Great Fighters who never got a shot at the title.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 19 Jan 2006, 23:01

Name some of the best never to get a shot. Give your thoughts on why.I know about Charley Burley but there are alot more.

barry · Post by **barry** » 19 Jan 2006, 23:11

Sam Langford
Jock McAvoy
Joe Jeannette
Sam McVey
Mike Gibbons
Packey McFarland
Al Gainer
Teddy Yarosz
Lloyd Marshall
Jeff Clark
Eddie Booker
Jack Chase
Holman Williams
Jack Blackburn
Jimmy Bivins
George Cole
Larry Gains
George Godfrey
Kid Norfolk
Harry Wills
Peter Jackson
Dave Holly
Bert Lytell
Jack McVey
George Courtney
Tommy Gomez
Elmer Ray
Cocoa Kid
Art Hafey
Phil Zwick

And a whole bunch more!

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 19 Jan 2006, 23:22

Great list. I always found Jimmy Bivins and Holman Williams' careers to be otstanding also.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 20 Jan 2006, 00:28

i was going to say tiger jack foxx but he did fight for the NYSCA light-H title vs bettina. what happened in that fight? was bettina the better fighter? i think i read something was wrong with foxx going into that fight. like he got stabbed recnetley or something.

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 20 Jan 2006, 00:31

barry wrote:Sam Langford
Jock McAvoy
Joe Jeannette
Sam McVey
Mike Gibbons
Packey McFarland
Al Gainer
Teddy Yarosz
Lloyd Marshall
Jeff Clark
Eddie Booker
Jack Chase
Holman Williams
Jack Blackburn
Jimmy Bivins
George Cole
Larry Gains
George Godfrey
Kid Norfolk
Harry Wills
Peter Jackson
Dave Holly
Bert Lytell
Jack McVey
George Courtney
Tommy Gomez
Elmer Ray
Cocoa Kid
Art Hafey
Phil Zwick

And a whole bunch more!

Look at all the HOFers (or should be HOFers) on that list...amazing.

Bivins, the big three of Langford, McVey and Jeannette, Holman Williams and Harry Wills in particular are probably all in my top 25-50 fighters of all-time list (haven't put one together in a long while).

kovit · Post by **kovit** » 20 Jan 2006, 03:39

Fred Fulton

kovit · Post by **kovit** » 20 Jan 2006, 05:09

You forgot Charley Burley he never got a shot at the title.

Boxscribe · Post by **Boxscribe** » 20 Jan 2006, 06:18

Burley was mentioned in the first post. Most people are no aware of his career and lack of a world title chance.

Holman Williams and Eddie Booker are standouts in the same area as Burley. How Booker and Williams are not in the IBHOF is beyond me.

Williams was on the ballot again this year, but never got in. It's a crime.

http://www.charleyburley.com

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 20 Jan 2006, 07:16

Great list. Jock McAvoy did fight John Henry Lewis for the LH title in 1936 but lost on points. How about Les Darcy?

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 20 Jan 2006, 07:26

Decagon wrote:I might not call Fred Fulton a "great fighter." People I know who've met him said that he was a great guy, but most of the name fighters he beat were past their respective primes.

Yes, and most would not call Ray Mercer a great fighter either.

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 20 Jan 2006, 07:58

Jock McAvoy was a MIDDLEWEIGHT..!

The American boxing powers of that day MADE SURE Ol' Jock wasn't getting anywhere near a Title he would UNDOUBTABLY have won (American property and all). As for his 'shot' at L-HW, John Henry Lewis is one of the GREATEST L-HW's who have ever lived and Ol' Jock took him the full course - just ask a simple question;

"would any of the other 'leading' middles of the time been able to do the same?"

Ol' Jock also spanked the FEARED L-HW cum HW Al 'kid' McCoy, who fought Joe Louis for the HW Title!

