the myth of Henry Cooper

tigerpomfret · Post by **tigerpomfret** » 20 Jan 2006, 17:01

Why was this very poor fighter bummed up so much in british boxing hype...... he could`nt box ,couldn`t punch,unsportsmanlike,terrible record against poor fighters,dodged every big hitter. I`ve never understood why,maybe because he was a london boy ,and the london newspapers pushed him along?

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 20 Jan 2006, 17:12

tigerpomfret wrote:Why was this very poor fighter bummed up so much in british boxing hype...... he could`nt box ,couldn`t punch,unsportsmanlike,terrible record against poor fighters,dodged every big hitter. I`ve never understood why,maybe because he was a london boy ,and the london newspapers pushed him along?

Couldn't punch? Ask Ali about that. That was a great shot Cooper caught him with.

Unsportmanlike? Well, apart from sulking for a few years about Gibbs giving Bugner the nod over him, I always thought he was the epitome of good sportmanship. You have any other examples?

I don't think Cooper was any sort of real force on the World scene but he was a very good fighter at British and European level. And a model citizen too.

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 20 Jan 2006, 17:56

tigerpomfret wrote:Why was this very poor fighter bummed up so much in british boxing hype...... he could`nt box ,couldn`t punch,unsportsmanlike,terrible record against poor fighters,dodged every big hitter. I`ve never understood why,maybe because he was a london boy ,and the london newspapers pushed him along?

Henry Cooper was the #2 European Heavyweight of his era (Ingo obviously being #1). That's why.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 20 Jan 2006, 18:35

Very first post! and a memorable one. Time will pass, you will learn.

And you'll look back on your first time with fond memories.

My guess is if you had a straight dose of H'nry's Hammer you just might have started out here singin a different tune. It brought down The Greatest for a bit of time and was responsible for a rough ride for a few others.

He also contributed a lot of drama to the "pre color television" period, as there was no doubt in anyones mind as to what color the liquid was dripping off his face on most given fights. Assuredly it was red and you could almost make it out even with limitation of the black and white cameras.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 20 Jan 2006, 18:45

couldn`t punch

cooper had one of the most underated left hooks of all time. did u ever see some of his fights? he put guys lights out with his left hook. cooper could really bang with that left hook.

and if u dont believe me, ask muhammad ali. ali faced huge punchers like foreman, shavers, liston, frazier, but it was a 185lb coopers left hook that came closest to knocking ali out. ali was hurt more by the cooper left hook than he was by fraziers left hook.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 20 Jan 2006, 18:53

Listen to the Blockster, on this subject as with many others he knows that of which he speaks! Just a wee bit more uumph at that moment and boxing history would have been profoundly changed. I've always been grateful that he came up a tad short.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 20 Jan 2006, 20:12

BoxBuzz wrote:Listen to the Blockster, on this subject as with many others he knows that of which he speaks! Just a wee bit more uumph at that moment and boxing history would have been profoundly changed. I've always been grateful that he came up a tad short.

Agreed,and if that big old hook didnt come at the end of the round ............Who knows?

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 20 Jan 2006, 21:31

Sometimes the winds of fate blow kindly....

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 20 Jan 2006, 21:40

Indeed and sometimes its better to be lucky than good or even the greatest of aaaaalllllll tiiiimes!!!!!!

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 20 Jan 2006, 23:33

agreed, even the very best can't do without a bit of luck on occasion.
I reckon that was one of his luckier moments.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 21 Jan 2006, 04:14

Actually watching Cooper vs Ali (both fights) one is struck by how much trouble Cooper gave Ali, b/c he was consistant . . .always pressuring, he stuck a short snapping jab and doubled up, he set up the left hook well.

Far from a bum. Problem was he was very small even for that era and his cuts were a constant problem.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 21 Jan 2006, 07:12

tigerpomfret wrote:Why was this very poor fighter bummed up so much in british boxing hype...... he could`nt box ,couldn`t punch,unsportsmanlike,terrible record against poor fighters,dodged every big hitter. I`ve never understood why,maybe because he was a london boy ,and the london newspapers pushed him along?

Have you seen any of Coopers fights?... he certainly could box, and he had a good punch... his failings were vulnerbility to cuts and the fact that he could be a bit erratic and lost to some boxers he should have beaten, but to say he was a bum is just ignorant... he was a world class boxer at his best and gave Ali two decent fights, beat Zora Folley when Flloyd Patterson was too afraid to fight him and dominated the Europeon heavyweight scene when it was populated by quite a few decent fighters.
As for him being a bad sport aside from the Bugner issue he was always a gentleman and sportsman of the highest calibre...
His popularity was down to the fact that he held the British title for so long, took part in a string of exciting domestic heavyweight matches and then the Ali fights....
I suggest you go away and come back when you know what you're talking about... 8)

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 21 Jan 2006, 07:14

dempseyfire wrote:Actually watching Cooper vs Ali (both fights) one is struck by how much trouble Cooper gave Ali, b/c he was consistant . . .always pressuring, he stuck a short snapping jab and doubled up, he set up the left hook well.

