Pacquaio vs Crawford: Bob Arum in a nutshell

[Tanzio]

And let's go back to the statement that started this mess...

Boxing hasn't seen a talent like this for...maybe ever

Someone PLEASE try to prove this statement incorrect. Name another boxer in the last 40 years that has done what GGG has done. Come on, I want to hear it. All of the penis gallery piping up, all that I've heard so far is Nigel Benn...which is pretty funny because he got knocked the F out twice within his first 30 fights. So that's not even close.

Let's hear it.

Take a deep breath, blow into a paper bag, adjust your Viagra prescription.

I'd take Hagler and Monzon and The Hitman over 3G. No offense intended but 3G hasn't faced anyone in the vicinity of their level and he has not fought anywhere in the vicinity of the competition they fought.

3G is fighting LeMieux. Don't get me wrong, I like the fight, but David is not Hagler, Monzon or Hearns or Duran or Leonard or Benitez or Virgil Hill or BHop or Trinidad or Lara for that matter.

I do think 3G has the potential to be an ATG, but LeMieux is not the ticket to that destination.

It's way too premature to make any of those comparisons, agreed. I'm not ready to go there either. But what I do know is that we are witnessing domination in the Middleweight Division unlike anything I've ever seen in my years of watching boxing. Even if you go by the sample that we do have to compare, it's not like he's fighting the type of guys that comprise Deontay Wilder's resume of KO victims. Stevens, Macklin, Monroe Jr, Geale, Murray, Rubio etc. Nothing about this KO string or record is fabricated against club fighters or chumps. His last 7 KO's were against opponents that comprise a record of 213-20. At some point, you have to appreciate what is going on right now with this kid.

I agree with you 100%

[johnswan1]

It's way too premature to make any of those comparisons, agreed. I'm not ready to go there either. But what I do know is that we are witnessing domination in the Middleweight Division unlike anything I've ever seen in my years of watching boxing. Even if you go by the sample that we do have to compare, it's not like he's fighting the type of guys that comprise Deontay Wilder's resume of KO victims. Stevens, Macklin, Monroe Jr, Geale, Murray, Rubio etc. Nothing about this KO string or record is fabricated against club fighters or chumps. His last 7 KO's were against opponents that comprise a record of 213-20. At some point, you have to appreciate what is going on right now with this kid.

It's undoubtedly impressive, but I have never seen as bad a middleweight division in my years of watching boxing (apart from during Hopkins reign).

Any "great" fighter would be expected to beat all of the middleweight opponents both Hopkins and GGG beat during their respective reigns.

What do you think Hopkins, Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, or even Trinidad would have done to the likes of Stevens, Macklin, Monroe Jr, Geale, Murray, Rubio etc?

As much as I personally believe GGG is the real deal, debates with regards to his greatness or P4P worthiness will always come with a "but who did he beat". Plus, if he has any weakness it's probably that his style of having no regard for what his opponent offers leaves him very open to getting hit.

Stevens is probably the hardest puncher he's been in with, who can't really compare to the likes of hitters of the past like Jackson, McClellan, Benn, Trinidad, Hearns etc. Lemineux will tick a box with regards to punchers, but he can hardly be considered to be of the same caliber of some of these guys.

[jamesmcdonnell]

And let's go back to the statement that started this mess...

Boxing hasn't seen a talent like this for...maybe ever

Someone PLEASE try to prove this statement incorrect. Name another boxer in the last 40 years that has done what GGG has done. Come on, I want to hear it. All of the penis gallery piping up, all that I've heard so far is Nigel Benn...which is pretty funny because he got knocked the F out twice within his first 30 fights. So that's not even close.

Let's hear it.

Take a deep breath, blow into a paper bag, adjust your Viagra prescription.

I'd take Hagler and Monzon and The Hitman over 3G. No offense intended but 3G hasn't faced anyone in the vicinity of their level and he has not fought anywhere in the vicinity of the competition they fought.

3G is fighting LeMieux. Don't get me wrong, I like the fight, but David is not Hagler, Monzon or Hearns or Duran or Leonard or Benitez or Virgil Hill or BHop or Trinidad or Lara for that matter.

