Why Floyd Mayweather Jr. is one of the ATGs

[punchoutsb]

So what other reason you Marciano the best hw of all time other than the zero in the loss column?

importantly knew how not to lose.

Again the most important for you is zero in the loss column.

One of the worst cases of seeing what you want to see I've seen.

[Ezzard]

He's up there with the greatest of defensive fighters... Pep, Benitez, Whittaker, Johnson...

I think his record is good but getting overblown on here. I mean it's all well and good to say he beat x number of champs but almost none of those guys would have been champs 50 years ago... They were belt holders. At the same time he hasn’t set up camp as king of the hill and said come and get me…instead he’s picked who he wants to fight. It’s not really the same as having to defend against all-comers who have fought their way to the top.

He’s great in any era but not top 20 all-time.

It is difficult to compare todays fighters with that of half a century ago .... like most sports it evolves, just like boxing... there are so many variants to consider that are not the same like differences in equipment, diet, fluid intake training, media changes to study opponents, stircter rules, and even the science ... Even Belts are more in abundance today plus mw has the choicetoday of who and when because every wants to fight him ... I'd put him in the top 10 at the very least..

The real question in this kind of debate isn't how good Floyd is but just how good everyone else is/was...

Robinson, Greb, Langford, Armstrong and Charles are really untouchable. Then you have guys like Archie Moore, Gene Tunney, Benny Leonard, Joe Gans, Sandy Saddler... The list goes on.

He's a great fighter but so where they.

[ajwesty13]

He's up there with the greatest of defensive fighters... Pep, Benitez, Whittaker, Johnson...

I think his record is good but getting overblown on here. I mean it's all well and good to say he beat x number of champs but almost none of those guys would have been champs 50 years ago... They were belt holders. At the same time he hasn’t set up camp as king of the hill and said come and get me…instead he’s picked who he wants to fight. It’s not really the same as having to defend against all-comers who have fought their way to the top.

He’s great in any era but not top 20 all-time.

It is difficult to compare todays fighters with that of half a century ago .... like most sports it evolves, just like boxing... there are so many variants to consider that are not the same like differences in equipment, diet, fluid intake training, media changes to study opponents, stircter rules, and even the science ... Even Belts are more in abundance today plus mw has the choicetoday of who and when because every wants to fight him ... I'd put him in the top 10 at the very least..

The real question in this kind of debate isn't how good Floyd is but just how good everyone else is/was...

Robinson, Greb, Langford, Armstrong and Charles are really untouchable. Then you have guys like Archie Moore, Gene Tunney, Benny Leonard, Joe Gans, Sandy Saddler... The list goes on.

He's a great fighter but so where they.

I personally think the people you speak of were more gentlemen and likeable whereas mw character is less admirable... it is for me near on impossible to judge fighters across the age as we try and compare all the differences based only on opinion and changes in the sport i have already mentioned... so it leaves the only factual evidence .... a) their record and b) did they fight the best around ....which flloyd has done and rightly ticked those boxes... so on that mw deserves a place in the top 10 easily

[Ezzard]

He doesn't have a top 10 fight record though.

Emile Griffith usually lands around 20 in all-time lists. He has a superior record to Floyd's.

[ajwesty13]

He doesn't have a top 10 fight record though.

Emile Griffith usually lands around 20 in all-time lists. He has a superior record to Floyd's.

Mw has fought anyone out there and has beaten everyone out there... he is the best of this era without doubt .... looks as though he will finish unbeaten ... he might not have had a ridiculous amount of fights as the older fighters in the top ten but like I said its a different sport than it was... mw should be in the top 10 easily

[brilo33]

iam 33 years old, born london to irish dad , scotish mum,grew up watching itv eubanks,watson,benn. until an irish brother came along steve collins made us proud to be irish,we loved watching prince nazz hoping he would lose flash git .Wayne McCullough an irish man from the shank hill. us catholic boys staunch behind mccullough and my favourite supported boxer the hitman,then older brother drifted away had kids, me and me twin drifted of to,cotto v margarito brought me back.i followed every fight cotto fought before and after on youtube .from me i have brought my brothers and dad back to boxing.we all agree Floyd is class but we would not be watching boxing for fighters like him

[punchoutsb]

iam 33 years old, born london to irish dad , scotish mum,grew up watching itv eubanks,watson,benn. until an irish brother came along steve collins made us proud to be irish,we loved watching prince nazz hoping he would lose flash git .Wayne McCullough an irish man from the shank hill. us catholic boys staunch behind mccullough and my favourite supported boxer the hitman,then older brother drifted away had kids, me and me twin drifted of to,cotto v margarito brought me back.i followed every fight cotto fought before and after on youtube .from me i have brought my brothers and dad back to boxing.we all agree Floyd is class but we would not be watching boxing for fighters like him

Thanks for sharing!

