London O2 Sept 12th RBR

[Boxerbeetle]

Eff this, I'm going to bed. See you at 2am

[sendo]

No chance Whyte gets stopped like that, light years above Cornish let alone in terms of power to keep Joshua honest.

[Boxing Prospect]

Whyte Vs Joshua will see what...Joshua still in domestic fights after 15 fights?...

[rd350lc]

whyte will go the same way as cornish

He might well do , but will offer a far stiffer test than what you saw tonight

[JC]

Whyte Vs Joshua will see what...Joshua still in domestic fights after 15 fights?...

Was just looking at Wlad and Lennox at the same point in their careers (coming up for two years as a pro).

Lennox (29 yrs old in his 14th fight) took on Gary Mason for the British title

Wlad (22yrs old, 23 fights) stepped out of fighting domestic German opposition for the first time to fight...Ross Puritty.

[Finn]

I'm in a moany mood...but what the eff was the point? Might as well have picked a guy from the pub
Oh now Joshua's going to work the pads for 30 minutes so Sky can sell us he's dead fit and all that...

eff off Sky.

"toughest test on paper" says it all really doesn't it

After Dillian Whyte if AJ wins he should certainly just step up to world level - Stivern, arreola for a fight then gun for Wilder their is no point messing around at domestic level. If he pushes it he may still get the chance to face wlad.

He should already be fighting European level guys...guys like Duahapas, Teper and even Helenius would have been fine. Pulev wouldn't be a bad guy to target for his first fight of 2016.

IMO Arreola is shot. Stiverne wouldn't be terrible though.

He said he wants to work his way through all the belts, which is fair enough but if he's doing that he needs to get the belt and move to the next belt straight away instead of packing in meaningless fights. Teper would be a decent step up after Whyte but then definitely someone like pulev or fury, with a view to fighting Wilder end of next year at the latest.

[jameswilson]

Whyte Vs Joshua will see what...Joshua still in domestic fights after 15 fights?...

Prospect you keep harping on about these guys who fight for WTs in 5 fights. You're aware you're talking about extreme exceptions aren't you? You make out like there are some 30+ boxers currently who have done that. Out of interest who was Roman Gonzalez fighting in his 16th, 17th, 18th fight? After those fights were you up in arms banging on about how Inoue had his WTs by fight number 5?

What about Iwasa and Kameda who had the holier than thou Japanese style upbringing of fighting the best fights all the time rather than this sh1t British style of developing fighters that we have that developed guys like Jamie McDonnell and Lee Haskins who beat them.

It's how it's done early on here. It's up to all of us to get used to it, it's not something Eddie Hearn invented because Frank did it too with Amir Khan and other prospects. Just deal with it and stop using daft extreme examples and make them out to be the norm and demand that every prospect be groomed that way.

[brilo33]

whyte will go the same way as cornish

He might well do , but will offer a far stiffer test than what you saw tonight

going by what whyte got hit loads of times tonight by a we man,looked like minto wobbled him in 2nd to

[handsofstone]

First time id seen Bellotti,he's got a fun style for the pros and will be in some good fights,he mixes the shots up and down well but he's a bit wild and wont get away with that even at domestic level

Credit to Hadjouis though he took a beating for 6 rounds and still never gave up trying

He earned his dough

[Boxing Prospect]

Whyte Vs Joshua will see what...Joshua still in domestic fights after 15 fights?...

Prospect you keep harping on about these guys who fight for WTs in 5 fights. You're aware you're talking about extreme exceptions aren't you? You make out like there are some 30+ boxers currently who have done that. Out of interest who was Roman Gonzalez fighting in his 16th, 17th, 18th fight? After those fights were you up in arms banging on about how Inoue had his WTs by fight number 5?

What about Iwasa and Kameda who had the holier than thou Japanese style upbringing of fighting the best fights all the time rather than this sh1t British style of developing fighters that we have that developed guys like Jamie McDonnell and Lee Haskins who beat them.

