If Froch had fought Calzaghe in 2007....

[SteveDow]

Would he have gone on to have the great career that he had?

This is something I've thought about a fair bit recently and would be interested to get people's views.

Obviously there was much talk from Froch about wanting the Calzaghe fight in 2007 and 2008 before he broke on to the world stage. Clearly at the time it would have been a big payday for Froch and even a gallant defeat would have propelled his name more on to the world stage. However, in my view, not getting this fight was the best thing that could have happened to Froch. I think he would have lost to Calzaghe pretty convincingly on points. I'm not saying for one minute that Calzaghe would have beaten him up like he did Jeff Lacy but I think it would have been far more convincing a win than he had against Kessler for example and could well have totally damaged Froch's confidence going forward as well as his world rankings which would have made getting a world title shot much harder.

Was a real blessing in disguise for Froch.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I agree - Froch could well have taken a pasting from Calzaghe and a big dent in his confidence.

Then again, Calzaghe was some way past his best in 2007, so it might have been quite a close fight, similar to Calzaghe v Kessler.

[ILikeBeer]

Possibly. Sometimes a fighter being avoided does them more good than anything else.

We'll never know though.

[johnswan1]

I'm not sure how much of an impact it would have had. Ward beat Froch just as convincingly as most people would expect JC to, yet Carl came straight back to smash Bute to pieces.

If he had fought JC and lost he would have still had to rebuild and prove himself via. Pascal, Taylor, Super 6 etc.

If he had fought JC and won, then that would be a different story. It may have led to a rematch with JC or he would have become a big enough name to get the likes of Taylor over to the UK. He still would probably have attempted to unify against Ward and Bute, while the Kessler fight would also have been inevitable given the style match up.

I don't think his career would have been that much different with or without JC, but if he had beaten JC he may have fought less frequently or retired earlier (e.g. before Groves came onto the scene).

[WildWaylon]

Calzaghe would have won on points, no doubt in my mind.

[SNG]

It may have stopped Carl getting into the super six and stopping some of the exciting fights we saw, and he'd have been left picking off second tier guys till the super six finished as I'm sure Bute would have got his place. Could have been a nightmare for him. I always wondered if Frazier would have been a champion of Ali hadn't been banned.

[Noxy]

Also would Carl have had the career he had were
it not for the Super Six. He did really well from that, not all fighters get those opportunities,
even when they're champions

[stujones]

I think the round robin approach of the Super 6 helped Froch..... had he just lost to Kessler, then he might have got frozen out of it.

I think Calzaghe beating Froch in 2007 would have had a huge bearing on his career. He was a late bloomer in terms of "Super Star" status - that loss would have been catastrophic.

[aquinas]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing ... -pair.html

Interesting stuff from Warren about Froch turning down the fight twice.

[ILikeBeer]

What would've happened if Lennox gave Klitschko the rematch?

[jamesmcdonnell]

It may have stopped Carl getting into the super six and stopping some of the exciting fights we saw, and he'd have been left picking off second tier guys till the super six finished as I'm sure Bute would have got his place. Could have been a nightmare for him. I always wondered if Frazier would have been a champion of Ali hadn't been banned.

I tell you this much, Calzaghe would have had to have been lead at gunpoint to the super six. No way would he have fancied that one bit.

[ILikeBeer]

It may have stopped Carl getting into the super six and stopping some of the exciting fights we saw, and he'd have been left picking off second tier guys till the super six finished as I'm sure Bute would have got his place. Could have been a nightmare for him. I always wondered if Frazier would have been a champion of Ali hadn't been banned.

I tell you this much, Calzaghe would have had to have been lead at gunpoint to the super six. No way would he have fancied that one bit.

He'd sign up to it, no problem.

The issue would've arrived the day before his opening fight when he injured his hand.

[Boxerbeetle]

It may have stopped Carl getting into the super six and stopping some of the exciting fights we saw, and he'd have been left picking off second tier guys till the super six finished as I'm sure Bute would have got his place. Could have been a nightmare for him. I always wondered if Frazier would have been a champion of Ali hadn't been banned.

I tell you this much, Calzaghe would have had to have been lead at gunpoint to the super six. No way would he have fancied that one bit.

