James Toney at 175 vs...

[Seamus]

Michael Spinks (15rds)
Dwight Muhammad Qawi (15rds)
Virgil Hill (12rds)

What happens ?

[Ambling Alp II]

He isn't going to beat Qawi and Spinks. Loses clear decisions.
If he is in decent shape, and not lethargic, he should beat Hill.

[Counter-puncher]

He isn't going to beat Qawi and Spinks. Loses clear decisions.
If he is in decent shape, and not lethargic, he should beat Hill.

I couldn't really comment on Spinks, but whatever the result I think the Qawi fight would be epic (I suspect it would maybe be a little closer than you have it)

I think Hills refusal to stay still and engage would actually frustrate Toney, too. I don't think he would be cutting the ring off like he did with Nunn, in the middle-later period of his career. He never again showed the pure hunger and urgency that he showed in the Nunn fight. Pretty much a case where his natural gifts were enough that he realised he could mostly get by without working too hard, either in the gym or in the ring. But a mover-jabber like Hill would be the kind of guy who would bring Toney stylistic laziness into relief.

[Counter-puncher]

What I mean on hunger, against Nunn, Toney fought like he had something to prove, but, once proven, he pretty much fought like he had little or nothing to prove for the rest of his career.

[RedRyan]

Toney beats Spinks and Hill .

[keithmoonhangover]

I don't see him beating any of them. Spinks would win nearly every round. Dwight would win a closer fight. I think Hill outworks him. Toney wasn't that great at 175, in fact, he was beatable at all the weights.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

I don't see him beating any of them. Spinks would win nearly every round. Dwight would win a closer fight. I think Hill outworks him. Toney wasn't that great at 175, in fact, he was beatable at all the weights.

Mate your being a bit harsh Toney is one of the greatest defencive fighter's of his generation matter of fact ANY GENERATION
I agree with your comment about fighting at 175.....................Toney true[best] fighting weight is well below 175
I don't know if he would have beat any of the three mentioned especially Spinks but I would put money on it that none of the three
would stop him inside the distance if Toney shows up in shape he could beat Braxton and Hill

[Seamus]

I actually give Michael Spinks a shot at stopping Toney. He had tremendous one shot power and stamina, and if he really works his outstanding jab and waits for his opportunity to land the Spinks Jinx, I think he has a shot of scoring a late TKO. Remember, I said this one's a 15 rounder. A more likely result though is Spinks winning a very wide decision over a badly beaten Toney (picture Eddie Mustafa Muhammad).

In a Toney vs Qawi bout. Qawi is better in just about every conceivable category, with his biggest advantage being that he can fight at a more torrid pace over 15 than Toney can thru 10. His defense is probably better, as is his chin, and jab when he uses it. Conditioning isn't Toney biggest strong point, and Qawi's ability to throw sizzling punches for 15 rds is what I see as a the big difference here. My prediction there would be Qawi winning by something like 7 or 8 pts over 15.

I'm also of the opinion that Virgil Hill is also all wrong for Toney at 175. He jabs like hell, goes side to side, and comes into a fight in top shape. Toney makes this one closer, but this time instead of being hammered and outworked, I think he get's more frustrated by his inability to get into a rythym against Hill, and while Toney doesn't take a beating, at the end I see the score being something like 117-112 for Hill.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

I actually give Michael Spinks a shot at stopping Toney. He had tremendous one shot power and stamina, and if he really works his outstanding jab and waits for his opportunity to land the Spinks Jinx, I think he has a shot of scoring a late TKO. Remember, I said this one's a 15 rounder. A more likely result though is Spinks winning a very wide decision over a badly beaten Toney (picture Eddie Mustafa Muhammad).

In a Toney vs Qawi bout. Qawi is better in just about every conceivable category, with his biggest advantage being that he can fight at a more torrid pace over 15 than Toney can thru 10. His defense is probably better, as is his chin, and jab when he uses it. Conditioning isn't Toney biggest strong point, and Qawi's ability to throw sizzling punches for 15 rds is what I see as a the big difference here. My prediction there would be Qawi winning by something like 7 or 8 pts over 15.

I'm also of the opinion that Virgil Hill is also all wrong for Toney at 175. He jabs like hell, goes side to side, and comes into a fight in top shape. Toney makes this one closer, but this time instead of being hammered and outworked, I think he get's more frustrated by his inability to get into a rythym against Hill, and while Toney doesn't take a beating, at the end I see the score being something like 117-112 for Hill.

No arguement's except..................... Qawi better DEFENCE than Toney that's bullsh.. D

[keithmoonhangover]

I actually give Michael Spinks a shot at stopping Toney. He had tremendous one shot power and stamina, and if he really works his outstanding jab and waits for his opportunity to land the Spinks Jinx, I think he has a shot of scoring a late TKO. Remember, I said this one's a 15 rounder. A more likely result though is Spinks winning a very wide decision over a badly beaten Toney (picture Eddie Mustafa Muhammad).