It's how it's done early on here. It's up to all of us to get used to it, it's not something Eddie Hearn invented because Frank did it too with Amir Khan and other prospects. Just deal with it and stop using daft extreme examples and make them out to be the norm and demand that every prospect be groomed that way.

I'm not the one describing him as world class like so many are, I'm not the one yelling he should be facing world class opponents, I'm not the one cheer leading his mismatches. I want to see him step up to European class, something the could have done SEVERAL fights ago. That's nothing to do with the likes of Inoue, Gonzalez, Tanaka, Estrada. That's to do with others screaming Joshua is this that or the other.

As for Gonzalez the likes of Iwasa and Kameda (who as you know was brought through the Mexican ranks) none of them were Olympic champions. McDonnell and Haskins, as you've mentioned them, were interestingly British champions in 7 (McDonnell) and Commonwealth in 14 (Haskins). In fact McDonnell was European champion in his 14th fight and had traveled for that title. There is no need in padding a record with so many mismatches.

There is NO REASON why Joshua isn't mixing with European level opposition.

As you say, Warren did it too...and has continued to. Doesn't mean I'm supporting Warrens match making either.

I'm not expecting every prospect to be moved quickly but I'm not expecting Olympic champions to be fighting domestic level competition 3 years and 15 fights after showing themsleves to be the best in the unpaid ranks. Degale (fight #11) and Groves (fight #13) was brilliant match making and it certainly didn't serve either guy any harm, in fact if anything Groves got the boost and has regressed whilst DeGale has improved substantially since then. Degale was at European level a year later whilst Groves was eyeing up fringe world level guys.

[expe]

Whyte Vs Joshua will see what...Joshua still in domestic fights after 15 fights?...

Prospect you keep harping on about these guys who fight for WTs in 5 fights. You're aware you're talking about extreme exceptions aren't you? You make out like there are some 30+ boxers currently who have done that. Out of interest who was Roman Gonzalez fighting in his 16th, 17th, 18th fight? After those fights were you up in arms banging on about how Inoue had his WTs by fight number 5?

What about Iwasa and Kameda who had the holier than thou Japanese style upbringing of fighting the best fights all the time rather than this sh1t British style of developing fighters that we have that developed guys like Jamie McDonnell and Lee Haskins who beat them.

It's how it's done early on here. It's up to all of us to get used to it, it's not something Eddie Hearn invented because Frank did it too with Amir Khan and other prospects. Just deal with it and stop using daft extreme examples and make them out to be the norm and demand that every prospect be groomed that way.

I agree with you on the general point but he is right about Joshua, there's no need for him to be fighting at domestic level at this stage.

Khan isn't really the best fighter to compare Joshua with because he turned pro at 18 and still needed time to mature, but even he was fighting similar level opponents to Cornish in half the time Joshua has taken. Joshua is nearly 2 years into his professional career and had 13 fights before tonight, at the same stage Khan fought Willie Limond for the Commonwealth title.

Better comparison would be James DeGale, who also won an Olympic gold medal and turned pro at a similar age to Joshua, he beat Paul Smith for the British title in his 9th fight, fought Groves in his 11th, won the European title in his 12th fight, after that he lost his way a bit, became a bit inactive and ended up fighting in shopping centres on Channel 5 and was a bit forgotten, but in the last 18 months he's got back on track and is now world champion, although he should have fought for a world title at least 12 months earlier than he did.

Even Frankie Gavin with all his personal problems and the work needed to get him out of the amateur style at the time that almost resembled fencing was moved faster than Joshua.

[digzee]

Whyte Vs Joshua will see what...Joshua still in domestic fights after 15 fights?...

Prospect you keep harping on about these guys who fight for WTs in 5 fights. You're aware you're talking about extreme exceptions aren't you? You make out like there are some 30+ boxers currently who have done that. Out of interest who was Roman Gonzalez fighting in his 16th, 17th, 18th fight? After those fights were you up in arms banging on about how Inoue had his WTs by fight number 5?

