Journeymen from Eastern Europe

[dalcumly]

Its becoming increasingly popular for promoters to bring in 'opponents' from Eastern Europe. There may be more than one reason for this, but I suppose principal amongst those will be money.

At the Edinburgh show last night there were 2 who were quite remarkable for different reasons. One had an unusual record. He's had 12 wins and 1 defeat within the Czech Republic, and 14 defeats and no wins elsewhere. Maybe he can really turn it on at home!!!! The other chap has had 1 win in Lithuania and lost 17 elsewhere. He was listed as being 30 years of age. I'm not too bad at guessing ages but this chappie is at least 40.

The '30 year old' was stopped in the first. The Czech 'prospect' slid ,anti clockwise, round the ropes for 8 rounds waving his arms about when he thought a punch was coming and bending over backwards over the top rope. He has boxed previously under the Malta Boxing Commission.

It can sometimes be difficult to get opponents when there are other shows on, so I'm not particularly against Eastern Europeans coming here, and I realise, unfortunately, that the name of the game is simply to get fights,and a win, for good ticket sellers but I'm sorry, this wasn't professional boxing as we recognise it in the UK.

Come on matchmakers, lets be a little bit more choosy.

[stevegoodwin]

Firstly I want to clarify a popular misconception. Eastern Europeans COST MORE MONEY than UK journeymen (after flights hotels transfers and food)

So moving on:

1) Major problem is there are so few UK journeyment nowadays. I put this down to social media. Many more boxers want the hero status rather than earn money on the road so there are iUK journeymen to choose from.

2) We had six Eastern European Journeyman box on our show last night one lost 39-38 four others went the distance and only one was KO'd. Thats was a Heavyweight who was expected to pose a danger the the UK home fighter but was an amazing one punch KO. There were 8 UK-UK bouts.

So they are not cheaper and we would rather use UK as all times but often not able to but when we do we try to ensure competitive matches.

My show on 17th October has five 10 round contests all UK v UK but the undercard will feature some foreign opponents as we will have no choice.

[dalcumly]

Appreciate reply from Steve Goodwin, and it's great to hear from people at the heart of the game. But could it be that what you might mean is there not so many 'losing' journeymen, and that you don't want anyone with a reasonable, if not ambitious record,coming up against ticket sellers.
The best fights are those between boxers who at least try to win, surely. I don't believe winning records are as important as they were until recently. Look at Buglioni and Blackwell for example. Take your point though regarding costs, but matchmakers tend to use the same groups of managers,with similar fighters. Over 500 active boxers in the UK.

[stevegoodwin]

Appreciate reply from Steve Goodwin, and it's great to hear from people at the heart of the game. But could it be that what you might mean is there not so many 'losing' journeymen, and that you don't want anyone with a reasonable, if not ambitious record,coming up against ticket sellers.
The best fights are those between boxers who at least try to win, surely. I don't believe winning records are as important as they were until recently. Look at Buglioni and Blackwell for example. Take your point though regarding costs, but matchmakers tend to use the same groups of managers,with similar fighters. Over 500 active boxers in the UK.

No what I am saying is that you cant get them. Kids that are fighting on home shows want to stay there and wont travel to fight another unbeaten kid for example. I didnt say "losing journeymen". We pitched 2 debut kids in on Saturday great fight as they both wanted it. When we can we do.

There are about a third of boxers willing to travel to someone elses backyard than there was 5 years ago when I srarted. Hence the more prolific use of foreign opponents.

You are free to come and spend a day with us in our offices and it will enlighten you.

[Black Sam Bellamy]

Steve, for those who haven't fought abroad before, do u watch these guys before you bring them over ?

[stevegoodwin]

Many people don't or are not able to on the whole. We do!

For example our team visited Latvia in February for three days to watch a show and visit gyms. We have Croatia and Bulgaria trips scheduled. We also watch footage that is not available on the net.

By getting to know the agents well and showing them the respect to visit the countries we are able to ensure the right matches for the boxers I either manage or we promote.

[Old bones Ian]

Thanks for those comments Steve, but the influx of these guys is detrimental to UK boxing IMO, I'm saying this from a fans position, and obviously I'm not putting my money or time into the game like your are.
But I feel most of the imports are so far below the majority of our guys that they learn hardly anything and the home boxers take nothing from the fights.
These boxers mainly have gym wins, and once in with a British boxer the gulf in talent is so big, it's either survive or bail out.
I've been a fan of boxing for 30 odd years, but this for me is the worst for poor imports.
This is not slagging Goodwin Promotions off, as have enjoyed your shows, but just a fans moan at British boxing in general.

[stevegoodwin]

I agree its a problem but what do you do when there are no other options. Thats the problem. We cannot have perfection. We do the best with the situations we have. You will see from our shows (Oct 17th especially) we will invest money and stage the bigger fights but boxers have to learn their trade first.

[Gnome]

Thank you Steve for taking the time to answer some fans' concerns.

[SAPFO]

I think fighting a 'no lose' fight is detrimental to the development of the fighter in the long run. You are not going into he trenches, thinking of ways to overcome your opponent. You learn more from a tough fight, even a loss, than you do kicking a can around the ring. Sparring cannot replicate a live fight, that extra edge just ain't there. But then you can't sell a fighter with a loss these days. Boxing is a broken system.

