Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

jamesmcdonnell
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by jamesmcdonnell »

caldo2025 wrote:
koolkc107 wrote:Let's keep this in perspective.

Using IVs is against WADA, but apparently not USADA or NSAC. And yeah, it might not seem 100% kosher...but it is lightyears more aboveboard to do the IVs AND get tested (before and after) than to walk away from a mountain of money because you refuse to do random testing at all.

Don't get things twisted...
This is a lot bigger than you are making it out to be. This couldn't be more shady. The infusion was not something that he copped to on his own accord. Floyd was found to have IV paraphernalia during a visit to his home. That's the only reason that he got pinched. Then all of a sudden, he gets the USADA to agree that he got approval from them and then they submit for approval 19 days after the fight? Are you kidding me? This is so filthy and egregious that the USADA could be done for good. Once some of these folks start rolling over on him, you may see some interesting things come out about your boy and just how clean he was.
Well, I think that their rep was already tarnished.

However, compared to the pathetically inadequate testing in boxing previously, almost anything is an improvement.

Boxing must have the worst anti doping policies of any major global sport.
caldo2025
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by caldo2025 »

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Well, I think that their rep was already tarnished.

However, compared to the pathetically inadequate testing in boxing previously, almost anything is an improvement.

Boxing must have the worst anti doping policies of any major global sport.
Jimmy-Irish, I think that you are missing the point here buddy. Floyd's been on his soapbox preaching about cleaning up the sport through testing when all along he had the testing company in his back pocket. Do you not find that at all alarming?

What did the world know about USADA before Floyd became their spokesman? Nothing. It's a business, like Nike or Coke. Floyd became their spokesman and made the company legitimate and prosper. I would be VERY interested to see if they still have some of Floyds samples on the shelf that we could have an independent outfit test out. If I'm the Nevada Boxing Commish, I'm demanding samples.

There's no way an athlete should have this type of relationship with one of their samples. Unethical beyond imagination.
jamesmcdonnell
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by jamesmcdonnell »

caldo2025 wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Well, I think that their rep was already tarnished.

However, compared to the pathetically inadequate testing in boxing previously, almost anything is an improvement.

Boxing must have the worst anti doping policies of any major global sport.
Jimmy-Irish, I think that you are missing the point here buddy. Floyd's been on his soapbox preaching about cleaning up the sport through testing when all along he had the testing company in his back pocket. Do you not find that at all alarming?

What did the world know about USADA before Floyd became their spokesman? Nothing. It's a business, like Nike or Coke. Floyd became their spokesman and made the company legitimate and prosper. I would be VERY interested to see if they still have some of Floyds samples on the shelf that we could have an independent outfit test out. If I'm the Nevada Boxing Commish, I'm demanding samples.

There's no way an athlete should have this type of relationship with one of their samples. Unethical beyond imagination.
I'm in agreement, I'm not arguing that, I'm just not in agreement that Floyd's entire career is somehow a busted flush based on this.
caldo2025
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by caldo2025 »

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
I'm in agreement, I'm not arguing that, I'm just not in agreement that Floyd's entire career is somehow a busted flush based on this.
It just sounds super shady to me how they found IV paraphernalia at his house and that's the only reason he got caught. Then he gets the USADA to try to cover his butt after the fact. It's very damaging and where there's smoke with this sort of thing, there's always been fire. I can't wait to find out where this goes.
jamesmcdonnell
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by jamesmcdonnell »

caldo2025 wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:
I'm in agreement, I'm not arguing that, I'm just not in agreement that Floyd's entire career is somehow a busted flush based on this.
It just sounds super shady to me how they found IV paraphernalia at his house and that's the only reason he got caught. Then he gets the USADA to try to cover his butt after the fact. It's very damaging and where there's smoke with this sort of thing, there's always been fire. I can't wait to find out where this goes.
Not sure where it can go, other than it destroying the rep of the USADA. A
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by IKSRTFO »

koolkc107 wrote:Let's keep this in perspective.

Using IVs is against WADA, but apparently not USADA or NSAC. And yeah, it might not seem 100% kosher...but it is lightyears more aboveboard to do the IVs AND get tested (before and after) than to walk away from a mountain of money because you refuse to do random testing at all.

Don't get things twisted...

Why would a boxer who doesn't struggle with weight need an IV to rehydrate?


Waiting. :??
IKSRTFO
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by IKSRTFO »

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
caldo2025 wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Well, I think that their rep was already tarnished.

However, compared to the pathetically inadequate testing in boxing previously, almost anything is an improvement.

