 1, Collins broke his heart, Watson broke his lungs - Henry Wharton after a sleepy start fought Benn on much of an even keel from the half way point. A weight drained Nicky Piper came pretty close also (what a fight that was, very really gets mentioned - if you have the chance watch it!).

However, I think Froch - even on his most inspired performances would not be able to "Nigel Benn" the GMan. Yes, Gerald might have been a bit of a one trick pony, but he was no Jeff Lacy - he had very good handspeed and a nice jab also. I think Froch, as good a chin as he has got compared to Nigel's 47 other fights, would not have walked through McClellan's punches like Benn did that night. If George Groves can back up Froch and make him think twice about his own offense, then GMan would do a bit more. McCllelan has a lot more power than any of Froch's advisories and if the likes of Taylor and Groves can put him on his arse, than GMan would have kept him down.

McClellan was nowhere near as big a man as Froch - I think McClellan's knockout power has people seduced, as said elsewhere here, his best victory was over career junior middleweight Julian Jackson, and the ghost of Mugabi.

Froch had a far better chin than Benn, and it is well documented that all was not well with McClellan even before the bout. He had been complaining of severe headaches for months, and had not been feeling right since the previous bout.

Froch and MCClellan are different propositions entirely. It was an incredible display from Benn, - but one shouldn't read too much or extrapolate too far from that.

He surrounded himself with yes men and didn't he train himself too?

[SNG]

Henry swears he could have beat Benn that night. He froze. He doesn't say the same about Eubank. As for GMan hitting a lot harder than Froch's opponents, maybe, but you will struggle to see a bigger shot, even from Gerald, that he walked onto against Groves. Doubled the impact walking in, square on, against a much bigger man than Gerald.

Aye, you won't get many landing a shot as good as that on Froch, it was perfect and would have done for the majority of the division.

[Counter-puncher]

Henry swears he could have beat Benn that night. He froze. He doesn't say the same about Eubank. As for GMan hitting a lot harder than Froch's opponents, maybe, but you will struggle to see a bigger shot, even from Gerald, that he walked onto against Groves. Doubled the impact walking in, square on, against a much bigger man than Gerald.

Aye, you won't get many landing a shot as good as that on Froch, it was perfect and would have done for the majority of the division.

And a fair few lightheavies as well

[SNG]

Henry swears he could have beat Benn that night. He froze. He doesn't say the same about Eubank. As for GMan hitting a lot harder than Froch's opponents, maybe, but you will struggle to see a bigger shot, even from Gerald, that he walked onto against Groves. Doubled the impact walking in, square on, against a much bigger man than Gerald.

Aye, you won't get many landing a shot as good as that on Froch, it was perfect and would have done for the majority of the division.

And a fair few lightheavies as well

True. I knew a few still doubt it but Groves is heavy handed.

[Grilling Machine]

Take a look at Eubank's record again objectively and tell me what's in there to convince you that no-one is history could have whupped him apart from Robinson, as I'm just astonished by that statement?

Big fan of the fighter, not so much the man. I think he'd have lost to most of these guys: Jones, Toney, Nunn, McCallum, Hagler, Hearns, Monzon, Charles, Patterson, Robinson, Ketchel... And more besides.

But his resolve was so strong, and his chin so good, I really can't see too many of those truly whupping him. Making him look silly is very different; Graham might well have outpointed him. My definition of 'whupping' is a one-sided beating that breaks the loser psychologically. Holmes-Cobb was a beating, but not a whupping.

[Deserter]

Take a look at Eubank's record again objectively and tell me what's in there to convince you that no-one is history could have whupped him apart from Robinson, as I'm just astonished by that statement?

Big fan of the fighter, not so much the man. I think he'd have lost to most of these guys: Jones, Toney, Nunn, McCallum, Hagler, Hearns, Monzon, Charles, Patterson, Robinson, Ketchel... And more besides.

But his resolve was so strong, and his chin so good, I really can't see too many of those truly whupping him. Making him look silly is very different; Graham might well have outpointed him. My definition of 'whupping' is a one-sided beating that breaks the loser psychologically. Holmes-Cobb was a beating, but not a whupping.

Fair enough

[mickey1975]

Well I can, Jones would have schooled him.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

Take a look at Eubank's record again objectively and tell me what's in there to convince you that no-one is history could have whupped him apart from Robinson, as I'm just astonished by that statement?

Big fan of the fighter, not so much the man. I think he'd have lost to most of these guys: Jones, Toney, Nunn, McCallum, Hagler, Hearns, Monzon, Charles, Patterson, Robinson, Ketchel... And more besides.