[roy]

I can't understand why boys turn pro if they are not prepared to fight away. How do they make any money?
Johnny Greaves must have earned far more than most,so called, prospects.

[bripez]

I can't understand why boys turn pro if they are not prepared to fight away. How do they make any money?
Johnny Greaves must have earned far more than most,so called, prospects.

I assume that most lads who turn over do so with a romantic notion that their manager/promoter will get them fights and the more they win the more they will move up the rankings towards a title shot (whether that be and Area, English, British title or whatever).

No disrespect, but I would guess that very few turn over (initially at least) with the plan to end up with a 4-96 record - although there is certainly a niche for this type of boxer.

As with anything, there are 2 sides to every story. If a lad who is 3-1 is offered a fight away from home against another lad who is 3-1 then I am sure that most would take it.

If they are offered a fight against a 10-0 ex-England international who trains full-time then I can't exactly blame them for turning the fight down.

[stevegoodwin]

I can't understand why boys turn pro if they are not prepared to fight away. How do they make any money?
Johnny Greaves must have earned far more than most,so called, prospects.

I assume that most lads who turn over do so with a romantic notion that their manager/promoter will get them fights and the more they win the more they will move up the rankings towards a title shot (whether that be and Area, English, British title or whatever).

No disrespect, but I would guess that very few turn over (initially at least) with the plan to end up with a 4-96 record - although there is certainly a niche for this type of boxer.

As with anything, there are 2 sides to every story. If a lad who is 3-1 is offered a fight away from home against another lad who is 3-1 then I am sure that most would take it.

If they are offered a fight against a 10-0 ex-England international who trains full-time then I can't exactly blame them for turning the fight down.

I can tell you that "most" 3-1 would not take a fight against another 3-1. I would say that would be very rare indeed,

[jonp]

I can't understand why boys turn pro if they are not prepared to fight away. How do they make any money?
Johnny Greaves must have earned far more than most,so called, prospects.

I assume that most lads who turn over do so with a romantic notion that their manager/promoter will get them fights and the more they win the more they will move up the rankings towards a title shot (whether that be and Area, English, British title or whatever).

No disrespect, but I would guess that very few turn over (initially at least) with the plan to end up with a 4-96 record - although there is certainly a niche for this type of boxer.

As with anything, there are 2 sides to every story. If a lad who is 3-1 is offered a fight away from home against another lad who is 3-1 then I am sure that most would take it.

If they are offered a fight against a 10-0 ex-England international who trains full-time then I can't exactly blame them for turning the fight down.

I can tell you that "most" 3-1 would not take a fight against another 3-1. I would say that would be very rare indeed,

Lol i can second this as well.An if you do find a lad ready to fight the other 3.1 guy will definatly not take it

[Andy]

And even if both lads would, one, or both, of their promoters/managers/trainers wouldn't.

[littlepug]

at least nowadays you can use the internet to verify a boxers record, before the internet you would just have to believe what you were told, my manager would tell me all sorts like my opponent was 2-2 when he was really 4-1 which I found a bit sneaky

[magnus]

Some good insights in this thread.

From the POV of a fan, I've not bothered to go to several shows within staggering distance of home in recent years, simply because I have no interest in paying £30-£50 for the privilege of watching a contest where one of the fighters is often not even expected to try and win, or don't realistically have the ability to do so. How many other paying sporting events can you say that about?

Look at the opponents this weekend for Bellew, Yafai, Hall, Thain, Simmons, Brophy etc. Woeful.

[Black Sam Bellamy]

Well said Magnus. If promoters stopped bringing these guys over then local fighters might just have to drop their egos and fight each other as a means to making a living. And the fans might just consider paying to watch it.

Keep seeing all these threads about British boxing being in rude health. Not really seeing it at the factory floor myself. Attendances are dipping for those cards that aren't being promoted through Sky. And that's because there's are dearth of decent quality match ups being made IMO.

[roy]

I assume that most lads who turn over do so with a romantic notion that their manager/promoter will get them fights and the more they win the more they will move up the rankings towards a title shot (whether that be and Area, English, British title or whatever).

No disrespect, but I would guess that very few turn over (initially at least) with the plan to end up with a 4-96 record - although there is certainly a niche for this type of boxer.

As with anything, there are 2 sides to every story. If a lad who is 3-1 is offered a fight away from home against another lad who is 3-1 then I am sure that most would take it.

If they are offered a fight against a 10-0 ex-England international who trains full-time then I can't exactly blame them for turning the fight down.[/quote]

I can tell you that "most" 3-1 would not take a fight against another 3-1. I would say that would be very rare indeed,[/quote]

Lol i can second this as well.An if you do find a lad ready to fight the other 3.1 guy will definatly not take it[/quote]
And ,in the meantime, both forego a payday!

[Boxing Prospect]

It's a shame we don't do a rookie style tournament for the novices

[mickey1975]

Most lads I know who turn over DO expect to go on the road. And Tijuana1 was 4-0 when he boxed Darren Askew 4-1.