And I'm not being facetious. I'm always interested in stories on how we got in to boxing. Oh, and I'm from a Scottish mum too

[jezzamundo]

He doesn't have a top 10 fight record though.

Emile Griffith usually lands around 20 in all-time lists. He has a superior record to Floyd's.

Mw has fought anyone out there and has beaten everyone out there... he is the best of this era without doubt .... looks as though he will finish unbeaten ... he might not have had a ridiculous amount of fights as the older fighters in the top ten but like I said its a different sport than it was... mw should be in the top 10 easily

I agree a case can be argued for Mayweather being top 10 of all-time, but I don't think it's a particularly strong case and I certainly disagree with the notion that he easily makes the top 10. He's the best of his era, but how strong has his era really been? It's not about the number of fights, its about the number of fights against top opposition in their prime. SRL has less fights, but I rate him clearly above Mayweather because he fought a higher level of opposition and from watching both, I'm convinced that he would beat Mayweather in a fight at welterweight. I think had Floyd comfortably beaten Manny Pacquiao in 2010, when he was still in his prime, he would have a much stronger arguement for a top 10 all-time place. It's not that Floyd isn't great, he is, but there have been many who were greater.

[ajwesty13]

He doesn't have a top 10 fight record though.

Emile Griffith usually lands around 20 in all-time lists. He has a superior record to Floyd's.

Mw has fought anyone out there and has beaten everyone out there... he is the best of this era without doubt .... looks as though he will finish unbeaten ... he might not have had a ridiculous amount of fights as the older fighters in the top ten but like I said its a different sport than it was... mw should be in the top 10 easily

I agree a case can be argued for Mayweather being top 10 of all-time, but I don't think it's a particularly strong case and I certainly disagree with the notion that he easily makes the top 10. He's the best of his era, but how strong has his era really been? It's not about the number of fights, its about the number of fights against top opposition in their prime. SRL has less fights, but I rate him clearly above Mayweather because he fought a higher level of opposition and from watching both, I'm convinced that he would beat Mayweather in a fight at welterweight. I think had Floyd comfortably beaten Manny Pacquiao in 2010, when he was still in his prime, he would have a much stronger arguement for a top 10 all-time place. It's not that Floyd isn't great, he is, but there have been many who were greater.

Id put mw up there with srl...Maybe I am an optimist but I can only see the differences being character, popularity and entertainment styles... yes it is a shame that the fight didn't happen in 2010 but that is not entirely the fault of MW, but both camps and as Bob said 'over my dead body". To define a fighter because of the politics of boxing is a little unjust. However If the fight was a lot closer or it turned out to be the fight of the year then we would allow MW more credit and a free passport in to the top 10.... but alas as predicted by the few, the fight was a majot let down, as MW dominated, so credit is withheld because the opinion is the fight happened to late... IMHO the outcome wouldnt have been much different in 2010.

To compare fighters is hard enough but to then try and compare the opposition is a Proverbial minefield .... I think history will be kinder than a few of the boxing fans have...

[Ezzard]

He doesn't have a top 10 fight record though.

Emile Griffith usually lands around 20 in all-time lists. He has a superior record to Floyd's.

Mw has fought anyone out there and has beaten everyone out there... he is the best of this era without doubt .... looks as though he will finish unbeaten ... he might not have had a ridiculous amount of fights as the older fighters in the top ten but like I said its a different sport than it was... mw should be in the top 10 easily

Griffith has a better record. He's not usually in the top 10.

[jezzamundo]

Id put mw up there with srl...Maybe I am an optimist but I can only see the differences being character, popularity and entertainment styles... yes it is a shame that the fight didn't happen in 2010 but that is not entirely the fault of MW, but both camps and as Bob said 'over my dead body". To define a fighter because of the politics of boxing is a little unjust. However If the fight was a lot closer or it turned out to be the fight of the year then we would allow MW more credit and a free passport in to the top 10.... but alas as predicted by the few, the fight was a majot let down, as MW dominated, so credit is withheld because the opinion is the fight happened to late... IMHO the outcome wouldnt have been much different in 2010.