Far from a bum. Problem was he was very small even for that era and his cuts were a constant problem.

Dempsey, besides Ingo, is there any European fighter of that era that one could argue was a better heavyweight than Henry Cooper? I personally can't think of one, but you probably have a better grasp of that era than I do.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 21 Jan 2006, 14:49

iceman21287 wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:Actually watching Cooper vs Ali (both fights) one is struck by how much trouble Cooper gave Ali, b/c he was consistant . . .always pressuring, he stuck a short snapping jab and doubled up, he set up the left hook well.

Far from a bum. Problem was he was very small even for that era and his cuts were a constant problem.
Dempsey, besides Ingo, is there any European fighter of that era that one could argue was a better heavyweight than Henry Cooper? I personally can't think of one, but you probably have a better grasp of that era than I do.

Cooper was without doubt the best Heavyweight of the 60s... he beat Mildenburgher too in '68... though that was on a disq... when I've seen his fights I've been impressed by his speed and boxing abilities... he operated at a time when the heavyweight division was full of talent and to say he couldn't fight is a gross inaccuracy!....

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 21 Jan 2006, 17:04

mercman wrote:Agreed. Cooper had weaknesses but he could fight. He was fast, aggressive and, as everybody knows, had a great left hand. Although he wasn't quite a world beater he was pretty good. He was the best in Europe for quite a while in the 60s.

I watched one of Henry's fights with Joe Erskine recently and was surprised at Cooper's aggression and ability. The fight ended with a pretty freightening KO for Erskine. it was hard to equate the affable 'Our 'Enery' character we are familiar with nowadays with what I saw on screen.

I also admire the fact that he carried on and succeeded in boxing after losing his first 6 amutuer fights and then losing his first 3 title fights....

tigerpomfret · Post by **tigerpomfret** » 21 Jan 2006, 17:30

Cooper could punch ??

??don`t make me laugh

LIKE WHEN!!!!!!!,HE NEVER KNOCKED a TOP contender out NEVER!!
Joe Ersine gave him a right boxing lesson in their first 2 fights,cooper only won the 3rd when he disgracfully hit Erskin when the ref told them to break,then hit Erskin down with a cheap shot after the bell sounded and got away with it,disgusting .
Ali was a boy 10th pro fight,played around,but coopeer still could`nt put him away.Funny ain`t it...why don`t noboby mention the next fight against a over the hill patterson,YES that`s right patterson gave cooper a right boxing lesson,splattered cooper`s nose hit him down 3 times,and needed 4 men to lift him off the canvass.
The only good result was against folley,who came over here for the money won the 1st 6 rounds then let cooper have a chance because it was to embarassing,cooper stole the fight,so folley came back over and smashed cooper to pieces in a couple of rounds.
Cooper refused a world title fight against Patterson a few years earlier,and Brain London(who by the way had the BEST british record against the americans) went over and put up a cracking fight.
Cooper had a brilliant manager,unlike most british fighters,refused to fight all the big hitters(FACT) but was destroyed by poor fighters.
Cooper fought the same old faces again and again for years in the later 60`s ,only because of hype...what a joke .Trying to get a world title fight by fighting a bum who only had 10 pro fights in his career.,while quarry,frasier,bonavino,spencer ect slugged it out .
As for beating milenburger,i listened to that fight on trhe radio,and the german was boxing coopers head off .
WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT TO KNOW!!!!!!

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 21 Jan 2006, 17:35

tigerpomfret wrote:Cooper could punch ?? ??don`t make me laugh LIKE WHEN!!!!!!!,HE NEVER KNOCKED a TOP contender out NEVER!!
Joe Ersine gave him a right boxing lesson in their first 2 fights,cooper only won the 3rd when he disgracfully hit Erskin when the ref told them to break,then hit Erskin down with a cheap shot after the bell sounded and got away with it,disgusting .
Ali was a boy 10th pro fight,played around,but coopeer still could`nt put him away.Funny ain`t it...why don`t noboby mention the next fight against a over the hill patterson,YES that`s right patterson gave cooper a right boxing lesson,splattered cooper`s nose hit him down 3 times,and needed 4 men to lift him off the canvass.
The only good result was against folley,who came over here for the money won the 1st 6 rounds then let cooper have a chance because it was to embarassing,cooper stole the fight,so folley came back over and smashed cooper to pieces in a couple of rounds.
Cooper refused a world title fight against Patterson a few years earlier,and Brain London(who by the way had the BEST british record against the americans) went over and put up a cracking fight.
Cooper had a brilliant manager,unlike most british fighters,refused to fight all the big hitters(FACT) but was destroyed by poor fighters.
Cooper fought the same old faces again and again for years in the later 60`s ,only because of hype...what a joke .Trying to get a world title fight by fighting a bum who only had 10 pro fights in his career.,while quarry,frasier,bonavino,spencer ect slugged it out .
As for beating milenburger,i listened to that fight on trhe radio,and the german was boxing coopers head off .
WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT TO KNOW!!!!!!