Boxing must have the worst anti doping policies of any major global sport.
Jimmy-Irish, I think that you are missing the point here buddy. Floyd's been on his soapbox preaching about cleaning up the sport through testing when all along he had the testing company in his back pocket. Do you not find that at all alarming?

What did the world know about USADA before Floyd became their spokesman? Nothing. It's a business, like Nike or Coke. Floyd became their spokesman and made the company legitimate and prosper. I would be VERY interested to see if they still have some of Floyds samples on the shelf that we could have an independent outfit test out. If I'm the Nevada Boxing Commish, I'm demanding samples.

There's no way an athlete should have this type of relationship with one of their samples. Unethical beyond imagination.
I'm in agreement, I'm not arguing that, I'm just not in agreement that Floyd's entire career is somehow a busted flush based on this.

If Mosley, Jones, and Holyfield are judged based on their situations then so should Floyd.
Ricky_
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by Ricky_ »

koolkc107 wrote:Let's keep this in perspective.

Using IVs is against WADA, but apparently not USADA or NSAC. And yeah, it might not seem 100% kosher...but it is lightyears more aboveboard to do the IVs AND get tested (before and after) than to walk away from a mountain of money because you refuse to do random testing at all.

Don't get things twisted...

Pacquiao never at any point refused drug testing, it was a dispute over the 'cut-off' date that led the first fight negotiation to collapse.

It's ironic huh, after all the years of "take the tests"... the fight finally gets made, and Pacquiao comes up clean (like he always has) but Floyd gets busted :OhYes:

Poetic.
IKSRTFO
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by IKSRTFO »

Floyd can end up the Lance Armstrong of boxing. He will always have an asterisk by his name.
koolkc107
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by koolkc107 »

caldo2025 wrote:
koolkc107 wrote:Let's keep this in perspective.

Using IVs is against WADA, but apparently not USADA or NSAC. And yeah, it might not seem 100% kosher...but it is lightyears more aboveboard to do the IVs AND get tested (before and after) than to walk away from a mountain of money because you refuse to do random testing at all.

Don't get things twisted...
This is a lot bigger than you are making it out to be. This couldn't be more shady. The infusion was not something that he copped to on his own accord. Floyd was found to have IV paraphernalia during a visit to his home. That's the only reason that he got pinched. Then all of a sudden, he gets the USADA to agree that he got approval from them and then they submit for approval 19 days after the fight? Are you kidding me? This is so filthy and egregious that the USADA could be done for good. Once some of these folks start rolling over on him, you may see some interesting things come out about your boy and just how clean he was.
Maybe, maybe not.

USADA is maintaining Floyd gave them verbal notification of the IV well in advance and that NSAC, TR and Pac were notified immediately after the verbal notification. This makes sense, since you have heard no complaints from Arum or Pac in all this time.

This info has been public since May. There is Youtube of Floyd explaining this with a June posting date. You have to think that Pac and Flappy Bob would have cried foul back on May 20 when Floyd's TUE was approved apparently 3 weeks after the fact.

But they didn't raise a fuss at all...

...cuz they already knew.

Hope this makes sense to some folks. And BTW, it isnt like they can't go back and retest the samples. No need to panic or accuse yet.
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by caldo2025 »

koolkc107 wrote: USADA is maintaining Floyd gave them verbal notification of the IV well in advance and that NSAC, TR and Pac were notified immediately after the verbal notification. This makes sense, since you have heard no complaints from Arum or Pac in all this time.

This info has been public since May. There is Youtube of Floyd explaining this with a June posting date. You have to think that Pac and Flappy Bob would have cried foul back on May 20 when Floyd's TUE was approved apparently 3 weeks after the fact.

But they didn't raise a fuss at all...

...cuz they already knew.

Hope this makes sense to some folks. And BTW, it isnt like they can't go back and retest the samples. No need to panic or accuse yet.
Mayweather and the USADA gave Floyd's camp notice when they received the exception after the fact. Manny's camp was not aware of this until 19 days after the fact unless you've read something new out there that just came out.

And now, more things are coming to light as I expected. We have all been scratching our heads wondering why it has taken Floyd so long to declare who he's fighting. His first move has always been to first secure the date of the venue and then he waits until the last possible minute to declare who he's fighting and sign the contract. Once he signs the contract then the testing can be done. MANY now think it's because he's schedules everything out this way to hide the PED's that he's been pumping into his body n between fights. This would explain A LOT with the curious way Floyd's been running.

