Aaron Pryor & Sugar Ray Leonard

[knockouts67]

Pryor was actually too small I believe for any of the top Welterweight Champions-----Arguello might have beat him if it was not for that bottle---You cannot mix water with water--something was in there---Pryor was great but I cannot see him beating Cuevas in his prime, for example.----watch the Dujuan Johnson fight---He almost knocked Pryor's head off---If he was more composed and not so wild Pryor could have been in trouble there.

[Ambling Alp II]

I don't get the "too small" argument. Lightweights and fighters below even that weight move up to welterweight successfully routinely.
Pryor was great at 140; we are only talking about 7 pounds here.

Armstrong, Ross,McLarnin, Napoles, Duran De la Hoya, etc. successfully moved up to welterweight and started out their careers smaller than Pryor.

Pryor was only 5'6, but there have been welterweight greats around that height.
Napoles, Rodriquez, were just 5'8, Ross was just 5'7.
Basilio was just 5'6 and half. McClarnin was 5'6, the same as Pryor.
Henry Armstrong was just 5'5 and half, slightly shorter than Pryor.

He beat Arguello who was 5'10. Cuevas and Palomino themselves were just 5'8.

Not saying that Pryor would beat many of these guys. But to dismiss him because of size doesn't make sense.

[elmersalsa]

Pryor was actually too small I believe for any of the top Welterweight Champions-----Arguello might have beat him if it was not for that bottle---You cannot mix water with water--something was in there---Pryor was great but I cannot see him beating Cuevas in his prime, for example.----watch the Dujuan Johnson fight---He almost knocked Pryor's head off---If he was more composed and not so wild Pryor could have been in trouble there.

DuJuan Johnson lost because of inexperience.

[knockouts67]

Pryor was actually too small I believe for any of the top Welterweight Champions-----Arguello might have beat him if it was not for that bottle---You cannot mix water with water--something was in there---Pryor was great but I cannot see him beating Cuevas in his prime, for example.----watch the Dujuan Johnson fight---He almost knocked Pryor's head off---If he was more composed and not so wild Pryor could have been in trouble there.

DuJuan Johnson lost because of inexperience.

He lost his mind and was winging punches to no end---as wild as i ever saw---experience did play a role in that----I just feel he was a small jr welter and cuevas,palomino,leonard, etc all would have beat him

[elmersalsa]

Pryor was actually too small I believe for any of the top Welterweight Champions-----Arguello might have beat him if it was not for that bottle---You cannot mix water with water--something was in there---Pryor was great but I cannot see him beating Cuevas in his prime, for example.----watch the Dujuan Johnson fight---He almost knocked Pryor's head off---If he was more composed and not so wild Pryor could have been in trouble there.

DuJuan Johnson lost because of inexperience.

He lost his mind and was winging punches to no end---as wild as i ever saw---experience did play a role in that----I just feel he was a small jr welter and cuevas,palomino,leonard, etc all would have beat him

I agree with you, brother

[Ambling Alp II]

Pryor was actually too small I believe for any of the top Welterweight Champions-----Arguello might have beat him if it was not for that bottle---You cannot mix water with water--something was in there---Pryor was great but I cannot see him beating Cuevas in his prime, for example.----watch the Dujuan Johnson fight---He almost knocked Pryor's head off---If he was more composed and not so wild Pryor could have been in trouble there.

DuJuan Johnson lost because of inexperience.

He lost his mind and was winging punches to no end---as wild as i ever saw---experience did play a role in that----I just feel he was a small jr welter and cuevas,palomino,leonard, etc all would have beat him

You need to draw a distinction between Palomino and Cuevas and others. Palomino and Cuevas were not much bigger than Pryor and not as good.
Sure you can point to a bad round that Pryor had. You also have to take into consider the all the good moments he had as well as the bad fights Cuevas and Palomino had.

Andy Price beat both Cuevas and Palomino. Andy Price.
Cuevas did not just lose to Hearns, got his head handed to him. He also lost to Roger Stafford.
Palomino and Cuevas were good fighters but they were hardly legends.