What about Iwasa and Kameda who had the holier than thou Japanese style upbringing of fighting the best fights all the time rather than this sh1t British style of developing fighters that we have that developed guys like Jamie McDonnell and Lee Haskins who beat them.

It's how it's done early on here. It's up to all of us to get used to it, it's not something Eddie Hearn invented because Frank did it too with Amir Khan and other prospects. Just deal with it and stop using daft extreme examples and make them out to be the norm and demand that every prospect be groomed that way.

I agree with you on the general point but he is right about Joshua, there's no need for him to be fighting at domestic level at this stage.

Khan isn't really the best fighter to compare Joshua with because he turned pro at 18 and still needed time to mature, but even he was fighting similar level opponents to Cornish in half the time Joshua has taken. Joshua is nearly 2 years into his professional career and had 13 fights before tonight, at the same stage Khan fought Willie Limond for the Commonwealth title.

Better comparison would be James DeGale, who also won an Olympic gold medal and turned pro at a similar age to Joshua, he beat Paul Smith for the British title in his 9th fight, fought Groves in his 11th, won the European title in his 12th fight, after that he lost his way a bit, became a bit inactive and ended up fighting in shopping centres on Channel 5 and was a bit forgotten, but in the last 18 months he's got back on track and is now world champion, although he should have fought for a world title at least 12 months earlier than he did.

Even Frankie Gavin with all his personal problems and the work needed to get him out of the amateur style at the time that almost resembled fencing was moved faster than Joshua.

You can add Joshua's 2012 teammate Campbell to that too, beating Coyle in his 12th fight is a hell of a lot more impressive then anyone on AJ's record.

[brilo33]

Billy Joe Saunders amateur to pro 22 fights till a . world title fight

[Boxing Prospect]

Billy Joe Saunders amateur to pro 22 fights till a . world title fight

No Olympic medal
Commonwealth in #13
British in #16 (against a Great test in Blackwell when Saunders was 23)
European, British and Commonwealth in 20 (beating unbeaten and well regarded Emanuele Blandamura)

Aged just 26 in a tough division (not one derided as being relatively pathetic)...also NO ONE is saying that BJS is the best Middleweight...since...or the heir to the throne, or an ATG in the making. Joshua 2 months younger, being declared the next great Heavyweight and is in a division regarded as pathetic, other than the top dog.

It's the "hype to achievement" ratio that is irritating. Joshua is "the best thing since sliced bread" whilst BJS is a "Middleweight prospect". If you want to build Joshua (who remember won a gold medal unlike Saunders) as a "prospect" then don't sell him as being more than that. Sell him as a prospect, let the commentators sell him as such.

A lot of the irritation comes from Sky and their mis-marketing of him as well as the fact an Olympic champion is taking THIS LONG to fight at European level.

[jameswilson]

There's been a lot of quoting other medalists who did things such as BJS and DeGale as well as Groves and DeGake fighting each other. Am I missing something or were DeGale and Groves both World class when they boxed each other? Joshua v Whyte is domestic class for Brit and Commonwealth titles but Groves v DeGale is World level because it suits the argument? BJS wins commonwealth in 13th and Brit in 16th and that's worth writing home about. Josh wins commonwealth in 14th and Brit in 15th and its 'wahhhh what's the point??? I don't like the commentator or the promoter.'

Also there's quoting of guys winning European honours AFTER their 15th fights when what's to say Joshua won't fight for it after the Whyte fight.

And Charlie Edwards is NOT being proclaimed as World class by anyone even the commentators and you complained that he was fighting for the English title in his 4th fight. There was no 'ohhhh this is faster than DeGale progressed!!!!' It was 'wahhhhh Inoue did it faster.'

Charlie Edwards got slagged off by you earlier when there is no hype surrounding him (and Sky aren't making him out to be World class they just over praised his work) and still there's a fu cking issue with him having what was considered to be a hard 50-50 for the English title. And you went and said he should be compared to Inoue and co???? Why???? He isn't a medallist and isn't being proclaimed by anyone to be a future World champ by anyone other than maybe his own team who obviously have to say it.