But his resolve was so strong, and his chin so good, I really can't see too many of those truly whupping him. Making him look silly is very different; Graham might well have outpointed him. My definition of 'whupping' is a one-sided beating that breaks the loser psychologically. Holmes-Cobb was a beating, but not a whupping.

Eubank, like Naz, was one of those guys who really got it.
He knew how to sell tickets, make money, have exciting fights, be a star and not get put into a position where he would look bad.
Whats the point of fighting someone you think could beat u when you are earning half a million quid a go, fighting top 10 contenders?

[Bricks]

This is pretty much the Calzaghe Froch scenario at the tail end of Joe's career. Calzaghe's legacy has not changed because he did not fight Froch. Froch's legacy will not be questioned because he did not fight Degale.

No it isnt. That was the groves -froch thing and Carl had two wars with him.

This is,waaay beyond that .this is the lennox lewis v wladimir klitchko in 2011 scenario.

graham and sibson are the only brits of that era who tried to fight the best .

The 87-93 era for mws was an incredible one but the sm era 2008-2013 was close behind and froch fought EVERYONE DAMMIT.

Benn fought v good comp but McClellan was the best he fought. He openly avoided toney,nunn, and mccallum. For those 3 read ward,dirrel,johnson.....and froch would have fought them all.

Benn in fairness tried to fight srl,duran, and rjj.

Bith incredible fighters and froch would have beaten Benn handily and cazlAghe too

Ambrose put benn up to this

[stujones]

This is pretty much the Calzaghe Froch scenario at the tail end of Joe's career. Calzaghe's legacy has not changed because he did not fight Froch. Froch's legacy will not be questioned because he did not fight Degale.

No it isnt. That was the groves -froch thing and Carl had two wars with him.

This is,waaay beyond that .this is the lennox lewis v wladimir klitchko in 2011 scenario.

graham and sibson are the only brits of that era who tried to fight the best .

The 87-93 era for mws was an incredible one but the sm era 2008-2013 was close behind and froch fought EVERYONE DAMMIT.

Benn fought v good comp but McClellan was the best he fought. He openly avoided toney,nunn, and mccallum. For those 3 read ward,dirrel,johnson.....and froch would have fought them all.

Benn in fairness tried to fight srl,duran, and rjj.

Bith incredible fighters and froch would have beaten Benn handily and cazlAghe too

Ambrose put benn up to this

Arggh - see my other thread on Froch's retirement and Sky's hype.... Groves 2 was hardly a war.... it was a highlight reel KO but before that it was dull.

First fight a war yes, 2nd fight cagey.

[orbtastic]

Benn was set-up to fight Nunn, Nunn fought over in the UK on a Benn undercard but lost to Steve Little. A man that his promoter then tried to force him to fight McClellan for 50k.

I'm not entirely sure that Benn avoided him, it was largely around money and promoters. The fight was clearly being set-up, otherwise why bring him to the UK to fight on a Benn undercard?

[mickey1975]

Benn was set-up to fight Nunn, Nunn fought over in the UK on a Benn undercard but lost to Steve Little. A man that his promoter then tried to force him to fight McClellan for 50k.

I'm not entirely sure that Benn avoided him, it was largely around money and promoters. The fight was clearly being set-up, otherwise why bring him to the UK to fight on a Benn undercard?

Yes, that was a done deal.

[Bricks]

Id also say benn was a rare fighter .22-0 22 kayoes he was getting a,lot of press in the american magazines in very early 89. He got spanked humiliated by watson.

Than the way he upped sticks went to Miami and corrected his faults (not using boxing brain,no pacing,stamina,poor defence,no movement) and within a year had added superb lateral movement,pacing and improved defence is very rare. By the time he fought mclellan he was a very good defensive fighter overall,altho he would get wobbled by the odd punch so he could fire back and rous the crowd.

Im not saying benn wouldnt have beaten say a,jackson,kalambay or nunn the second tier of very good fighters but im 100% sure rjj and toney and a faded hearns circa 88-92 would beat him easily.

Id love to have seen benn v srl in late 1990.or duran v benn in late 89.or nunn v benn in 93

[jamesmcdonnell]

Well I can, Jones would have schooled him.

I can't think of anyone who would have beaten the 168 lb version of Jones - he was a monster at that weight.

[orbtastic]

Benn Jackson would have been a shoot-out for the ages. Same with Hearns around that time.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Benn Jackson would have been a shoot-out for the ages. Same with Hearns around that time.

Benn V Hearns, Christ, what a war.

Thomas was capable of outboxing him - but always a chance Benn catches him A-La Barkley.

Hearns was always a little bit fragile, as was Benn, could have been a see-saw slugfest that one.