[elmersalsa]

Pipino Cuevas is a legend in Mexico

[knockouts67]

I said top welterweight champions---I never said they were legends----Pryor never beat a solid weterweight---7 lbs is a lot for a smaller guy---He was dropped and hurt by much smaller guys---Cervantes,Kameda, etc-----He would struggle against any of the decent welterweight champs---I do not believe he could beat most of them

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Pipino Cuevas is a legend in Mexico

YOU SAID IT ALL................................HE'S A LEGEND IN MEXICO IS'NT HE MEXICAN

PS............I THOUGHT THIS WAS A DREAM MATCH BETWEEN LEONARD V PRYOR
NOT A AARON PRYOR BASHATHON

[elmersalsa]

Pipino Cuevas is a legend in Mexico

YOU SAID IT ALL................................HE'S A LEGEND IN MEXICO IS'NT HE MEXICAN

PS............I THOUGHT THIS WAS A DREAM MATCH BETWEEN LEONARD V PRYOR
NOT A AARON PRYOR BASHATHON

If the great Aaron Pryor can't beat a top welter champ, definitely, he is not going to beat a complete fighter like the great Sugar Ray Leonard. I just don't think he could handle a fighter of real welterweight power.

[jaclem3]

....thank you, buzzy, for helping me to stay in retirement on this subject....

[Ambling Alp II]

I said top welterweight champions---I never said they were legends----Pryor never beat a solid weterweight---7 lbs is a lot for a smaller guy---He was dropped and hurt by much smaller guys---Cervantes,Kameda, etc-----He would struggle against any of the decent welterweight champs---I do not believe he could beat most of them

I don't think moving up a weight class 7 pounds is that much to overcome if the smaller are better than the bigger guy.
It's been done over and over again.
Armstrong won the welterweight title when he weighed 133 1/2 pounds.
Ross barely weighed more than 140 in his welterweight title fights.

It's not like Pryor is going to weigh in at 140 anyway. He had to get down to 140 to fight for the Jr welterweight title. He probably weighs in around 144-145 if he fights Palomino or Cuevas; that is hardly noticeable.

Yes Pryor got dropped a coupe of times; so does almost everyone. He got up stopped them both.

Look at Cuevas and his defense and chin.

I would pick the true greats like Armstrong, Ross, Napoles, Griffith, Leonard, Hearns etc. to beat Pryor. But not because of size. (As mentioned some weren't bigger anyway). But because they were better.

Cuevas and Palomino, while good fighters, were certainly beatable by a really good fighter who was a little smaller.

[knockouts67]

The fact that Arguello gave him hell does not bode well for him---Arguello's best weight was junior Lightweight-----Pryor running in against a guy like Cuevas---who hits harder than anybody he fought by far---would be a problem-----either way---no one knows for sure and that makes this stuff great to imagine----Be well!

[elmersalsa]

The fact that Arguello gave him hell does not bode well for him---Arguello's best weight was junior Lightweight-----Pryor running in against a guy like Cuevas---who hits harder than anybody he fought by far---would be a problem-----either way---no one knows for sure and that makes this stuff great to imagine----Be well!

I imagine a NASTY KNOCKOUT win by Pipino Cuevas

[Ambling Alp II]

The fact that Arguello gave him hell does not bode well for him---Arguello's best weight was junior Lightweight-----Pryor running in against a guy like Cuevas---who hits harder than anybody he fought by far---would be a problem-----either way---no one knows for sure and that makes this stuff great to imagine----Be well!

Arguello looked great at 126,130,135,140. He gradually grew into the weight as he matured. He whipped some pretty good fighters at 135 and 140. I think he would have just about anybody hell at 140.
I didn't mean to give the impression that this was a sure thing against Cuevas (or Palomino for that matter).
However, what hard puncher did Cuevas ever stand up to? There some guys who could crack, but nothing special. Look at his title defenses; some decent fighters but not exactly the who's who in boxing history.
And Pryor wasn't just a hard puncher, he was relentless. He just kept coming and coming.
But you are right, the fights never happened so we can just imagine. Be well yourself.