I actually do think the stabilisers will part be taken off of Josh after this Whyte fight. I don't think it's unrealistic that someone European class or the equivalent from outside of Europe will be looked at. Like I said, if he defends his Brit title against someone not European class I'll be amazed. The Whyte fight is a lucrative fight that will generate a lot of publicity and draw a line under the domestic scene. We see people complain that fighters don't fight for Brit and Commonwealth and now he is in a grudge match and if he wins in 2 it will be 'well that was pointless!'

[Boxing Prospect]

There's been a lot of quoting other medalists who did things such as BJS and DeGale as well as Groves and DeGake fighting each other. Am I missing something or were DeGale and Groves both World class when they boxed each other? Joshua v Whyte is domestic class for Brit and Commonwealth titles but Groves v DeGale is World level because it suits the argument? BJS wins commonwealth in 13th and Brit in 16th and that's worth writing home about. Josh wins commonwealth in 14th and Brit in 15th and its 'wahhhh what's the point??? I don't like the commentator or the promoter.'

Also there's quoting of guys winning European honours AFTER their 15th fights when what's to say Joshua won't fight for it after the Whyte fight.

And Charlie Edwards is NOT being proclaimed as World class by anyone even the commentators and you complained that he was fighting for the English title in his 4th fight. There was no 'ohhhh this is faster than DeGale progressed!!!!' It was 'wahhhhh Inoue did it faster.'

Charlie Edwards got slagged off by you earlier when there is no hype surrounding him (and Sky aren't making him out to be World class they just over praised his work) and still there's a fu cking issue with him having what was considered to be a hard 50-50 for the English title. And you went and said he should be compared to Inoue and co???? Why???? He isn't a medallist and isn't being proclaimed by anyone to be a future World champ by anyone other than maybe his own team who obviously have to say it.

I actually do think the stabilisers will part be taken off of Josh after this Whyte fight. I don't think it's unrealistic that someone European class or the equivalent from outside of Europe will be looked at. Like I said, if he defends his Brit title against someone not European class I'll be amazed. The Whyte fight is a lucrative fight that will generate a lot of publicity and draw a line under the domestic scene. We see people complain that fighters don't fight for Brit and Commonwealth and now he is in a grudge match and if he wins in 2 it will be 'well that was pointless!'

BJS didn't win a medal, he was in the Olympics as a teenager and failed to medal.
Degale won Gold and faced Groves (who was on an upwards trajectory himself) in fight...10 (I can't remember, too lazy to check) but what was the type of time where Joshua Vs Whyte should have taken place, not 12 months later. And Groves wasn't world class when they fought, he was on an upward trajectory parallel to Groves, not on a different level to him, Joshua now is on a different plane to Whyte, as a result the fight is a waste of time.

Joshua might go for it in fight 15, the other fighters mentioned though WEREN'T (other than Degale) and Olympic Gold medal winner, they didn't have the comms saying they were the next best thing etc etc etc.

Charlie Edwards was talked up for fighting at "English title level" in fight #5...apparently (according to someone) there are 8 fighters in the division in the UK, so basically wow, he's the best of 8 (well 7 Butcher is Scottish after all). Lets all praise him for that huh? Like you said they over-praised him, as they do EVERY fornicating TIME a Matchroom fighter is in action. Inoue, Inoue, Tanaka, Ken Shiro and Maruta never really did well internationally yet they want to build Edwards on his amateur pedigree and praise him for what he did in 5 fights. When internationally the top guys at the weight are at fringe world level after 5 fights, not "the best of 8 in a country lacking depth". If Sky calmed their fornicating tits on what he did after 5 fights then fair enough but Halling was drooling, when really the fight was crap. Both guys showed a lack of quality, despite how competitive it was on paper. To put it another way, Ken Shiro did better against Nagamine, when Ken Shiro was at an earlier step in his career and giving away weight to an unbeaten guy.

The Whyte fight is lucrative, but it wasn't like that fight couldn't have happened 6 months ago. It's time for Joshua to push on, not think "well...I could fight Whyte...then..." the Whyte fight, IMO should have already happened. The division is there for the taking and there is no reason why he doesn't move quicker.