[GPTM1403]

Great post
I too wondered what was going on with Joe at times around the Mitchell/Lacy period. Had only thought maybe it was to do with him making the adjustment to fight more tactically, out-work & out-point opponents rather than rolling them over like he used to. I think he comfortably outpoints Froch with craft, speed & workrate. Even at the end of his career.
Interesting you said you think Eubank trained properly only rarely. To me, he was a fighter who always looked in incredible nick.
Calzaghe is on record as saying Eubank was his toughest fight. Wasn't it also the Eubank fight where he broke his left hand? Joe was in his prime, Eubank was in his twilight and also (lest we forget) took that fight at ridiculously short notice. I agree with you 100%, in his prime Eubank beats them all.
What happened in the Watson fight was a terrible shame for lots of reasons of course, but not least because it altered the course of Eubank's career. He still achieved greatness, but IMO we will never know just how great he could have been, because of what happened v Watson.

May seem odd but I think prime Eubank beats the early Calzaghe but the later Calzaghe, the one with the dodgy hands who adapted into speed, volumes and movement would have been a nightmare for Eubank. CE posed so much because he didn't like working all round every round. The later version of Calzaghe is all wrong for him. I think Calzaghe beats Froch every time though. I don't think he stops him but he just has too much talent for Froch and I don't think Froch punched hard enough to change that. Benn v Froch is more interesting in that I'd agree with most that Benn's chance is early, after first few rounds Froch grinds him down. Froch has one of those chins that improves as the fight goes on, catching him cold is the best chance. Benn is one of the few who could have done that.

Last thing, on the idea Benn was scared of anyone else, watch his reaction when Barclay starts trying to whine about the stoppage not being fair and it wouldn't be the same in a real fight. Benn was straight back at him "you want knuckles, I'll give you knuckles". He wasn't scared of anyone but if he wanted more money than was offered for some of the big fights then fair play to the man. In fact that was how the McClellan fight was supposed to have been made. They wanted Benn to take pay cut, give on this term, and on that condition, to fight Nunn and threatened they'd bring over their pocket Tyson to beat him up if he didn't take it. So apparently Benn told them to bring it on.

It's a short career and if you're going to risk it all then you should get well paid for it. (As goes for anyone else who wants high rewards for high risks).

[Counter-puncher]

"you want knuckles, ill give you knuckles", I can't believe after all these years I only just heard that, I must have just seen the fight at the time cos I wouldn't forget that any more than I'd forget "they only brought him over here to bash me up mate" or "I.....i detest Chris Eubank...but I can't detract from what he did tonight" Fvcking brilliant. He always was a great, searingly honest post-fight interview.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Froch would be a great wicket keeper in the local cricket team he'd catch plenty
Froch would walk into a Benn bomb and be counted out in 2.

??????????????? Did you only start watching froch around the groves fight???

No I started watching boxing match's that long ago that i'v forgot about a lot of fight's i'v seen.........one thing I know is that Benn is one of the BIGGEST wacker's I'v ever seen that I can remember and another thing I remember is that Froch fight's like a true WARRIOR giving his best no matter what..........Froth has always lacked D that's what I remember...........That's D for defence and this will spell KO for Froch against a brutal KO artist like The Dark Destroyer

[mickey1975]

One of the biggest punchers you've ever seen? You need to watch more boxing.... Not a chance he throws a better shot than Groves did in the first fight. Groves is a much bigger man, and he landed some serious leather.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I just don't see anyone bombing Froch out - it just doesn't seem feasible.

If Groves couldn't get him out of there after that leathering - it's hard to see anybody else doing it - the first punch that put him over was bang on the button, and with full weight transfer - and Froch never saw it coming - it was pretty much the perfect punch. Even then, Froch was starting to get up as soon as his arse hit the canvas.

I'm not saying Froch cannot be stopped, but I'm saying it would have to be a gradual beatdown, and probably one where the ref rescues him from himself.

[Fuzzy Warbles]

I'm not saying Froch cannot be stopped, but I'm saying it would have to be a gradual beatdown, and probably one where the ref rescues him from himself.

Benn was never really a Supermiddle (I think he just went to 12st to chase a rematch with Eubank) and he wasn't quite the same puncher at the higher weight, so I tend to agree he wouldn't have been able to bang out Froch who (for his MANY limitations) had a really good chin.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I'm not saying Froch cannot be stopped, but I'm saying it would have to be a gradual beatdown, and probably one where the ref rescues him from himself.

Benn was never really a Supermiddle (I think he just went to 12st to chase a rematch with Eubank) and he wasn't quite the same puncher at the higher weight, so I tend to agree he wouldn't have been able to bang out Froch who (for his MANY limitations) had a really good chin.

I can't really think of a super middle that would have bombed Froch out to be honest. He's definitely got one of the best chins, and even better powers of recovery I've ever seen.