[elmersalsa]

The greats Sugar Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran would've sent the great Aaron Pryor back to the Jr. Welterweights. The same would've happened with Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Palomino or Felix "Tito" Trinidad or any other welter with excellent power. All these guys would've have sent The Hawk back to 140lbs. All he ever wanted was a fight with Sugar Ray. Why? Because he had something to prove? Noooo!
It was all about the dollars. Leonard at 147 match would've been the biggest payday of Pryor's career. That's all to it.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

The greats Sugar Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran would've sent the great Aaron Pryor back to the Jr. Welterweights. The same would've happened with Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Palomino or Felix "Tito" Trinidad or any other welter with excellent power. All these guys would've have sent The Hawk back to 140lbs. All he ever wanted was a fight with Sugar Ray. Why? Because he had something to prove? Noooo!
It was all about the dollars. Leonard at 147 match would've been the biggest payday of Pryor's career. That's all to it.

Well elmersalsa Pryor was a bum I just wish one day before he gets to old to get out of his wheelchair you get to tell him to his face that would
be fu..ing funny to see if you have the power to send him to gar gar land you'd think Pryor was knockout every time he met someone with pop
in his glove's THIS OF CAUSE IS CRAP

[elmersalsa]

The greats Sugar Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran would've sent the great Aaron Pryor back to the Jr. Welterweights. The same would've happened with Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Palomino or Felix "Tito" Trinidad or any other welter with excellent power. All these guys would've have sent The Hawk back to 140lbs. All he ever wanted was a fight with Sugar Ray. Why? Because he had something to prove? Noooo!
It was all about the dollars. Leonard at 147 match would've been the biggest payday of Pryor's career. That's all to it.

Well elmersalsa Pryor was a bum I just wish one day before he gets to old to get out of his wheelchair you get to tell him to his face that would
be fu..ing funny to see if you have the power to send him to gar gar land you'd think Pryor was knockout every time he met someone with pop
in his glove's THIS OF CAUSE IS CRAP

Aaron Pryor was not a bum. He was a great fighter. I have him in my top 100 p4p atgs. But, I think the 147lbs division would've been too much for The Hawk to overcome. Like I have said before, he doesn't lose to Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Palomino or Felix "Tito" Trinidad not because they were more talented than Pryor. It would be because they would be bigger and stronger than he. I only could picture a NASTY KNOCKOUT, especially, if he fights Tito or Pipino.

The same I picture the greats Roberto Duran or Sugar Ray Leonard challenging a devastating puncher like Julian Jackson at 154lbs or at middleweight. Both of them, in my view lose to The Hawk of the US Virgin Islands by a NASTY KNOCKOUT.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

elmersalsa now I have heard it all I think i'v said this before on this forum and I'd bet it was to you Jackson who would given who a nasty ko
did you ever see the former flyweight world champ that went on to win world title's at welterweight and jr middleweight look it up you'll
learn something new and if you keep researching you start to realise that there has been quite a few fighter's move up in weight with a BANG

[elmersalsa]

elmersalsa now I have heard it all I think i'v said this before on this forum and I'd bet it was to you Jackson who would given who a nasty ko
did you ever see the former flyweight world champ that went on to win world title's at welterweight and jr middleweight look it up you'll
learn something new and if you keep researching you start to realise that there has been quite a few fighter's move up in weight with a BANG

If you trying to say the great Manny Pacquiao? A flyweight winning titles all the way to Jr middleweight? Put him in the ring with Julian Jackson and The Hawk would've put him out of orbit and send him back to wherever Pacman belongs. Can you imagine Pacman vs The Hawk Jackson?

[ClivePatrickLyons]

elmersalsa now I have heard it all I think i'v said this before on this forum and I'd bet it was to you Jackson who would given who a nasty ko
did you ever see the former flyweight world champ that went on to win world title's at welterweight and jr middleweight look it up you'll
learn something new and if you keep researching you start to realise that there has been quite a few fighter's move up in weight with a BANG

If you trying to say the great Manny Pacquiao? A flyweight winning titles all the way to Jr middleweight? Put him in the ring with Julian Jackson and The Hawk would've put him out of orbit and send him back to wherever Pacman belongs. Can you imagine Pacman vs The Hawk Jackson?

