wladimir - tyson who you got?

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yes, but to event suggest he's amongst the best is pretty ludicrous, a couple of wisecracks about underpants hardy makes you amongst the greatest entertainers in the history of boxing, either in or out of the ring.

Eubank and Hamed, John L Sullivan, Jack Dempsey, I mean Christ, he's just a guy who throws a few barbs around, hardly a compelling character.

I do find him mildly amusing at times, but it's pretty infantile stuff.

well, i for one believe he is among the
most entertaining fighters ever. but i
sense we differ in what we mean by that.

but cheers, man, nothing worth debating ...

Yeah, I'm not mad about it, just rather incredulous. I guess you're a big fan. I'm not, I don't dislike him, just see him as someone who did well for himself by being gobby, but not in a particularly clever or interesting way.

[dempseyfire]

This won't be the first time that I voice my opinion that Wlad is getting beat and Fury is going to make it look easy. The reactions that we'll get after that will be typical of idiot boxing fans. Some will JUMP on the Fury bandwagon praising him as the new Ali, others won't be able to keep their mouths shut about some off night or flue or who knows what but the fact is and will be that Wladimir just wasn't ever that good. If this guy would have been fighting in the crusierweight division he would never have become champ, lhw, smw, mw, jr mw, ww enough said. He's been able to get by on a strange combination of hiding behind his brother, size, improving skills but not such good stamina or chin. Now he's facing someone bigger, similarly skilled with better stamina and a better chin. It's all over.

This all being said enough is enough. The HW division is becoming the division of "who's biggest", Fury, Wlad, Vitaly, Lewis all these fighters relied heavily on their size. We could see some quality matchups in a higher weight limit cruiserweight division but lately the little guys have just been serving as cannon fodder for the big guys, just because you're not Andre the giant shouldn't mean that almost regardless of your skills you're just gonna be used for target practice by bigger boys.

Wlad's fight with Jennings will have been more competitive than this upcoming fight with Fury, mark my words. It will be a slaughter.

[man]

Yeah, I'm not mad about it, just rather incredulous. I guess you're a big fan. I'm not, I don't dislike him, just see him as someone who did well for himself by being gobby, but not in a particularly clever or interesting way.

oh, i'm not a fan, far from it. but i try
to give credit where credit is due and
this guy has substantial showmanship
skills. who on earth sings after a boxing
match? who would even contemplate on
doing so?

[crusader]

I voted for Wladimir - he's a deserving favourite, but I don't see this as the foregone conclusion that some do.

I agree that Fury isn't a puncher - he certainly doesn't have the one-punch pop of a Wlad, Wilder, Stiverne, Joshua, Haye or David Price. That said, he punches hard enough to hurt Wlad, whose chin isn't concrete.

Fury's punch resistance is definitely a concern - he was put down by non-puncher Neven Pajkic (28% KO ratio) and former cruiserweight Steve Cunningham (37% KO ratio), who wasn't known as a puncher at cruiserweight, let alone heavyweight. That said, unlike Wlad, he has never been stopped and recovered well from being put down both times.

On the other hand, I think it's hard to deny that Tyson Fury has shown dramatic improvement over the last few years. Despite his flabby physique and yo-yo-ing weight, he has generally shown an ability to pace himself in fights and seems to have fairly good stamina, arguably better than that of the chiseled Klitschko. In his last two fights he has completely dominated ranked opponents in an almost Wlad-like style - winning every round and slowly grinding them down for a late stoppage. He beat Dereck Chisora more one-sidedly than Vitali Klitschko and more easily than David Haye (who stopped Chisora earlier, but was breathing hard and never looked in command to the extent that Fury was).

Some people repeat that the only advantages Fury has over Wlad are age and size, but that isn't true. Fury has the ability to switch stances and is a far better inside fighter than Wlad. He also throws a good uppercut, which is a punch that Wlad doesn't seem to know how to throw. Fury may lack Wlad's punching power and polish, but he is by far the more complex fighter with more tools in his belt.

For me, the biggest black mark against Fury is that he doesn't have real fight experience against anyone of Wlad's size and punching power. If he had a win over a Mariusz Wach or similar, I would give him a much better chance.