To compare fighters is hard enough but to then try and compare the opposition is a Proverbial minefield .... I think history will be kinder than a few of the boxing fans have...

Fair enough, each to his own, but I disagree with just about everything you've written, with the exception of the blame for there being no Manny-Mayweather fight in 2010 - I agree that both camps contributed to that fight falling apart. Such a pity, because a Mayweather-Pacquiao fight in 2010 would have been a truly historically significant fight between the p4p #1 and #2, both in their primes, which very rarely happens.

I also agree that this year's fight was a letdown, although I had it close, with Mayweather winning by a single point. I thought both guys performed poorly.

[ajwesty13]

Id put mw up there with srl...Maybe I am an optimist but I can only see the differences being character, popularity and entertainment styles... yes it is a shame that the fight didn't happen in 2010 but that is not entirely the fault of MW, but both camps and as Bob said 'over my dead body". To define a fighter because of the politics of boxing is a little unjust. However If the fight was a lot closer or it turned out to be the fight of the year then we would allow MW more credit and a free passport in to the top 10.... but alas as predicted by the few, the fight was a majot let down, as MW dominated, so credit is withheld because the opinion is the fight happened to late... IMHO the outcome wouldnt have been much different in 2010.

To compare fighters is hard enough but to then try and compare the opposition is a Proverbial minefield .... I think history will be kinder than a few of the boxing fans have...

Fair enough, each to his own, but I disagree with just about everything you've written, with the exception of the blame for there being no Manny-Mayweather fight in 2010 - I agree that both camps contributed to that fight falling apart. Such a pity, because a Mayweather-Pacquiao fight in 2010 would have been a truly historically significant fight between the p4p #1 and #2, both in their primes, which very rarely happens.

I also agree that this year's fight was a letdown, although I had it close, with Mayweather winning by a single point. I thought both guys performed poorly.

Fair enough it just our opinions and we both expressed them ... and after how you scored the fight only by a point whereas i had MW 118 110 think we were never going to agree...

[JeanClaude Van Damme]

Mayweather would not have moved up in weight class and would have just retired if this were a different era, say the 80's.

Not a top 10 WW, not even top 20. Neither is Manny. Hearns would have KO'd both of them.

[jezzamundo]

Mayweather would not have moved up in weight class and would have just retired if this were a different era, say the 80's.

Not a top 10 WW, not even top 20. Neither is Manny. Hearns would have KO'd both of them.

I agree that neither is a top 10 welterweight, but both Floyd and Manny are ATGs because of what they accomplished across several divisions. Hearns would definitely have KO'd Manny and beaten Floyd at welterweight, though I think because his defense is so good, Floyd would have a chance of surviving and losing a decision.

[tiny_acres]

Mayweather would not have moved up in weight class and would have just retired if this were a different era, say the 80's.

Not a top 10 WW, not even top 20. Neither is Manny. Hearns would have KO'd both of them.

I agree that neither is a top 10 welterweight, but both Floyd and Manny are ATGs because of what they accomplished across several divisions. Hearns would definitely have KO'd Manny and beaten Floyd at welterweight, though I think because his defense is so good, Floyd would have a chance of surviving and losing a decision.

Jezamundo I agree with you on a decision loss.
Even Hearns himself has admitted on numerous occasions that a match up with
Floyd would be a stylistic nightmare for him.

[KBB]

Mayweather would not have moved up in weight class and would have just retired if this were a different era, say the 80's.

Not a top 10 WW, not even top 20. Neither is Manny. Hearns would have KO'd both of them.

How do you know he wouldn't have moved up, honestly how would you know??

Did he tell you that personally??

[koolkc107]

Floyd was already comfortably inside the top 20 on several lists before he beat Pac.

No way he didnt move up after.

[ikorolev]

Floyd was already comfortably inside the top 20 on several lists before he beat Pac.

No way he didnt move up after.

In imagination of his d!ck riders.

[ajwesty13]

Floyd was already comfortably inside the top 20 on several lists before he beat Pac.

No way he didnt move up after.

I do agree of comfortably inside 20.... maybe a slight movement up a couple of places after pac fight which was dire at best. .I might have been a slightly tempestuous suggesting he would 'easily' fit in to the top ten however I wouldn't argue if he was placed anywhere between 15-10 ....

[jezzamundo]

Floyd was already comfortably inside the top 20 on several lists before he beat Pac.

