Anthony Joshua

[Leonid]

For me the current top 15 is something like this:

1 Klitschko
2 Povetkin
3 Kubrat Pulev
4 Ruslan Chagaev
5 Anthony Joshua
6 Joseph Parker
7 Bryant Jennings
8 Lucas Browne
9 Alexander Ustinov
10 Vyacheslav Glazkov
11 Tyson Fury
12 Erkan Teper
13 Francesco Pianeta
14 Arthur Szpilka
15 Carlos Takam

Chisora simply wouldn't be a serious test, Chisora is about equal to Dillian Whyte for me.

Ustinov is too low

[kaiserbill]

Sigh...we've been here before with David Price.

Although Cornish had an undefeated record, he'd fought a succession of almost unknown bums mostly with healthy losing streaks. He wasn't even a full time pro, and his employer gave him 6 weeks off work to prepare for the fight FFS.

I personally do think Joshua has all the tools, but before gushing all over the floor, I'd like to see him fight someone decent. Someone in the top 30 who can actually fight back, or bring skill or tools to the fight. And although he dispatched him very well, even his highest profile opponent, Johnson, had lost 5 of his last 6, and wasn't even in the Boxrec top 30 (and possibly 40) as far as I can remember.

It's time to put him in with a better calibre opponent. Dillian Whyte has mostly fought a succession of tomato cans as a pro, and is thus domestic level. Boxrec barely has him in the top 50.

I'd actually like to see him fight someone in the top 30, top 20, or even top 10 first. Somebody who hits back and tests his whiskers would be a start.

[stevedoc]

Sigh...we've been here before with David Price.

Although Cornish had an undefeated record, he'd fought a succession of almost unknown bums mostly with healthy losing streaks. He wasn't even a full time pro, and his employer gave him 6 weeks off work to prepare for the fight FFS.

I personally do think Joshua has all the tools, but before gushing all over the floor, I'd like to see him fight someone decent. Someone in the top 30 who can actually fight back, or bring skill or tools to the fight. And although he dispatched him very well, even his highest profile opponent, Johnson, had lost 5 of his last 6, and wasn't even in the Boxrec top 30 (and possibly 40) as far as I can remember.

It's time to put him in with a better calibre opponent. Dillian Whyte has mostly fought a succession of tomato cans as a pro, and is thus domestic level. Boxrec barely has him in the top 50.

I'd actually like to see him fight someone in the top 30, top 20, or even top 10 first. Somebody who hits back and tests his whiskers would be a start.

Price was always considered a bit chinny he got blasted a couple of times as an amateur AJ hasn't , I agree we need to see him fight a higher level I'm just not sure who that is kubrev ?povetkin ? Takam. The trouble is all the heavies have been blasted by wlad and hence damaged

[Tony1244]

Would it be too ridiculous to look for someone like Chisora or Stiverne after Whyte?

I would love to see him destroy Joe Parker

Chisora would be a good shout.

Dereck is a bit of pudding who usually loses when he steps up class, but it would give Joshua an indication of where he is in his career.

If he can blitz Chisora, then he will know he is just about ready to step up to the big boys.

For me the current top 15 is something like this:

1 Klitschko
2 Povetkin
3 Kubrat Pulev
4 Ruslan Chagaev
5 Anthony Joshua
6 Joseph Parker
7 Bryant Jennings
8 Lucas Browne
9 Alexander Ustinov
10 Vyacheslav Glazkov
11 Tyson Fury
12 Erkan Teper
13 Francesco Pianeta
14 Arthur Szpilka
15 Carlos Takam

Chisora simply wouldn't be a serious test, Chisora is about equal to Dillian Whyte for me.

No Wilder anywhere? I'd have Fury higher and Chagaev lower, but not a bad list. But even if you don't like Wilder, i think he should be somewhere on the list.

[jezzamundo]

For me the current top 15 is something like this:

1 Klitschko
2 Povetkin
3 Kubrat Pulev
4 Ruslan Chagaev
5 Anthony Joshua
6 Joseph Parker
7 Bryant Jennings
8 Lucas Browne
9 Alexander Ustinov
10 Vyacheslav Glazkov
11 Tyson Fury
12 Erkan Teper
13 Francesco Pianeta
14 Arthur Szpilka
15 Carlos Takam

Chisora simply wouldn't be a serious test, Chisora is about equal to Dillian Whyte for me.

Ustinov is too low

I think Ustinov is too high. It depends on whether you are ranking the fighters based on ability, accomplishments or a combination of the two. Regardless, I think Chagaev is way too high, Joshua and Parker are too high (they may be that good, but haven't fought good enough opposition to prove it so far), Browne is too high (I'm an Aussie, he stuggled with Julius Long FFS!). Fury is way too low, as is Takam.

[asdfjkl]

No Wilder anywhere? I'd have Fury higher and Chagaev lower, but not a bad list. But even if you don't like Wilder, i think he should be somewhere on the list.