I think the best game plan for Fury is to try to get on the inside, impose his size and weight on Wlad and use his superior infighting skills, while being cautious to protect his questionable chin. If Wlad is fighting cautiously, he could have some success with a southpaw stance. If Wlad is going for the KO, Fury needs to smother his punches and stay on the inside.

I think the best game plan for Wlad is to be aggressive and try to throw Fury off his game plan. If Fury goes southpaw, Wlad needs to neglect his jab and walk him down like he did to Tony Thompson in their rematch, and try to land a big right hand and put him to sleep. If Wlad can draw Fury into trading punches, it may actually play into Wlad's favour, as he is the one with one-punch KO power.

Good post, though to me the win over Hammer (one of the 'ranked opponents') means little. CH may have climbed his way up ABC rankings but he's extremely limited (a poor man's Chisora) and I've never seen him as being even a remotely serious contender.

My big question about Fury is how cute his skills looks against someone who isn't a short, one-dimensional plodder without notable power. They didn't look so good against someone with some speed, skill, and ambition in Cunningham, and I wonder if he's been flattered by his match-making.

[handsofstone]

Agree with everyone who's concerned about the lack of tall opponents on Fury's recent CV going into this fight

[caldo2025]

Mike Tyson in his prime knocks Wlad in his prime out within 5 rounds. No ifs ands or buts about it. There's never been a fighter more dominant in his prime than Mike Tyson. No one.

Wlads been lucky and unlucky to reign in an era that was so depleted of heavyweight talent. He will obviously be a first ballot HOF'er but in the all time heavyweight rankings, he'd be lucky to crack the top 10. I'm not going to say that Wlad is not to blame for this because he's chosen to fight where and when he does with a style that is a good sleeping aid. He hijacked the heavyweight belt and refused to fight on American soil. So he'll get what he deserves when it comes to the poor public opinion from boxing fans.

[man]

Mike Tyson in his prime knocks Wlad in his prime out within 5 rounds.

i meant tyson fury ...

[SFW]

Wlad did not look good against a very clumsy predictable Jennings, actually he was hurt to the body on several occasions and never came close to stopping or even dropping Bryant. The same Bryant that was lucky to get a win over lazy ass Perez. Some of ya need to realize what year it currently is... Fury takes it by close decision, Vlads illegal hugging will finally work against him.

[caldo2025]

Mike Tyson in his prime knocks Wlad in his prime out within 5 rounds.

i meant tyson fury ...

I'm an idiot.

[man]

Mike Tyson in his prime knocks Wlad in his prime out within 5 rounds.

i meant tyson fury ...

I'm an idiot.

we could use this as a working
hypothesis for the time being.

[caldo2025]

we could use this as a working
hypothesis for the time being.

etch it in stone.

[Nightmare Roy]

Anyone who thinks Fury will win is 3 stops before Dagenham.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Wlad did not look good against a very clumsy predictable Jennings, actually he was hurt to the body on several occasions and never came close to stopping or even dropping Bryant. The same Bryant that was lucky to get a win over lazy ass Perez. Some of ya need to realize what year it currently is... Fury takes it by close decision, Vlads illegal hugging will finally work against him.

Wlad also absolutely destroyed Pulev- who is leagues above anyone Fury has beaten.

Isolating one opponent that Wlad had pretty minor struggles with, but who he beat absolutely hands down, isn't really building much of case to suggest that he might beat Fury.

We could point out of course how Fury was decked by former cruiserweight Steve Cunningham if we're going to play that game, the same Cunningham who was not even a puncher at cruiserweight.

[SFW]

Wlad did not look good against a very clumsy predictable Jennings, actually he was hurt to the body on several occasions and never came close to stopping or even dropping Bryant. The same Bryant that was lucky to get a win over lazy ass Perez. Some of ya need to realize what year it currently is... Fury takes it by close decision, Vlads illegal hugging will finally work against him.

Wlad also absolutely destroyed Pulev- who is leagues above anyone Fury has beaten.

Isolating one opponent that Wlad had pretty minor struggles with, but who he beat absolutely hands down, isn't really building much of case to suggest that he might beat Fury.