Most of the oldtime (fans, scribes, boxing personel) who have seen them ALL and right up to very recently, including Turpin, Downes, Benn, Eubank and Company - rate Ol' Jock McAvoy "the Rochdale Thunderbolt" as THEE BEST British middleweight and among the Top Greatest fighters this small Nation has ever produced!

Damn Yanks!

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 20 Jan 2006, 08:40

Not sure Jock McAvoy is the greatest MW from Britain, that one would go to Bob Fitz for my money, as long as hes counted as a Brit. Id find it hard to rate McAvoy higher than Nigel Benn, or even Len Harvey from his own generation. Difficult to compare Benn etc with these old timers though.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 20 Jan 2006, 16:46

Ezzard Charles at light heavyweight. It's a shame, because that was his best weight.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 20 Jan 2006, 21:26

Should mention George Benton also. Although some may disagree wether he was a great fighter or not. I would be interested to hear some opinions of him as both a fighter and trainer.

kovit · Post by **kovit** » 21 Jan 2006, 02:01

How about Sugar Ray Seales?

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 21 Jan 2006, 02:40

Seales lost nearly all of the bouts against top contenders he had. He doesn't fit the bill.

kovit · Post by **kovit** » 21 Jan 2006, 05:22

Dave Sands the same Austrailian middleweight contender who twice beat Carl "Bobo" Olson would have got a shot at Sugar Ray Robinson's title if he haven't got himself killed in an automobile accident and Sands has a impressive record.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 09 Jun 2006, 10:03

Del Flanagan won over 100 fights, started his career at 51-0-1 and defeated the likes of Sandy Saddler, Jackie Graves, Beau Jack, Lester Felton, Willie Pastrano, Johnny Saxton, Johnny Bratton, Jimmy Martinez twice, Kid Gavilan, Ralph Jones, Virgil Akins, Gil Turner and Ralph Dupas, beat quality opposition from LW to MW, and never got a shot at a World title.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 09 Jun 2006, 10:28

I'm still going with Mauro Mina.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 09 Jun 2006, 13:07

The Great John L wrote:
Decagon wrote:I might not call Fred Fulton a "great fighter." People I know who've met him said that he was a great guy, but most of the name fighters he beat were past their respective primes.
Yes, and most would not call Ray Mercer a great fighter either.

I wouldn't consider Ray Mercer a "great" fighter either. However he is more deserving than some of the people on the list such as Phil Zwick, Tommy Gomez, George Courtney, and George Cole.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 09 Jun 2006, 13:16

Ambling Alp wrote:
The Great John L wrote:
Decagon wrote:I might not call Fred Fulton a "great fighter." People I know who've met him said that he was a great guy, but most of the name fighters he beat were past their respective primes.
Yes, and most would not call Ray Mercer a great fighter either.
I wouldn't consider Ray Mercer a "great" fighter either. However he is more deserving than some of the people on the list such as Phil Zwick, Tommy Gomez, George Courtney, and George Cole.

You'll get no disagreement from me.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 09 Jun 2006, 18:15

The other case you could make for Mercer is that he may be the best heavyweight in recent years not to receive a title shot.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 10 Jun 2006, 12:46

In this moment, by heart, I remember this

José Carattoli
Mauro Mina
Eduardo Lausse
Rafael Merentino
Andy Price (I don't know if he was a great fighter, but he beat Pipino Cuevas and Carlos Palomino)
Charles Humez
Niño Valdez
Ernesto Miranda (two drews with Eder Jofre and a victory over Chartchai Chionoi)
Justo Suárez
Victorio Campolo
Alberto Lovell
Al Bummy Davis
Johnny Risko
Percy Bassett
Kiyoshi Tanabe

and many others...

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 10 Jun 2006, 14:26

Martin

From your part of the world, I'd also add Dogomar Martinez of Uruguay, who defeated Mauro Mina.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 10 Jun 2006, 19:56

Seamus,

You are right! "Dogo" was a great fighter

Thanks!

Great Fighters who never got a shot at the title.

Great Fighters who never got a shot at the title.

re

Re: re

McAvoy