Really? The only reason the Super Six was set-up was to establish the division number 1 after Calzaghe retired. Who would Calzaghe have feared in the line-up? No-one, by my reckoning - Ward & Dirrell were both inexperienced & unproven, he'd already beaten Kessler, would have completely out-boxed Froch & AA, and would have retired Taylor. (Obviously it wasn't clear just how good Ward was when the tournament was announced)

[jamesmcdonnell]

It may have stopped Carl getting into the super six and stopping some of the exciting fights we saw, and he'd have been left picking off second tier guys till the super six finished as I'm sure Bute would have got his place. Could have been a nightmare for him. I always wondered if Frazier would have been a champion of Ali hadn't been banned.

I tell you this much, Calzaghe would have had to have been lead at gunpoint to the super six. No way would he have fancied that one bit.

Really? The only reason the Super Six was set-up was to establish the division number 1 after Calzaghe retired. Who would Calzaghe have feared in the line-up? No-one, by my reckoning - Ward & Dirrell were both inexperienced & unproven, he'd already beaten Kessler, would have completely out-boxed Froch & AA, and would have retired Taylor. (Obviously it wasn't clear just how good Ward was when the tournament was announced)

]

I am talking hypothetically about Calzaghe at a SIMILAR STAGE IN HIS CAREER TO FROCH - entering the super six, not in 2007 when he was gone.

Given that he claimed for years to be terrified of flying as an excuse for not fighting in America, yet somehow miraculously overcame this debilitating condition to fight Hopkins, and the ghost of RJJ - the same RJJ he wrote of in his own autobiography - describing him as a shell of the fighter he had once been.

Calzaghe had to be virtually begged by his father to take the Lacy fight, he was so terrified of risking his unbeaten record, and Calzaghe Sr is on record as saying that himself.

Calzaghe hid behind his WBO belt for years, always having home advantage and basically getting to choose who he defended his title against pretty much at will - so complicit were the WBO - he would NEVER have had the bollox to enter something like the super six, absolutely no way. The old horseshit about being terrified of flying would have come out again.

[whiskey]

[Boxerbeetle]

I tell you this much, Calzaghe would have had to have been lead at gunpoint to the super six. No way would he have fancied that one bit.

Really? The only reason the Super Six was set-up was to establish the division number 1 after Calzaghe retired. Who would Calzaghe have feared in the line-up? No-one, by my reckoning - Ward & Dirrell were both inexperienced & unproven, he'd already beaten Kessler, would have completely out-boxed Froch & AA, and would have retired Taylor. (Obviously it wasn't clear just how good Ward was when the tournament was announced)

I am talking hypothetically about Calzaghe at a SIMILAR STAGE IN HIS CAREER TO FROCH - entering the super six, not in 2007 when he was gone.

Given that he claimed for years to be terrified of flying as an excuse for not fighting in America, yet somehow miraculously overcame this debilitating condition to fight Hopkins, and the ghost of RJJ - the same RJJ he wrote of in his own autobiography - describing him as a shell of the fighter he had once been.

Calzaghe had to be virtually begged by his father to take the Lacy fight, he was so terrified of risking his unbeaten record, and Calzaghe Sr is on record as saying that himself.

Calzaghe hid behind his WBO belt for years, always having home advantage and basically getting to choose who he defended his title against pretty much at will - so complicit were the WBO - he would NEVER have had the bollox to enter something like the super six, absolutely no way. The old horseshit about being terrified of flying would have come out again.

The emboldened bit is all you needed to say - 100% agree Calzaghe wouldn't have entered at a similar stage in his career to Froch

[jamesmcdonnell]

I know, sickening isn't it.

Then he goes and fights Jones after he's been knocked senseless several times and is shot to bits.

Completely classless move that from Calzaghe.

I rate Calzaghe as a fighter, but I don't care much for him as a personality.

[magwitch]

I tell you this much, Calzaghe would have had to have been lead at gunpoint to the super six. No way would he have fancied that one bit.

Really? The only reason the Super Six was set-up was to establish the division number 1 after Calzaghe retired. Who would Calzaghe have feared in the line-up? No-one, by my reckoning - Ward & Dirrell were both inexperienced & unproven, he'd already beaten Kessler, would have completely out-boxed Froch & AA, and would have retired Taylor. (Obviously it wasn't clear just how good Ward was when the tournament was announced)

]

I am talking hypothetically about Calzaghe at a SIMILAR STAGE IN HIS CAREER TO FROCH - entering the super six, not in 2007 when he was gone.