We could point out of course how Fury was decked by former cruiserweight Steve Cunningham if we're going to play that game, the same Cunningham who was not even a puncher at cruiserweight.

pulev is not that great, nor leagues above. Delusional.

Bringing up a guy's most recent performance, is actually the most current data to be drawn from. So no, your wrong. Again.

Fury, in a stupid moment of carelessness, literally had to run across the ring into the biggest punch Cunningham has thrown, and he got up and was fighting back strong less than a minute later. In a fight he dominated then got a vicious KO. Another stupid example that indicates nothing but will be laughably referenced no matter what.

I hope Vlad gets knocked out. Again. 4th Times the charm.

[greg]

...except for a longer reach, I'm not aware of any other qualities that would make Tyson a superior fighter/boxer...

[SFW]

...except for a longer reach, I'm not aware of any other qualities that would make Tyson a superior fighter/boxer...

He isn't superior. And neither were Purrity Sanders or Brewster. Let that sink in guys... the best guy doesn't always win, and a guy with heart is always dangerous.

[sharpei_louis]

I can't believe anyone has seriously followed the careers of both fighters and gives Fury much of a chance at all in this.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Wlad did not look good against a very clumsy predictable Jennings, actually he was hurt to the body on several occasions and never came close to stopping or even dropping Bryant. The same Bryant that was lucky to get a win over lazy ass Perez. Some of ya need to realize what year it currently is... Fury takes it by close decision, Vlads illegal hugging will finally work against him.

Wlad also absolutely destroyed Pulev- who is leagues above anyone Fury has beaten.

Isolating one opponent that Wlad had pretty minor struggles with, but who he beat absolutely hands down, isn't really building much of case to suggest that he might beat Fury.

We could point out of course how Fury was decked by former cruiserweight Steve Cunningham if we're going to play that game, the same Cunningham who was not even a puncher at cruiserweight.

pulev is not that great, nor leagues above. Delusional.

Bringing up a guy's most recent performance, is actually the most current data to be drawn from. So no, your wrong. Again.

Fury, in a stupid moment of carelessness, literally had to run across the ring into the biggest punch Cunningham has thrown, and he got up and was fighting back strong less than a minute later. In a fight he dominated then got a vicious KO. Another stupid example that indicates nothing but will be laughably referenced no matter what.

I hope Vlad gets knocked out. Again. 4th Times the charm.

I'm sure you do - but your hopes are ill founded.

[Ian1973]

Mike Tyson in his prime knocks Wlad in his prime out within 5 rounds. No ifs ands or buts about it. There's never been a fighter more dominant in his prime than Mike Tyson. No one.

Wlads been lucky and unlucky to reign in an era that was so depleted of heavyweight talent. He will obviously be a first ballot HOF'er but in the all time heavyweight rankings, he'd be lucky to crack the top 10. I'm not going to say that Wlad is not to blame for this because he's chosen to fight where and when he does with a style that is a good sleeping aid. He hijacked the heavyweight belt and refused to fight on American soil. So he'll get what he deserves when it comes to the poor public opinion from boxing fans.

No.

[jamesmcdonnell]

[/quote]

pulev is not that great, nor leagues above. Delusional.

Bringing up a guy's most recent performance, is actually the most current data to be drawn from. So no, your wrong. Again.

Fury, in a stupid moment of carelessness, literally had to run across the ring into the biggest punch Cunningham has thrown, and he got up and was fighting back strong less than a minute later. In a fight he dominated then got a vicious KO. Another stupid example that indicates nothing but will be laughably referenced no matter what.

I hope Vlad gets knocked out. Again. 4th Times the charm.[/quote]

I'm sure you do - but your hopes are ill founded.[/quote]

When analysing a fighter's career, it's rather stupid to look at a single fight in isolation. You're choosing the latest performance, because it's the one which best fits with the outcome you would like to see, as you stated you want to see Wlad get knocked out.

You are allowing your personal feelings about Wlad to colour your opinion of how the fight will pan out.

