Is The IBHOF Biased Towards US Fighters?

[pound per pound]

Is The IBHOF Biased Towards USA Fighters? Hard to say. I think will know the answer when many of the current upper weight belt holders who aren't USA born retire.

Put me down for a mild yes, they are a slightly biased. Possibly because the voters see more of the USA fighters. Out of sight, out of mind.

[elmersalsa]

Everybody is biased at some extent.

[klompton]

Considering its a hall of fame, which by its very nature deals with the history of the sport and the history of the sport and its greatest fighters have largely been dominated until the last 10 years or so by Americans then its a weak call to say its bias that it has so many American fighters in.

[Ambling Alp II]

Unless someone can come up with some specific reasons how it's biased, I have to agree. Certainly DM could be in, or Rodrigo Valdez instead of some Amercians that are in. However, there are some Americans that aren't in that are more deserving than some non-Americans who are in as well.

[keithmoonhangover]

Unless someone can come up with some specific reasons how it's biased, I have to agree. Certainly DM could be in, or Rodrigo Valdez instead of some Amercians that are in. However, there are some Americans that aren't in that are more deserving than some non-Americans who are in as well.

Virgil Hill being in the hall of fame, when there are better boxers with better records that are not.

[Ambling Alp II]

Is the reason Hill in because he was an American?
There are several non-Americans who are in that are borderline cases at best.
For example, non-Americans such as Rosario, Torres, and Palomino are in.
Yet Eddie Mustapha Muhammad, who should have been voted in 15 years ago, is not in.

I guess in a nutshell, two things must be shown:
1. It has to be shown that a borderline (or completely non deserving) fighters that are in are from the United States are more likely to get in than a non-American.

2. Deserving fighters from outside the United States have a less chance of making it than deserving fighters from the United States that have not made it.

I guess what I am saying is that you can't just cherrypick one or two cases and come to conclusion either way.

[Seamus]

I'm curious why you think Eddie Mustafa Muhammad is so deserving of induction into the IBHOF. He went 3-3 in world title fights, didn't hold a unified championship, and went 1-2 vs fighters who are in the IBHOF. Dozens of fighters have better credentials in my opinion.

[Ambling Alp II]

I actually do think he is the best fighter eligible for the Hall of Fame who is not in.
To me, everything points to him deserving to be in.

No he never unified the title, but he was one of two champions in an extremely deep division when he was fighting. Galindez, Saad, and Qawi never unified the title either.

-He looks really good on film. He could box, work the body, had power, good chin. Purely subjective of course, but he looked really good to me.

-On 12 point system of rating Hall of Famers, he does well. Can't come up with anyone else that isn't that would be higher.


-Yes he was 3-3 in title fights. I think that title fights is becoming one of the most overrated stats in boxing. Win/loss records can be very deceiving in boxing. You have to look to who he fought and to a lesser extent how competitive the fights were.
His three losses were all close decisions. One was to Galindez, who just about everyone respects as a great fighter. One was to Spinks whom most regard as one of the very best light heavyweights of all time. The other loss was when he way past it.

The three wins were all very convincing stoppages.

-Compare him to a contemporary -Saad Muhammad. I have never heard anyone complain that Saad should not be in.
Mustafa beat him head to head.
They really didn't have many common opponents. Mustafa beat Jerry Martin fairly easily. Saad was lucky the officials were not going to let him lose against Martin.
Both Saad and Mustafa had their hands full with Marvin Johnson, but Saad seemed to have even more trouble.

Mustafa was more consistent than Saad: Saad lost more often to fighters he shouldn't. Really Mustafa's only upset loss was to James Scott, which wasn't exactly an easy place to win.

Saad was a great fighter and beat some good fighters. However most gave him about all he could handle.

If someone thinks Saad was better, I don't have a major problem with that. However, it has to be very, very close. Saad got in 1998, and nobody seems to argue against it. If Saad is deserving and got in 17 years ago, surely Eddie should be in by now.

[Chuck1052]

Eddie Mustafa Muhammad had terrific talent and skills, but he seemed to lack the fire in the belly and had an extremely deliberate fighting style. As a result, he often had some lackadaisical performances and lost to fighters with much less talent and skill. Eddie may have more talent and skills than a good many boxers elected to the International Boxing Hall of Fame, but I think that he falls short of being a worthy candidate for IBHOF because his performances in the ring was not up to par.

Are there any pre-1970 fighters who should be inducted into the IBHOF, but haven't been? It is hard for me to think of any. There are a number of worthy pre-1970 promoters, matchmakers, managers or trainers who haven't been inducted.

- Chuck Johnston

[Seamus]

Several pre-1970's fighters should be in. Jimmy Leto, Petey Sarron, Frankie Burns, Lockport Jimmy Duffy, Charley White, Willie Joyce, Bert Lytell, maybe even Del Flanagan and Paddy DeMarco, or possibly on extenuating circumstances (i,e, he went the distance some top heavyweights while being considerably smaller) Young Peter Jackson.

[keithmoonhangover]

Is the reason Hill in because he was an American?
There are several non-Americans who are in that are borderline cases at best.
For example, non-Americans such as Rosario, Torres, and Palomino are in.
Yet Eddie Mustapha Muhammad, who should have been voted in 15 years ago, is not in.

I guess in a nutshell, two things must be shown:
1. It has to be shown that a borderline (or completely non deserving) fighters that are in are from the United States are more likely to get in than a non-American.

2. Deserving fighters from outside the United States have a less chance of making it than deserving fighters from the United States that have not made it.

I guess what I am saying is that you can't just cherrypick one or two cases and come to conclusion either way.

Hill didn't beat any HOF fighters, so why not Chris Eubank? Why not Michalczewski? They both had long unbeaten streaks and Michalczewski beat Hill when they were both close to their primes.

Gatti was based in the US and there are literally dozens of fighters more worthy of a place in the IBHOF.

[Ambling Alp II]

I am not arguing that Hill (or Gatti for that matter) should be in. I am saying that by itself it doesn't mean that the IBHOF is biased towards US Fighters.

Who did Carlos Palomino ever beat that is remotely close to being a Hall of Famer?
Or Cuevas?
What is the argument that Rosario should be in?
Is there much of a case for Jose Torres?

These guys aren't from the United States and yet they are in.

[Ambling Alp II]

Eddie Mustafa Muhammad had terrific talent and skills, but he seemed to lack the fire in the belly and had an extremely deliberate fighting style. As a result, he often had some lackadaisical performances and lost to fighters with much less talent and skill. Eddie may have more talent and skills than a good many boxers elected to the International Boxing Hall of Fame, but I think that he falls short of being a worthy candidate for IBHOF because his performances in the ring was not up to par.

Are there any pre-1970 fighters who should be inducted into the IBHOF, but haven't been? It is hard for me to think of any. There are a number of worthy pre-1970 promoters, matchmakers, managers or trainers who haven't been inducted.

- Chuck Johnston

What fights are you referring to? The only one I can come up with is James Scott. Even that isn't exactly embarrassing; Scott gave Qawi trouble and beat some good fighters.

[scorpio83]

Eddie Mustafa Muhammad along with Rocky Lockridge are two of the most under appreciate fighters who are still not inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame. I hope their time will come for their honor.