Like I said, this has shot up a flare that Floyd and his camp never wanted in the air. Everything is now coming to light and we are seeing the method to his madness. I can guarantee you something else pops up before Saturday's fight. This is in no way done. No way in heck. The world his seen this prick flash his money and perfect teeth in our faces for years showing how great his life is and there's a lot of people waiting to pounce on him. You watch...Floyd is all done.
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by Ricky_ »

koolkc107 wrote:
USADA is maintaining Floyd gave them verbal notification of the IV well in advance and that NSAC, TR and Pac were notified immediately after the verbal notification.


Nope...

Although Mr. Mayweather’s application was not approved until after his fight with Mr. Pacquiao and all tests results were reported, Mr. Mayweather did disclose the infusion to USADA in advance of the IV being administered to him. Furthermore, once the TUE was granted, the NSAC and Mr. Pacquiao were immediately notified even though the practice is not prohibited under NSAC rules.

The USADA are not saying the NSAC and Pac's camp were notified immediately, they were notified 20 days after the fight.

It's a scandal, what if the TUE wasn't approved? Fight's already taken place, the USADA would have allowed a fight to go ahead knowing 1 guy broke the rules.

Also, i don't believe them that Floyd "disclosed the IV drip in advance" for 2 reasons;

1. How would he know he would be so dehydrated he would need to give himself a drip 14x above the allowed limit of IV drip (50ml)?
2. How did he know he would be granted a TUE? Was he going to risk his entire reputation & $200m + plus on it?


How does that convo go, "Hey, USADA i'm taking an illegal drip, hopefully you'll exempt me for it, but if not, shiiiiit"
KBB
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by KBB »

caldo2025 wrote:
KBB wrote: See these little juvenile stabs at Floyd but says nothing of Manny's lackluster performance and the fact that Mayweather outlanded and beat him easily.

A rematch would be much worse for MP who was unable to do little to nothing the first time will end up being rendered mostly ineffective even moreso in a rematch.
WELL...WELL...WELL...what do we have here? It looks like someone's little action figure decided that he didn't have enough advantages on fight night already so he decided to take a banned IV completely against the rules. An IV test that most PED users use to mask the drugs they put in their body. I can't wait to hear you try to pass this off as legal and how it had no affect on the fight. I'd also like to hear how Manny didn't want to take the test. Let's hear that garbage again, KBB. Come on, for old time's sake?

KBB, this news nullifies a majority of your past arguments. Most people would call it a night and never visit this message board again but something tells me that you have more character than that. Something tells me that you will do the right thing and stay and answer the bell for the 12th. Where's your head at right now with this news? In all seriousness, i'm interested to hear what you think about this.
Not sure what you are talking about.
KBB
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by KBB »

Ok, I just saw it in another thread, sorry i been out of the loop for a few days, here's my response:

they found in the substances he was injected with corroborated with masking or attempting to mask. Well at least not what they described, vitamin C and hydrating agents dont do that. It would be interesting to see if they left anything else out

To put it more succinctly, USADA tested Floyd after the weigh in. As part of that, they found he used an IV that didn't have any banned substances. So Floyd applied for the exemption and got it because he didn't have any banned substances in the IVs. Overall, Floyd was tested over 12 times and they came back clean. The bigger issue seems to be an attack on USADA and probably whining about Pac not getting the Toradol shot. That's funny when it was NSAC that denied the shot, not USADA. Also, the author was one of the main dudes who spread the "Mayweather failed tests...." rumor a few years back.


The comparison to Pac's toradol request is ridiculous. First, Pac and team lied on the NSAC form about the "injury" then they asked for the shot at the 11th hour to treat an injury they lied about . Get outta here with that.

I love how Dan Rafael's fat ass, who is regarded as a respected journalist, stayed up late to retweet this shit but when Manny Pacquiao had legit PED accusations being thrown his way, supported by facts, you don't see anything. From what I hear, Rafael and Roach share agents or some shit, so that might make sense (I do recall them having that boxing telecast show on Epix).

Where was the article when Roach said "we thought Marquez was juicing but we let it slide because we weren't willing to test ourselves."

Where was the article when Manny claimed to be scared of needles despite owning a tattoo parlor attached to his gym?

Where was the article about Manny's insistence of using Toradol and not Cortizone?

Where was the article about Manny being healed by Magical water?

Where was the article about Manny's drug test stipulations?

Where was the article about Manny being drained by drug testing vs Morales?

Where's responsible, non-biased journalism?