I do think 3G has the potential to be an ATG, but LeMieux is not the ticket to that destination.

It's way too premature to make any of those comparisons, agreed. I'm not ready to go there either. But what I do know is that we are witnessing domination in the Middleweight Division unlike anything I've ever seen in my years of watching boxing. Even if you go by the sample that we do have to compare, it's not like he's fighting the type of guys that comprise Deontay Wilder's resume of KO victims. Stevens, Macklin, Monroe Jr, Geale, Murray, Rubio etc. Nothing about this KO string or record is fabricated against club fighters or chumps. His last 7 KO's were against opponents that comprise a record of 213-20. At some point, you have to appreciate what is going on right now with this kid.

You are both agreeing and disagreeing with the statement it appears.

Sure he is dominating, but it's in a VERY poor era relatively speaking. In a tougher era, would he be knocking all his opponents out, almost certainly not. He would likely have a loss or two.

He's got to find some better opponents before he can be anointed as one of the best ever middleweights - he may well have the potential, he certainly looks very destructive, but it's just not sensible to do so without a better level of competition, whether or not it is his fault his era is weak or not, the fact remains the same. Stevens Macklin, Monroe Jr, Geale, Rubio etc, would have been ripped to pieces by the likes of Hagler, Monzon, Hearns, et a;.

[caldo2025]

It's undoubtedly impressive, but I have never seen as bad a middleweight division in my years of watching boxing (apart from during Hopkins reign).

Any "great" fighter would be expected to beat all of the middleweight opponents both Hopkins and GGG beat during their respective reigns.

What do you think Hopkins, Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, or even Trinidad would have done to the likes of Stevens, Macklin, Monroe Jr, Geale, Murray, Rubio etc?

As much as I personally believe GGG is the real deal, debates with regards to his greatness or P4P worthiness will always come with a "but who did he beat". Plus, if he has any weakness it's probably that his style of having no regard for what his opponent offers leaves him very open to getting hit.

Stevens is probably the hardest puncher he's been in with, who can't really compare to the likes of hitters of the past like Jackson, McClellan, Benn, Trinidad, Hearns etc. Lemineux will tick a box with regards to punchers, but he can hardly be considered to be of the same caliber of some of these guys.

That's about as perfectly as you could put it and i can understand why some people would hold their opinion until they see how GGG does facing better competition. But anyone that knows a thing about boxing can look at this guy in the ring and see how different and skilled he is. Once he knocks out Lemieux and then the winner of Cotto/Alvarez then we'll have a little more to talk about. But there's no way Cotto fights him if he wins. No shot.

The Floyd lovers that just write GGG off without using their eyes or brain just irk me. Again, never saying GGG is the best Middleweight ever or even close to that. Just saying that i've never seen a boxer like this come along and i'm excited about it wherever it takes him. Could be peaches or it could be lunchmeat but i'm enjoying it.

[johnswan1]

Yes I agree, and especially on Cotto, the fake Middleweight champion of the world. I would love to see Cotto take his beating from GGG before retiring. His catchweight middleweight reign is an embarrassing, and quite frankly disgusting insult to the rich history of the division. Oh let's see if a 100% Light Middle can beat a 50% Middle and then call him the Middleweight champ, that'll be fun! No fornicating way, if both fighters cannot be 100% then I don't want the fight to happen.

If Cotto can't fight to 100% of his ability in the middleweight division, as a middleweight, then he shouldn't be in there. If it thinks he can operate at 80% as a middle but still beat the champ, then by all means go ahead and try cause you'll get a hell of a lot more respect for doing it. I still don't like the cat and mouse element in that scenario but if any fighter loses or underperforms against a guy coming up because he is weight drained from a catchweight then I give the victor very little credit. And even if the weight didn't have that much of an impact in reality, the win still has to come with a huge "BUT" beside it for me.

I have no interest in a Floyd-GGG fight due to the size/strength differential. If Floyd did manage to beat him it would be horrible to watch, a bit like Floyd-Canelo. I hate cat and mouse fights where one guy is running and the other is stalking, especially if it's happening because they are a weight division (or more) apart.