Wilder hasn't proved anything yet, he just got very weak opponends especially if you actually pay attention to his real achievements.
Take a look at Damon McCreary for example.
14 wins, 0 loses, this must be some serious guy right?
Then you look again and it turns out he has only had 3 fights in the past 11! years!!!
Then still you think, Shannon Briggs isn't the worst fighter in the world either, but then you notice that he gained allmost a 100 pounds during those years!
This guy was actually a 168 pound boxer in his prime?!
Well sorry but you can't take that serious right?
But you know, let's forgive him, perhaps his management made a mistake and it was a short KO fight anyway.

Let's check Jason Gavern, rank 166 in the world, not that bad at all right? This fight just happened about a year ago, so it's still quite recent and relevant. Jason won 25 fights and lost 16, not good at all, but whatever, rank 166 is rank 166.
Hold on, he actually had 3 fights on one day before this?! Now that's odd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPeYplT2qPU
What the hell they are fighting outside in the burning sun?!
What? Are the commentators saying he's not in shape at all?
He has only trained to fight 4 rounds at max?
Wut?! He has never been KO at all, he just stopped because he was tired, while sitting at a chair?!
Even Zhang Jun Long TKO this guy faster as Wilder did?!

Who else he fought? Stivern? Who never fought any European at all? Molina? Who's actualy a fulltime teacher?!
Malik Scott, that's a known name, let's watch that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jws9K_RTCy4
Wut?! Look at it, the guy doesn't get hit, the hit get's right past his head?!
Even the crowd is booing their own guy?!

No offense mate, but this guy got nothing to do in the top of the boxing world.

I now understand fully why he ignores Shannon Briggs, Shannon would destroy this kid.

Wilder is a hyped fraud mate, I really can't change much about that, he received the belt for free from Vitali Klitschko and that's just about it. He probably also only did it to hype up the American heavyweight division again.
No offence, but that's just the way it is.

[Tony1244]

No Wilder anywhere? I'd have Fury higher and Chagaev lower, but not a bad list. But even if you don't like Wilder, i think he should be somewhere on the list.

Wilder hasn't proved anything yet, he just got very weak opponends especially if you actually pay attention to his real achievements.
Take a look at Damon McCreary for example.
14 wins, 0 loses, this must be some serious guy right?
Then you look again and it turns out he has only had 3 fights in the past 11! years!!!
Then still you think, Shannon Briggs isn't the worst fighter in the world either, but then you notice that he gained allmost a 100 pounds during those years!
This guy was actually a 168 pound boxer in his prime?!
Well sorry but you can't take that serious right?
But you know, let's forgive him, perhaps his management made a mistake and it was a short KO fight anyway.

Let's check Jason Gavern, rank 166 in the world, not that bad at all right? This fight just happened about a year ago, so it's still quite recent and relevant. Jason won 25 fights and lost 16, not good at all, but whatever, rank 166 is rank 166.
Hold on, he actually had 3 fights on one day before this?! Now that's odd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPeYplT2qPU
What the hell they are fighting outside in the burning sun?!
What? Are the commentators saying he's not in shape at all?
He has only trained to fight 4 rounds at max?
Wut?! He has never been KO at all, he just stopped because he was tired, while sitting at a chair?!
Even Zhang Jun Long TKO this guy faster as Wilder did?!

Who else he fought? Stivern? Who never fought any European at all? Molina? Who's actualy a fulltime teacher?!
Malik Scott, that's a known name, let's watch that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jws9K_RTCy4
Wut?! Look at it, the guy doesn't get hit, the hit get's right past his head?!
Even the crowd is booing their own guy?!

No offense mate, but this guy got nothing to do in the top of the boxing world.

I now understand fully why he ignores Shannon Briggs, Shannon would destroy this kid.

Wilder is a hyped fraud mate, I really can't change much about that, he received the belt for free from Vitali Klitschko and that's just about it. He probably also only did it to hype up the American heavyweight division again.
No offence, but that's just the way it is.

Yes, we'd all like Wilder to face Jennings, Pulev, and Povetkin, and not Molina, and some French guy. But we all know, or all should know, boxing is a business. The plan is for Wilder to beat easy touches like Molina and then make Million $$$ against Wlad. Wilder wouldn't get enough money risking a loss to Povetkin and blowing much bigger money against Wlad.

You make valid points on guys with inflated records like McCreary who are retired middleweights who have gotten fat. But that's where you being right ends. Wilder is no hype job. 98% KO ratios don't come easy, even against limited opposition. Wilder was the first guy to knock a lot of people out which counts for something. Another thing in his favor is he is ranked #4 by boxrec which is computerized rankings. Wilder beat Stiverne, who beat a highly ranked Arreola twice. Arreola was highly ranked at the time. Arreola had KOd Mitchell, who had beaten Banks twice. A fixed fight is difficult to prove or disprove but fighters haven't gotten badly hurt, KOd, and even killed by shots that didn't look like much. We all look for the head to snap back but not all shots do that. Scott had a great resume with a disputed draw against highly regraded Glaskov. So yes, NOT having Wilder in the top 15 is absurd, with all due respect.