Do you really think ANYTHING was gained by today's fight?

[jameswilson]

I thought it was fairly well known that the Whyte fight hasn't happened earlier purely down to Whyte wanting more time after injuries and trainer issues. Today's fight may not have served any purpose but like I say, when a similar situation arises on the other channels you sit quiet and are nowhere near as vitriolic.

I'm struggling with the point you're trying to make with Edwards. It's his 5th fight and he ain't looking a World beater so your not happy. It's a division where there are very few good Europeans let alone Brits. What exactly are you suggesting he does? Drag a World class Asian over and lose?? They are not claiming him to be World class, just that in his 5th fight he could have been fighting imported journeymen over 6 rounds Instead so deserves credit for taking the fight and getting the win. So why do you keep feeling the need to reel off The top Asian boxers names in every damn post. It's like you have some kind of Tourette's whenever a Brotish guy at Superbantam or below is fighting. Even if its at fuc king English title level!

[Boxing Prospect]

I thought it was fairly well known that the Whyte fight hasn't happened earlier purely down to Whyte wanting more time after injuries and trainer issues. Today's fight may not have served any purpose but like I say, when a similar situation arises on the other channels you sit quiet and are nowhere near as vitriolic.

I'm struggling with the point you're trying to make with Edwards. It's his 5th fight and he ain't looking a World beater so your not happy. It's a division where there are very few good Europeans let alone Brits. What exactly are you suggesting he does? Drag a World class Asian over and lose?? They are not claiming him to be World class, just that in his 5th fight he could have been fighting imported journeymen over 6 rounds Instead so deserves credit for taking the fight and getting the win. So why do you keep feeling the need to reel off The top Asian boxers names in every damn post. It's like you have some kind of Tourette's whenever a Brotish guy at Superbantam or below is fighting. Even if its at fuc king English title level!

If Whyte wants more time then let Joshua push on and see if Whyte can catch him, don't delay one man for the other.

There was also a European title fight at 112lbs today and I dare say Selby could jump in at that level and still feel at ease. Edwards isn't a world beater but the commentary made him sound like like he was doing something better than beating the #3 or #4 in Britain. I'm suggesting that he performs BETTER than a guy who misses that much if the commentary want to rave about him. Again I dare say Ken Shiro Vs Nagamine showed a bigger level of difference in class.

I'm suggesting dragging over a domestic level Asian (i dunno, Tetsuma Hayashi maybe? Yosuke Sakashita?) It wasn't the level of that bout, it was the actual quality of his performance in regards to the commentary. He missed a shit load of shots against a guy who was terrible. No one is claiming Ken Shiro to be world class, yet he has the basics down to a T, Edwards didn't show anything like that level of ability.

You mention "top Asian" yet Ken Shiro, again a 4-0 (3) fighter who hasn't fought at Japanese level, is showing significantly more advanced skills than English champion Edwards. I'm not using top guys from the East I'm using like-for-like there prospect for prospect. "English fuc king level" shouldn't be much below "WBC youth fuc king level" right?

[jameswilson]

I must have missed the bit where Sky said he'd wipe the floor with Ken Shiro. To keep mentioning him you'd think they f ucked his mother and broadcast the video during the commercial break. And you're actually suggesting dragging an Asian journeyman over to box Edwards in his 5th fight. How much is that going to cost? (and don't mention European journeyman being used instead because you know the difference in cost) Are we just ignoring what makes common sense now. I'll tell you what, you set up your own promotional outfit for Europes flyweight fighters, drag some Asian fighters over for them to fight at greater cost than fighters from their own country and see what happens. No extra people will show up, and no extra people will tune in. Even if you do the commentary and reel off your Filipino light flyweight rankings it's not a profitable way of promoting.

Unfortunately building quality guys at the lower weights over here is hard going because there are so few boxers about at the weight. Edwards is NOT being made out to be a World beater. Nick Halling is a poor commentator. I fIl to see how the two last sentences lead on to you calling him crap.