Given that he claimed for years to be terrified of flying as an excuse for not fighting in America, yet somehow miraculously overcame this debilitating condition to fight Hopkins, and the ghost of RJJ - the same RJJ he wrote of in his own autobiography - describing him as a shell of the fighter he had once been.

Calzaghe had to be virtually begged by his father to take the Lacy fight, he was so terrified of risking his unbeaten record, and Calzaghe Sr is on record as saying that himself.

Calzaghe hid behind his WBO belt for years, always having home advantage and basically getting to choose who he defended his title against pretty much at will - so complicit were the WBO - he would NEVER have had the bollox to enter something like the super six, absolutely no way. The old horseshit about being terrified of flying would have come out again.

You make him sound like Gollum off LOTR....calling his WBO belt "my prrrecioussss"...

It's true tho - the numptey DID want to pull out versus Lacy - which for someone of his ability I find staggering. At no point does JC sit down and watch a Lacy fight and think "oh sh*t, what am I up against?" - no way. Too good. Perhaps his mindset was small town in the Welsh valley....maybe he had his trinket and was happy to keep it by hook or by crook....maybe he didn't dare risk the cash loss of losing it.

For a guy that believes he is in the top 5 boxers EVER, I am staggered that Enzo had to make him fight Jeff Lacy.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I think that's precisely it - he was more concerned about keeping his belts and his unblemished record, than he was retiring with a great legacy.

He came very close to pissing away his career in that fashion - had he pulled out of the Lacy fight, I don't think the Kessler and Hopkins fights would have happened - and we would all be saying that his career was a complete waste of time.

As it is he still squandered many of his prime years fighting no hopers, - whilst Ottke wasn't keen on the fight, Calzaghe never exerted any pressure either, nor did he look to fight Mad Larsen, Markus Beyer, or a number of other leading lights who were around at the same time.

[GPTM1403]

It may have stopped Carl getting into the super six and stopping some of the exciting fights we saw, and he'd have been left picking off second tier guys till the super six finished as I'm sure Bute would have got his place. Could have been a nightmare for him. I always wondered if Frazier would have been a champion of Ali hadn't been banned.

I tell you this much, Calzaghe would have had to have been lead at gunpoint to the super six. No way would he have fancied that one bit.

why?

[jamesmcdonnell]

It may have stopped Carl getting into the super six and stopping some of the exciting fights we saw, and he'd have been left picking off second tier guys till the super six finished as I'm sure Bute would have got his place. Could have been a nightmare for him. I always wondered if Frazier would have been a champion of Ali hadn't been banned.

I tell you this much, Calzaghe would have had to have been lead at gunpoint to the super six. No way would he have fancied that one bit.

why?

I believe this has been covered elsewhere in this thread.

[SNG]

I find it a bit of stretch to criticise Calzaghe for not going to LHW sooner when Froch never made the trip, and stated himself he wouldn't even go to 175 to fight Calzaghe himself.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I find it a bit of stretch to criticise Calzaghe for not going to LHW sooner when Froch never made the trip, and stated himself he wouldn't even go to 175 to fight Calzaghe himself.

Nobody is criticising him not moving to 175 - the point is that he himself said he wouldn't want to face Jones Jr in his prime, but was happy to fight the shell of him when he knew he was shot to pieces.

[GPTM1403]

I believe this has been covered elsewhere in this thread.

Hadn't gone up when asked. OK I think Calzaghe wasted his best years by not pushing more but equally find it odd people can remember how he had to be convinced to fight Lacey but not the reason - yet more hand problems - and are trying to make out he was scared.

[banjo]

I find it a bit of stretch to criticise Calzaghe for not going to LHW sooner when Froch never made the trip, and stated himself he wouldn't even go to 175 to fight Calzaghe himself.

Nobody is criticising him not moving to 175 - the point is that he himself said he wouldn't want to face Jones Jr in his prime, but was happy to fight the shell of him when he knew he was shot to pieces.

Well he said he would have fought Jones in his prime if he got paid right, higher risk demands a higher reward.