We already know lol the media has its fix in. They want to destroy Mayweather any way they can, and protect and build up a fighter that's a 'yes man' to their agenda. They put Pacquiao on the same pedestal, they're passing the torch to GGG (ignoring people like Ward), and look how quick they built up Ronda Rousey.

This is just like when Floyd won the fight against Pac. What did the media do? Crap all over Floyd and tried to taint his well earned victory (e.g. boring, running, Manny's injury, etc.). Now here we are at Floyd's last fight and they're at it again. They're trying to cast a shadow over it with this garbage that, if you're being fair, you know it's not a remotely material matter despite all the "technical rules" noise.

It appears that Nevada Commission Director Bob Bennett sides with the Tom Hauser Article. Here is Anthony's video. It's long, but it talks about Floyd's situation, that the USADA needs to get out of the sport, Manny's shoulder injury and more. Anthony also questions that if Floyd needed the IV, fighters don't re-hydrate in this way. Lots of dirty laundry being talked about here. Floyd claims he did nothing wrong because the USADA said that what they did was not a Nevada rule's violation. Nevada says no, that the USADA has no authority to over-step the bounds of the state commissions. Anthony, a former boxer himself ,says that in his research, the USADA only has the authority to administer the testing and report the results. They cannot over-ride a commission by approving something that the commission had no knowledge of receiving until after the fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRmyO0vV6Ds

the fight already went down 4 months ago, and people still can't let the rivalry go.

USADA did screw up. I think the issue was dealing with the pressure of this fight, the magnitude behind it. There were lots of officials in turmoil, trying to make the fight an actuality, all the way to its point. People have to remember this. It is stated that you're not allowed to use more than 50ml in the span of 6 hours, but because of the possible pressure of the fight, Mayweather was granted an Exemption and allowed to use 750ml in less than 6 hours before the fight. People can speculate that as much was used to possibly clear out PED usage because being dehydrated would seem unlikely, based on his claims of his weight, which could also mean he has lied about his weight in fights, particularly this fight since there is no official weight listed for him. Even so, those are only left with speculations because the IV injections only consisted of fluid containing Vitamins and Saline. Both NSAC and Pacquiao were both notified of this. The records were published May 31st. Thomas Hauser brought this up September 9th in order to obviously fuel speculation and to possibly discredit Mayweather. But, since USADA/WADA not only allowed it, but also notified NSAC and Pacquiao of it, it's not Mayweather's own personal doing, but him abiding by what was granted to him.
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by koolkc107 »

The one thing all these folks who are trying to imply Floyd was masking PEDs can't get around is how tests right before the IV and right after the IV all come back squeaky clean.

And I said it before, if it is a weight issue, why is Floyd using less than a liter of fluid to hydrate? He put the equivalent of about 26 ounces in his body.

No way that leads to any huge weight gain, nor does it indicate a problem cutting weight.

It does sound like a guy who has worked so hard his metabolism is going overtime.
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by Pureist »

You showed up kbb, so Floyd accidentally fell on the IV needle, usada didn't know they couldn't issue a TUE and his testosterone ratios from previous fights, what's your reasoning there?
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by punchoutsb »

Any links to facts about Floyd's previous T:E ratios?
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by MachoTime »

KBB wrote:
caldo2025 wrote:
KBB wrote: See these little juvenile stabs at Floyd but says nothing of Manny's lackluster performance and the fact that Mayweather outlanded and beat him easily.

A rematch would be much worse for MP who was unable to do little to nothing the first time will end up being rendered mostly ineffective even moreso in a rematch.
WELL...WELL...WELL...what do we have here? It looks like someone's little action figure decided that he didn't have enough advantages on fight night already so he decided to take a banned IV completely against the rules. An IV test that most PED users use to mask the drugs they put in their body. I can't wait to hear you try to pass this off as legal and how it had no affect on the fight. I'd also like to hear how Manny didn't want to take the test. Let's hear that garbage again, KBB. Come on, for old time's sake?