And no, I don't think Floyd would win, I'm just saying if he was to win it would be by playing matador all night, only GGG is now in his prime and is bigger than Canelo and most importantly knows how to cut off the ring a lot better than the comparably flat footed red headed Mexican can.

[ikorolev]

Wasn't Lemieux ko'd by a guy that was easily ko'd by GGG? Toughest test?

I think Lara would test him more, and is a bigger name.

Lara is not a big name AT ALL, and he is not a MW. His drawing abilities are significantly below Lemieux's.

By the way, why is Floyd fighting Berto instead of fighting "big name" Lara ?

P.S. The thread about Pac/Crawford/Arum became the thread about GGG. I am adding Floyd, because his fans are so jealous that their guy lately is not getting as much attention as Gennady.

[jamesmcdonnell]

It's undoubtedly impressive, but I have never seen as bad a middleweight division in my years of watching boxing (apart from during Hopkins reign).

Any "great" fighter would be expected to beat all of the middleweight opponents both Hopkins and GGG beat during their respective reigns.

What do you think Hopkins, Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, or even Trinidad would have done to the likes of Stevens, Macklin, Monroe Jr, Geale, Murray, Rubio etc?

As much as I personally believe GGG is the real deal, debates with regards to his greatness or P4P worthiness will always come with a "but who did he beat". Plus, if he has any weakness it's probably that his style of having no regard for what his opponent offers leaves him very open to getting hit.

Stevens is probably the hardest puncher he's been in with, who can't really compare to the likes of hitters of the past like Jackson, McClellan, Benn, Trinidad, Hearns etc. Lemineux will tick a box with regards to punchers, but he can hardly be considered to be of the same caliber of some of these guys.

That's about as perfectly as you could put it and i can understand why some people would hold their opinion until they see how GGG does facing better competition. But anyone that knows a thing about boxing can look at this guy in the ring and see how different and skilled he is. Once he knocks out Lemieux and then the winner of Cotto/Alvarez then we'll have a little more to talk about. But there's no way Cotto fights him if he wins. No shot.

The Floyd lovers that just write GGG off without using their eyes or brain just irk me. Again, never saying GGG is the best Middleweight ever or even close to that. Just saying that i've never seen a boxer like this come along and i'm excited about it wherever it takes him. Could be peaches or it could be lunchmeat but i'm enjoying it.

We'll that we can agree on fella.

[caldo2025]

Yes I agree, and especially on Cotto, the fake Middleweight champion of the world. I would love to see Cotto take his beating from GGG before retiring. His catchweight middleweight reign is an embarrassing, and quite frankly disgusting insult to the rich history of the division. Oh let's see if a 100% Light Middle can beat a 50% Middle and then call him the Middleweight champ, that'll be fun! No effing way, if both fighters cannot be 100% then I don't want the fight to happen.

If Cotto can't fight to 100% of his ability in the middleweight division, as a middleweight, then he shouldn't be in there. If it thinks he can operate at 80% as a middle but still beat the champ, then by all means go ahead and try cause you'll get a hell of a lot more respect for doing it. I still don't like the cat and mouse element in that scenario but if any fighter loses or underperforms against a guy coming up because he is weight drained from a catchweight then I give the victor very little credit. And even if the weight didn't have that much of an impact in reality, the win still has to come with a huge "BUT" beside it for me.

I have no interest in a Floyd-GGG fight due to the size/strength differential. If Floyd did manage to beat him it would be horrible to watch, a bit like Floyd-Canelo. I hate cat and mouse fights where one guy is running and the other is stalking, especially if it's happening because they are a weight division (or more) apart.

And no, I don't think Floyd would win, I'm just saying if he was to win it would be by playing matador all night, only GGG is now in his prime and is bigger than Canelo and most importantly knows how to cut off the ring a lot better than the comparably flat footed red headed Mexican can.

Finally. Someone I agree with when it comes to Cotto. Can you imagine any great Middleweight Champion setting up title fights for the lineal championship of the world below the 160lb minimum? It's pretty sad that boxing officials let this go on. To me, if you want to carry that treasured belt, no fight for the championship should be any lower than 160. I've been saying it for years that Miguel Cotto is the most overrated boxer in my era of boxing. Here's a guy that has lost every big fight he's been in. The only one he's won was against a 40 year old boxer with bad knees. Any GOOD pro boxer would have taken Sergio down that night and that title was won in the boardroom by getting Sergio to sign on to fight.