Of course, it's possible Tyson will win, this is a boxing match, stranger things have happened, it only takes one shot, etc etc. However, looking at the overall skillsets of both fighters I see little to suggest that Tyson has much chance. He hasn't the experience to deal with Wlad, maybe in 2 years he'd have had a chance, but I think personally, that Fury just isn't that good - in the current crop, he's managed to get himself a title shot, because let's face it, there's not much out there, but he is still pretty raw technically, and I'm not convinced he can improve much more.

We shall see soon enough, I will be there to witness it. Then we shall see which of us surmised correctly.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Mike Tyson in his prime knocks Wlad in his prime out within 5 rounds. No ifs ands or buts about it. There's never been a fighter more dominant in his prime than Mike Tyson. No one.

Wlads been lucky and unlucky to reign in an era that was so depleted of heavyweight talent. He will obviously be a first ballot HOF'er but in the all time heavyweight rankings, he'd be lucky to crack the top 10. I'm not going to say that Wlad is not to blame for this because he's chosen to fight where and when he does with a style that is a good sleeping aid. He hijacked the heavyweight belt and refused to fight on American soil. So he'll get what he deserves when it comes to the poor public opinion from boxing fans.

No.

I'd have picked Tyson over Wlad, Wlad has managed to perfect a style that is economical and avoid fighters getting in range to hit him, but a prime Tyson would have been too fast and too mobile, and would have gotten inside and under the lead hand, and bombed him out of there - all wrong for Wlad. The later slower version of Tyson would have been picked apart slowly, and ground down, much like Lewis did.

[Ian1973]

Mike Tyson in his prime knocks Wlad in his prime out within 5 rounds. No ifs ands or buts about it. There's never been a fighter more dominant in his prime than Mike Tyson. No one.

Wlads been lucky and unlucky to reign in an era that was so depleted of heavyweight talent. He will obviously be a first ballot HOF'er but in the all time heavyweight rankings, he'd be lucky to crack the top 10. I'm not going to say that Wlad is not to blame for this because he's chosen to fight where and when he does with a style that is a good sleeping aid. He hijacked the heavyweight belt and refused to fight on American soil. So he'll get what he deserves when it comes to the poor public opinion from boxing fans.

No.

I'd have picked Tyson over Wlad, Wlad has managed to perfect a style that is economical and avoid fighters getting in range to hit him, but a prime Tyson would have been too fast and too mobile, and would have gotten inside and under the lead hand, and bombed him out of there - all wrong for Wlad. The later slower version of Tyson would have been picked apart slowly, and ground down, much like Lewis did.

Wlad would've outboxed Tyson behind the jab and eventually knocked him out. Too big, too strong, too good. Tyson at his peak couldn't knock out the likes of Tony Tucker and Jose Ribalta. No way does he beat the 6ft 6ins athlete that Wlad is.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I see your reasoning. However, Tucker and Ribalta were both more fluid than Wlad - who for all his other gifts, is pretty robotic and repetitive. Tucker had a fantastic quick jab, and was pretty mobile, Ribalta too was quick for a big man.

[Ian1973]

I see your reasoning. However, Tucker and Ribalta were both more fluid than Wlad - who for all his other gifts, is pretty robotic and repetitive. Tucker had a fantastic quick jab, and was pretty mobile, Ribalta too was quick for a big man.

But neither was in the same league as Wladimir. For years people have been saying he only does this and he only does that but still no-one can trouble him.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I see your reasoning. However, Tucker and Ribalta were both more fluid than Wlad - who for all his other gifts, is pretty robotic and repetitive. Tucker had a fantastic quick jab, and was pretty mobile, Ribalta too was quick for a big man.

But neither was in the same league as Wladimir. For years people have been saying he only does this and he only does that but still no-one can trouble him.

I think it is easy to both underrated and overrate Wlad - it's a tricky one, because the skillset of the current crop of heavyweights is extremely poor - people forget that the likes of Berbick were extremely talented fighters, Tucker was also a hell of a fighter, very talented, and big too, quick hands and very good boxing skills, - I'd say Tucker would piss all over the current crop of contenders, who in the main are slow, plodding and predictable, or like Wilder, fast, but extremely raw.