No way he didnt move up after.

I do agree of comfortably inside 20.... maybe a slight movement up a couple of places after pac fight which was dire at best. .I might have been a slightly tempestuous suggesting he would 'easily' fit in to the top ten however I wouldn't argue if he was placed anywhere between 15-10 ....

I appreciate the concession - arguably top 10, yes; easily top 10, no. I also agree that the Pacquiao fight improves his all-time standing, but not by much. Personally, I would probably have had him somewhere in the 20-25 range now.

[jamesmcdonnell]

It's easy to either overrate or underrate Floyd.

Part of the problem is that he has seldom been pushed hard, and that creates the illusion that all of his opponents were mediocre, which is not correct.

Obviously, he wasn't in the era of Leonard, Hagler, et.al. but we can't really punish him for the competition not being as stellar - he beat everyone out there, and beat them with ease in almost every case.

I struggle whether to put him in the top 10 or not, there's a lot of competition for top 10 spots, Leonard, Duran, Armstrong, Robinson, Ali, Moore, to name but a handful - top 20, I'd say somewhere around there.

Had he fought Pacquaio 5 years earlier, I think he gets far more props, because Pacquaio hasn't looked like a dangerous fighter for quite a long time now, - he doesn't seem to have the fire in his belly any more. I am not sure Pacman is really in love with boxing or hungry enough any longer.

[ajwesty13]

It's easy to either overrate or underrate Floyd.

Part of the problem is that he has seldom been pushed hard, and that creates the illusion that all of his opponents were mediocre, which is not correct.

Obviously, he wasn't in the era of Leonard, Hagler, et.al. but we can't really punish him for the competition not being as stellar - he beat everyone out there, and beat them with ease in almost every case.

I struggle whether to put him in the top 10 or not, there's a lot of competition for top 10 spots, Leonard, Duran, Armstrong, Robinson, Ali, Moore, to name but a handful - top 20, I'd say somewhere around there.

Had he fought Pacquaio 5 years earlier, I think he gets far more props, because Pacquaio hasn't looked like a dangerous fighter for quite a long time now, - he doesn't seem to have the fire in his belly any more. I am not sure Pacman is really in love with boxing or hungry enough any longer.

Agree with most of this post. . Feel that some of the stuffing got knocked out of pac with the savage knock out by jjm, plus stepping up so many levels hasn't been kind to pac

[jamesmcdonnell]

It's easy to either overrate or underrate Floyd.

Part of the problem is that he has seldom been pushed hard, and that creates the illusion that all of his opponents were mediocre, which is not correct.

Obviously, he wasn't in the era of Leonard, Hagler, et.al. but we can't really punish him for the competition not being as stellar - he beat everyone out there, and beat them with ease in almost every case.

I struggle whether to put him in the top 10 or not, there's a lot of competition for top 10 spots, Leonard, Duran, Armstrong, Robinson, Ali, Moore, to name but a handful - top 20, I'd say somewhere around there.

Had he fought Pacquaio 5 years earlier, I think he gets far more props, because Pacquaio hasn't looked like a dangerous fighter for quite a long time now, - he doesn't seem to have the fire in his belly any more. I am not sure Pacman is really in love with boxing or hungry enough any longer.

Agree with most of this post. . Feel that some of the stuffing got knocked out of pac with the savage knock out by jjm, plus stepping up so many levels hasn't been kind to pac

Yes, he isn't as destructive at 147, but I also think that is partly because he lost his hunger as well as the fact he is fighting bigger men now.

[SNG]

Whilst i think you're both right regarding Pac even at this higher weight after Cotto he had an aura of destructiveness, remember the way Clottey covered up and offered no offence for 12 rounds? If May had fought him then or after Cotto I think a lot of people would be ranking him that little bit higher.

[ajwesty13]

Yes, he isn't as destructive at 147, but I also think that is partly because he lost his hunger as well as the fact he is fighting bigger men now.

Yeah can't argue with that, he lost a lot of his effective power at 147. ..

Whilst i think you're both right regarding Pac even at this higher weight after Cotto he had an aura of destructiveness, remember the way Clottey covered up and offered no offence for 12 rounds? If May had fought him then or after Cotto I think a lot of people would be ranking him that little bit higher.

I would have liked to have seen the pac v MW pre or post cotto instead of the flop we had to witness.. but I still would have backed MW to win but not so wide. ..