People want to criticize GGG for who he's been beating but everyone wants to blow Cotto now because he beat Rodriguez, Geale and a gimpy old Sergio? For the good of boxing, I hope that Canelo takes the title because say what you want about him, Canelo will fight anyone anywhere. That's what i like about that kid. I think that Cotto will win a lot of the early rounds but Canelo will put some pressure on Cotto late and make it very difficult for Cotto to get to the final bell. Similar to the Margarito fights, Cotto will fade down the stretch and it will be up to Canelo to finish him off because i don't think Canelo will win on the cards. Cotto is quicker and will mount up too much of a lead early in that fight.

Canelo vs. GGG (or Lemieux) would be super.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yes I agree, and especially on Cotto, the fake Middleweight champion of the world. I would love to see Cotto take his beating from GGG before retiring. His catchweight middleweight reign is an embarrassing, and quite frankly disgusting insult to the rich history of the division. Oh let's see if a 100% Light Middle can beat a 50% Middle and then call him the Middleweight champ, that'll be fun! No effing way, if both fighters cannot be 100% then I don't want the fight to happen.

If Cotto can't fight to 100% of his ability in the middleweight division, as a middleweight, then he shouldn't be in there. If it thinks he can operate at 80% as a middle but still beat the champ, then by all means go ahead and try cause you'll get a hell of a lot more respect for doing it. I still don't like the cat and mouse element in that scenario but if any fighter loses or underperforms against a guy coming up because he is weight drained from a catchweight then I give the victor very little credit. And even if the weight didn't have that much of an impact in reality, the win still has to come with a huge "BUT" beside it for me.

I have no interest in a Floyd-GGG fight due to the size/strength differential. If Floyd did manage to beat him it would be horrible to watch, a bit like Floyd-Canelo. I hate cat and mouse fights where one guy is running and the other is stalking, especially if it's happening because they are a weight division (or more) apart.

And no, I don't think Floyd would win, I'm just saying if he was to win it would be by playing matador all night, only GGG is now in his prime and is bigger than Canelo and most importantly knows how to cut off the ring a lot better than the comparably flat footed red headed Mexican can.

Finally. Someone I agree with when it comes to Cotto. Can you imagine any great Middleweight Champion setting up title fights for the lineal championship of the world below the 160lb minimum? It's pretty sad that boxing officials let this go on. To me, if you want to carry that treasured belt, no fight for the championship should be any lower than 160. I've been saying it for years that Miguel Cotto is the most overrated boxer in my era of boxing. Here's a guy that has lost every big fight he's been in. The only one he's won was against a 40 year old boxer with bad knees. Any GOOD pro boxer would have taken Sergio down that night and that title was won in the boardroom by getting Sergio to sign on to fight.

People want to criticize GGG for who he's been beating but everyone wants to blow Cotto now because he beat Rodriguez, Geale and a gimpy old Sergio? For the good of boxing, I hope that Canelo takes the title because say what you want about him, Canelo will fight anyone anywhere. That's what i like about that kid. I think that Cotto will win a lot of the early rounds but Canelo will put some pressure on Cotto late and make it very difficult for Cotto to get to the final bell. Similar to the Margarito fights, Cotto will fade down the stretch and it will be up to Canelo to finish him off because i don't think Canelo will win on the cards. Cotto is quicker and will mount up too much of a lead early in that fight.

Canelo vs. GGG (or Lemieux) would be super.

I doubt anyone really considers Cotto anything but a paper champ, even his own supporters, however, Cotto is still an excellent fighter, and I believe he would still probably be the best fighter that GGG had faced to date, though I very much doubt the fight will ever happen.

To be fair to Cotto, Margarito almost certainly had illegal hand wraps for their first fight, which would explain why he got so badly busted up after taking relatively few shots. Cotto was winning at a canter early on, before he sustained terrible facial damage which made it hard for him to breathe, and therefore tire.