Now can you do one thing with your reply. Don't mention Ken fuc king Shiro.

[Boxing Prospect]

I must have missed the bit where Sky said he'd wipe the floor with Ken Shiro. To keep mentioning him you'd think they f ucked his mother and broadcast the video during the commercial break. And you're actually suggesting dragging an Asian journeyman over to box Edwards in his 5th fight. How much is that going to cost? (and don't mention European journeyman being used instead because you know the difference in cost) Are we just ignoring what makes common sense now. I'll tell you what, you set up your own promotional outfit for Europes flyweight fighters, drag some Asian fighters over for them to fight at greater cost than fighters from their own country and see what happens. No extra people will show up, and no extra people will tune in. Even if you do the commentary and reel off your Filipino light flyweight rankings it's not a profitable way of promoting.

Unfortunately building quality guys at the lower weights over here is hard going because there are so few boxers about at the weight. Edwards is NOT being made out to be a World beater. Nick Halling is a poor commentator. I fIl to see how the two last sentences lead on to you calling him crap.

Now can you do one thing with your reply. Don't mention Ken fuc king Shiro.

I'm suggesting dragging an Asian domestic level guy over for a supposed prospect, kinda like the way Eddie uses Argentinian journeymen..I doubt there's a significant amount of difference in cost (I might be wrong but one will improve the British kid, the other won't). There aren't a significant amount of European journeymen at Flyweight so we need to get them from South America or Asia, and the South American kids have shown their limitations in recent times.

If they are wanting to get Edwards, Satchell, Butcher, Butler a world title at 112/115 THEY NEED TO PAY OUT. You're right there are so few fighters in the division over here, and in Europe so we need the teams of the guys to send them out over to Thailand, Japan, Mexico to get the development that we tend to see in the rings over here in the middle weights. If they are viewing Andrew Selby as a real prospect (which I suspect we all do) they need to send him for time at the Ohashi Gym of the ALA gym as there isn't the guys over here for him to develop those skills. His team need to invest to get that level of polish.

Edwards was being made out to be something special, not world class but special for "claiming an English title in JUST his 5th bout" [ignoring the division]. Nick Halling is awful, but he wasn't the only one talking about Edwards being something a bit tasty. There I never mentioned Mr Teraji Jr.

[rm1]

Premature stoppage in my opinion although the result was in no doubt. What a chump Cornish must be feeling he will struggle to regain confidence after this. He was woeful didn't even hold effectively.

[Mimmy]

Even Hearn looked embarrassed when he got in the ring after that farce, all those willing boxing fans buying tickets & turning up in force, and he serves up a disastrous mismatch like that. Piss poor by mismatcroom.

I'm not sure that many people expected it to be over quite that quickly to be fair!

I think they did tbh, I predicted 150 seconds in another thread many weeks ago. Cant believe Laddies were giving 9/4 I dont gamble anymore but that was a gift and I bet many had winning tickets last night.

[keirw]

Anyone else a bit miffed that they showed a prospect battering a journeyman at the end rather than showing recordings/highlights of Boylan vs Connor and Martin vs Devine?

[jameswilson]

I did think it was fairly obvious that Argentines are cheaper than most to bring over whereas the Japanese travel outside of Japan (due to having a good prosperous system over there) very very seldom. Hence in my opinion it isn't realistic for our guys to take on the Japanese early in their careers unless they travel to Japan to do it.

Whatever tho, I respect your opinion, just vehemently disagree that what you want to happen is realistic in any way. I also think after the Whyte fight the apprenticeship will be done with and Josh will be loved straight into European class. And if that happens that wouldn't put him a million miles behind any or many other Brit prospects through history. On Halling I agree he is terrible but I just try to ignore him, I think there are a few decent guys at Sky. I personally rate Ed Robinson.

[JimJim2009]

I predicted Cornish would not last a round when the fight was announced and I was not having a moment of genius, it was obvious to anyone who'd seen Gary in action. Ken shiro would have lasted longer than Cornish.