Taka a breath breath slowly and read properly before you start running off at the lip's mate what I said was fighter's have moved up a number of weight division's with success you keep claiming Pryor would be too small to fight with half a stone more on his frame what a lot of sh.t
some fighter's do struggle when moving up in weight sometime's a lesser fighter will beat a better fighter because of weight ok you got that you reading slowly........... some fighter's like I said move up in weight with a BANG you still with me some struggle when they do hope your still with me if your are you'll get it sooner or laterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr D
the weight would not have been a problem with sugar ray it would be ability leonard was the better fighter but against cuevas/palomino
THE WEIGHT WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM
PS......Jackson lost 6 time's all by KNOCKOUT

[Ambling Alp II]

elmersalsa now I have heard it all I think i'v said this before on this forum and I'd bet it was to you Jackson who would given who a nasty ko
did you ever see the former flyweight world champ that went on to win world title's at welterweight and jr middleweight look it up you'll
learn something new and if you keep researching you start to realise that there has been quite a few fighter's move up in weight with a BANG

If you trying to say the great Manny Pacquiao? A flyweight winning titles all the way to Jr middleweight? Put him in the ring with Julian Jackson and The Hawk would've put him out of orbit and send him back to wherever Pacman belongs. Can you imagine Pacman vs The Hawk Jackson?

Taka a breath breath slowly and read properly before you start running off at the lip's mate what I said was fighter's have moved up a number of weight division's with success you keep claiming Pryor would be too small to fight with half a stone more on his frame what a lot of sh.t
some fighter's do struggle when moving up in weight sometime's a lesser fighter will beat a better fighter because of weight ok you got that you reading slowly........... some fighter's like I said move up in weight with a BANG you still with me some struggle when they do hope your still with me if your are you'll get it sooner or laterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr D
the weight would not have been a problem with sugar ray it would be ability leonard was the better fighter but against cuevas/palomino
THE WEIGHT WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM
PS......Jackson lost 6 time's all by KNOCKOUT

The difficulty in moving up in weight is often overrated. The difference between say 147 and 154 is no bigger than say a heavyweight who weighs 220 and another who weighs 230. If the guy who weighs 220 is obviously better, than most people would not think twice about picking the smaller guy.

We have seen it over and over where a fighter moves up in weight and is successful against a fighter that he is better than. Yet over and over people just dismiss the fighter from the lower weight class like it can't be done. Makes no sense.

[elmersalsa]

Going up in weight is a BIG DIFFERENCE for any fighter below the heavyweights. Especially, if you have to fight someone as good as you and you are just coming into his weight class. You're not accustomed to the weight. It also depends the frame of the fighter. Aaron Pryor was a great fighter at lightweight and Jr.welterweight. But, I believe that 7 more pounds would be a BIG DIFFERENCE if he was to come up and fight the great Sugar Ray Leonard at 147.

[Ambling Alp II]

It's not a big deal for anyone; it's been proven time and time again that it isn't.
No, Pryor would not have beaten Ray Leonard. No one has disputed that on this thread. That's mainly because Leonard was too good.
However, Pryor could have beat many good welterweights.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Going up in weight is a BIG DIFFERENCE for any fighter below the heavyweights. Especially, if you have to fight someone as good as you and you are just coming into his weight class. You're not accustomed to the weight. It also depends the frame of the fighter. Aaron Pryor was a great fighter at lightweight and Jr.welterweight. But, I believe that 7 more pounds would be a BIG DIFFERENCE if he was to come up and fight the great Sugar Ray Leonard at 147.

Listen elmersalsa I would dearly love to agree with you on this I wish I was 10/11 stone
and then I could put on 7 pound's to find out how it feels well that's not going to happen
so what we need to do is study[research] some fighter's who go up in weight and how they'v
handled it the weight gain it comes down to each person's opinion I used Pacman as a example
theirs others to like the previous mentioned Arguello/Leonard/Armstrong etc etc etc and then
you have other's like THE GREAT De La Hoya when he went to super middle and middle it was to much but a great fighter like Pryor would not have lost at welterweight because he would have been too SMALL he may have struggled at super welter because of size his ability would have stood him in good stead against just about any welter of his time THAT I HAVE NO DOUB'T