I want to know what you've been smokin mate!....

You plainly don't know what you're talking about, I suppose Ali was knocked down by the referee!...

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 21 Jan 2006, 18:31

uh silkov.....it actually was the referee....thought you knew.....

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 21 Jan 2006, 19:12

iceman21287 wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:Actually watching Cooper vs Ali (both fights) one is struck by how much trouble Cooper gave Ali, b/c he was consistant . . .always pressuring, he stuck a short snapping jab and doubled up, he set up the left hook well.

Far from a bum. Problem was he was very small even for that era and his cuts were a constant problem.
Dempsey, besides Ingo, is there any European fighter of that era that one could argue was a better heavyweight than Henry Cooper? I personally can't think of one, but you probably have a better grasp of that era than I do.

On the European level, no. His win over a prime Folley and the avengeful KO over Erskine seals his spot behind Ingo. Also the fact that many feel he deserved the nod over Bugner when he was an old man is remarkable.
Is there film of Johansson's 5th round KO over Cooper?? . . .I'd like to see that fight.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 21 Jan 2006, 19:15

Cooper's knockout of Erskine was savage... I thought Erskine's spine was going to snap as he lay lifeless over the bottom rope.

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 21 Jan 2006, 19:35

dempseyfire wrote:
iceman21287 wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:Actually watching Cooper vs Ali (both fights) one is struck by how much trouble Cooper gave Ali, b/c he was consistant . . .always pressuring, he stuck a short snapping jab and doubled up, he set up the left hook well.

Far from a bum. Problem was he was very small even for that era and his cuts were a constant problem.
Dempsey, besides Ingo, is there any European fighter of that era that one could argue was a better heavyweight than Henry Cooper? I personally can't think of one, but you probably have a better grasp of that era than I do.
On the European level, no. His win over a prime Folley and the avengeful KO over Erskine seals his spot behind Ingo. Also the fact that many feel he deserved the nod over Bugner when he was an old man is remarkable.
Is there film of Johansson's 5th round KO over Cooper?? . . .I'd like to see that fight.

I haven't been able to find any film of that fight unfortunately. That would be a treasure to add to my collection.

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 21 Jan 2006, 19:36

tigerpomfret wrote:Why was this very poor fighter bummed up so much in british boxing hype...... he could`nt box ,couldn`t punch,unsportsmanlike,terrible record against poor fighters,dodged every big hitter. I`ve never understood why,maybe because he was a london boy ,and the london newspapers pushed him along?

Tigerpomfret this is extremely impressive! Within two posts you have managed to alienate everyone on the boxers of the past forum. Awesome job man

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 22 Jan 2006, 02:01

DoubleM wrote:Cooper's knockout of Erskine was savage... I thought Erskine's spine was going to snap as he lay lifeless over the bottom rope.

im glad u finally saw that one, i thought ersktine was dead.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 22 Jan 2006, 02:13

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
DoubleM wrote:Cooper's knockout of Erskine was savage... I thought Erskine's spine was going to snap as he lay lifeless over the bottom rope.
im glad u finally saw that one, i thought ersktine was dead.

Uh huh. Definitely one of the more brutal knockouts.

I think one of the worst has to be Foster-Quarry also!

tigerpomfret · Post by **tigerpomfret** » 22 Jan 2006, 07:27

Silco,
Read what i wrote,or are you punchdrunk,cooper NEVER!!!!!!! knocked out a TOP contender,ANY bum can put a top fighter on his ass, but knockout...now that`s a different story, and as for Thor`s hammer,like plenty others destroyed cooper,but when brian london knocked thor`s hammer out in the last round of their fight,the ringmaster rang the bell a full minute early.and johanson was gave the verdict...what about that then...you don`t know much ..typical... 8)

the myth of Henry Cooper

the myth of Henry Cooper

Re: the myth of Henry Cooper

Re: the myth of Henry Cooper

Re: the myth of Henry Cooper

Re: the myth of Henry Cooper