KBB, this news nullifies a majority of your past arguments. Most people would call it a night and never visit this message board again but something tells me that you have more character than that. Something tells me that you will do the right thing and stay and answer the bell for the 12th. Where's your head at right now with this news? In all seriousness, i'm interested to hear what you think about this.
Not sure what you are talking about.
Really?
KBB
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by KBB »

MachoTime wrote:Really?
First off I don't get on this site everyday but if you would've taken the time to read above you'd see that I did go and catch up on the story, why people have to act like anuses on this site is beyond my understanding, as if all one has time for is to follow boxing or be on Boxrec. :doh:
Pureist
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by Pureist »

Kbb, how do you feel about your poster boy being a cheat, proven fact now
MachoTime
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by MachoTime »

KBB wrote:
MachoTime wrote:Really?
First off I don't get on this site everyday but if you would've taken the time to read above you'd see that I did go and catch up on the story, why people have to act like anuses on this site is beyond my understanding, as if all one has time for is to follow boxing or be on Boxrec. :doh:
I was looking at your post times. I figured it probably took you 11 minutes to post your response to Caldo. 11 minutes ago from when you did not know what was going on with the Mayweather IV fiasco. It's amazing how you can read up on it that fast and type at the same time.
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by Pureist »

punchoutsb wrote:Any links to facts about Floyd's previous T:E ratios?
Mayweather’s testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio for the April 3, 2013, sample was 0.80. His testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio for the Aug. 18, 2011, sample was 0.69.


“That’s a warning flag,” says Don Catlin. “If you’re serious about the testing, it tells you to do the CIR test.”

The Nevada State Athletic Commission wasn’t as knowledgeable with regard to PED testing several years ago as it is now. Commission personnel might not have understood the possible implications of the 0.69 and 0.80 numbers. But USADA officials were knowledgeable.

Did USADA perform CIR testing on Mayweather’s urine samples during that time period? What were the results? And if there was no CIR testing, what testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio did USADA’s tests show? At present, the answers to these questions are not publicly known.

Note to investigators: CIR tests can be performed retroactively on frozen samples.

All of this leads to another issue. As noted by NSAC executive director Bob Bennett, “As of now, USADA does not give us the full test results. They give us the contracts for drug testing and summaries that tell us whether a fighter has tested positive or negative. It is incumbent on them to notify us if a fighter tests positive. But no, they don’t give us the full test results. lab reports on full sb article
KBB
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by KBB »

MachoTime wrote:I was looking at your post times. I figured it probably took you 11 minutes to post your response to Caldo. 11 minutes ago from when you did not know what was going on with the Mayweather IV fiasco. It's amazing how you can read up on it that fast and type at the same time.
Yes it is amazing, I have the uncanny ability to be able to speed read and respond almost within an instant, glad you noticed but it's nothing to get suspicious about because I do it 99.9% of the time.
punchoutsb
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by punchoutsb »

Pureist wrote:
punchoutsb wrote:Any links to facts about Floyd's previous T:E ratios?
Mayweather’s testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio for the April 3, 2013, sample was 0.80. His testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio for the Aug. 18, 2011, sample was 0.69.


“That’s a warning flag,” says Don Catlin. “If you’re serious about the testing, it tells you to do the CIR test.”

The Nevada State Athletic Commission wasn’t as knowledgeable with regard to PED testing several years ago as it is now. Commission personnel might not have understood the possible implications of the 0.69 and 0.80 numbers. But USADA officials were knowledgeable.

Did USADA perform CIR testing on Mayweather’s urine samples during that time period? What were the results? And if there was no CIR testing, what testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio did USADA’s tests show? At present, the answers to these questions are not publicly known.

Note to investigators: CIR tests can be performed retroactively on frozen samples.

All of this leads to another issue. As noted by NSAC executive director Bob Bennett, “As of now, USADA does not give us the full test results. They give us the contracts for drug testing and summaries that tell us whether a fighter has tested positive or negative. It is incumbent on them to notify us if a fighter tests positive. But no, they don’t give us the full test results. lab reports on full sb article
Both are below normal, but don't necessarily indicate recent steroid usage. Floyd's older, so his levels will naturally be down a little.

That being said, Floyd is carrying a lot of muscle and doesn't seem at all lethargic or listless as low testosterone levels would have him.

All in all, I personally don't think it adds up, and they really need to look into this since they put these stupid rules and regulations in place.
caldo2025
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Re: Rift Growing Between Pac & Arum?

Post by caldo2025 »

KBB wrote:
MachoTime wrote:I was looking at your post times. I figured it probably took you 11 minutes to post your response to Caldo. 11 minutes ago from when you did not know what was going on with the Mayweather IV fiasco. It's amazing how you can read up on it that fast and type at the same time.
Yes it is amazing, I have the uncanny ability to be able to speed read and respond almost within an instant, glad you noticed but it's nothing to get suspicious about because I do it 99.9% of the time.
Macho, don't buy a word of that garbage. I knew he'd play coy with the information but i never thought he'd go all Tom Hanks in Castaway on us. So he's been on a deserted island for a few days and had no idea the love of his life was a despicable cheat. It's an interesting move but i'm not buying it.
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