In a Toney vs Qawi bout. Qawi is better in just about every conceivable category, with his biggest advantage being that he can fight at a more torrid pace over 15 than Toney can thru 10. His defense is probably better, as is his chin, and jab when he uses it. Conditioning isn't Toney biggest strong point, and Qawi's ability to throw sizzling punches for 15 rds is what I see as a the big difference here. My prediction there would be Qawi winning by something like 7 or 8 pts over 15.

I'm also of the opinion that Virgil Hill is also all wrong for Toney at 175. He jabs like hell, goes side to side, and comes into a fight in top shape. Toney makes this one closer, but this time instead of being hammered and outworked, I think he get's more frustrated by his inability to get into a rythym against Hill, and while Toney doesn't take a beating, at the end I see the score being something like 117-112 for Hill.

No arguement's except..................... Qawi better DEFENCE than Toney that's bullsh.. D

People like you make it sound like Toney's never been hit by anyone....ever and that he's the best defensive fighter in decades. All of which is bullsh1t. Toney's been beaten soundly on several occasions, many of which were in his prime. He also got gifted decisions. If his defence was that good, these loses wouldn't have happened. Losing to Montell Griffin twice? Do me a favour.

[keithmoonhangover]

I actually give Michael Spinks a shot at stopping Toney. He had tremendous one shot power and stamina, and if he really works his outstanding jab and waits for his opportunity to land the Spinks Jinx, I think he has a shot of scoring a late TKO. Remember, I said this one's a 15 rounder. A more likely result though is Spinks winning a very wide decision over a badly beaten Toney (picture Eddie Mustafa Muhammad).

In a Toney vs Qawi bout. Qawi is better in just about every conceivable category, with his biggest advantage being that he can fight at a more torrid pace over 15 than Toney can thru 10. His defense is probably better, as is his chin, and jab when he uses it. Conditioning isn't Toney biggest strong point, and Qawi's ability to throw sizzling punches for 15 rds is what I see as a the big difference here. My prediction there would be Qawi winning by something like 7 or 8 pts over 15.

I'm also of the opinion that Virgil Hill is also all wrong for Toney at 175. He jabs like hell, goes side to side, and comes into a fight in top shape. Toney makes this one closer, but this time instead of being hammered and outworked, I think he get's more frustrated by his inability to get into a rythym against Hill, and while Toney doesn't take a beating, at the end I see the score being something like 117-112 for Hill.

Excellent post mate. I agree on Spinks. He was a tremendous boxer.

[orbtastic]

175 was by no stretch either Toney's best weight or his best run of performances. In fact, it's hard to pick a single fight he had at that weight that gives any sort of indication that he is competitive with any of those ATGs at 175, much less win.

[keithmoonhangover]

175 was by no stretch either Toney's best weight or his best run of performances. In fact, it's hard to pick a single fight he had at that weight that gives any sort of indication that he is competitive with any of those ATGs at 175, much less win.

What would you say was his best weight?

[orbtastic]

Difficult to say. He had well documentated struggles with his weight and had some sub-par performances at 160 and 168.

For every McCallum fight there's a Tiberi. For every Littles or Barkley there's s a Jones.

Probably go with 160, personally.

He also has the Jirov win at cruiser but not much else up there. He beat Holyfield too but Holyfield was inconsistent at that particular time.

Think it's fair to say 175 was his worst run of form, particularly after it was mooted the Jones fight result was down to having to shed 40lbs ie you'd expect the not having to drain to 168 would have helped his performances but it's fair to say his head was clearly somewhere else after that loss. He just looked demotivated, disinterested and listless. How much of that was still having to drain to 175 is only a question he can answer.

Modern legend, either way. I just don't think he factors at light heavy because his actual performances there weren't great (in quotes).

[keithmoonhangover]

Difficult to say. He had well documentated struggles with his weight and had some sub-par performances at 160 and 168.

For every McCallum fight there's a Tiberi. For every Littles or Barkley there's s a Jones.

Probably go with 160, personally.

He also has the Jirov win at cruiser but not much else up there. He beat Holyfield too but Holyfield was inconsistent at that particular time.

Think it's fair to say 175 was his worst run of form, particularly after it was mooted the Jones fight result was down to having to shed 40lbs ie you'd expect the not having to drain to 168 would have helped his performances but it's fair to say his head was clearly somewhere else after that loss. He just looked demotivated, disinterested and listless. How much of that was still having to drain to 175 is only a question he can answer.

Modern legend, either way. I just don't think he factors at light heavy because his actual performances there weren't great (in quotes).

He's not an ATG at any particular weight. I think the Jirov result is blown out of all proportion. Jirov did nothing after the loss and didn't beat any standouts before it. People make it sounds like Jirov was monster, he wasn't.