Also, his critics said he couldn't go over 4. That was disproven has Wilder displayed a heart, a jab, durable legs, and some ring generalship in his last two outings.

Perhaps Wilder will get KOd early by Wlad. But he has proven way too much already be calling him hype.

[kaiserbill]

No Wilder anywhere? I'd have Fury higher and Chagaev lower, but not a bad list. But even if you don't like Wilder, i think he should be somewhere on the list.

Wilder hasn't proved anything yet, he just got very weak opponends especially if you actually pay attention to his real achievements.

And yet Joshua has???

What a strange argument.

By all means don't rate Wilder because of his rubbish opposition, but then don't include Joshua at 5.
Because, you know, it makes a mockery out of your own argument.

[Tony1244]

No Wilder anywhere? I'd have Fury higher and Chagaev lower, but not a bad list. But even if you don't like Wilder, i think he should be somewhere on the list.

Wilder hasn't proved anything yet, he just got very weak opponends especially if you actually pay attention to his real achievements.

And yet Joshua has???

What a strange argument.

By all means don't rate Wilder because of his rubbish opposition, but then don't include Joshua at 5.
Because, you know, it makes a mockery out of your own argument.

It's not my list.

I would have had Joshua a couple pegs lower, still top 10, and Wilder certainly in the top 5.

[kaiserbill]

I know it's not your list Tony. I'm agreeing with you.

I'm simply pointing out to the poster asdfjkl that to not include Wilder in a Top 15 because "he hasn't proved anything yet" and has "weak opponends" (sic) but then to put Joshua at 5, shows an astounding lack of awareness, not to mention consistency.

[koolkc107]

I am on record about Anthony Joshua.

I think the kid is Joe Louis, come back to us.

[asdfjkl]

No Wilder anywhere? I'd have Fury higher and Chagaev lower, but not a bad list. But even if you don't like Wilder, i think he should be somewhere on the list.

Wilder hasn't proved anything yet, he just got very weak opponends especially if you actually pay attention to his real achievements.

And yet Joshua has???

What a strange argument.

By all means don't rate Wilder because of his rubbish opposition, but then don't include Joshua at 5.
Because, you know, it makes a mockery out of your own argument.

Oh come on, Antony Joshua has only had 15 fights yet, nobody ever made it past the third round, he faced opponends that have never been KO against Tyson Fury, Dereck Chisora, Tor hamer, Christian Hammer, Haumono, Charr, name them.
Now that opponend didn't win against all of them, but not getting KO against all those fighters proves something as well right?
What happened? The guy was lucky to make it to the second round.
Also, out of those 15 fights 5 of them were top 100 opponends, even Wilder combined with his next opponend (Duhaupas) have less victorys against top 100 opponends on their name.
And Joshua didn't just win, he KOed all of them within 4 rounds.

Now I won't say Wilder is a complete bum, but he just hasn't really proved anything yet either.

Chris Arreola isn't a bum either, but let's get real, he has lost against all of his European opponends (a top 3 fighter and a top 30 ish fighter).
Stiverne never fought anyone out of Europe and, neither did Molina.
Duhaupas has proved he's worser as Erkan Teper is as well as Francesco Pianeta.
Also note that Duhaupas is a tipical pointscorer, he doesn't go for the KO, unless he has to, or if his opponend isn't any good.
Because of that, I predict that Wilder-Duhaupas probably won't end in a KO fight.

Fact that computorized rankings are often pointless is pretty much proven by this stuff, especially if you haven't lost or won a match yet or only against top contenders or complete bums.

If I lose against Klitschko and Povetkin I can still be a top contender or a complete bum. If I win against a bunch of bums I can still be a top contender or just another just above complete bum, a computer can't messure that.
Take a look at Bryant Jennings, for me he's rank 1 of America, according to the computer Thompson and Tarver are better.

Joshua his first opponend was a 8 win 0 loses opponend, now then he's supposed to be the massive underdog right?
But everybody could easely see Joshua was just a very good opponend, just based on his looks and amaturehistory.

Wilder has proven for me that he's a top 50 contender because of the guys he beated, but so is everybody else on my list and many many more, like Briggs, Whyte, Ortiz, like Hughie Fury,

Now I admit it's just my opinion, and who knows Wilder hits Klitschko down in the first round and who knows Stiverne as well as Molina could easely do the same job, but I personaly don't think so.

[kaiserbill]

That's a long winded reply that doesn't make your argument any more coherent. Thanks for taking the time to explain, though.

Both Wilder and Joshua haven't really fought any top drawer fighters. Most of their opponents have been tomato cans.
Them's the facts.

Not rating Wilder in a top 15 because of that very reason but ignoring the same for Joshua and installing him at 5 is bizarre, and ensures your argument makes no sense.

Disclaimer: I think Joshua has the goods. Maybe Wilder does too.
I'm questioning your reasoning on this, not his talent, or his potential to go further.
Maybe then you should call it a personalised list of your opinions about potential?
Either way, this is all academic and we will have to wait until both fighters start actually fighting guys in the top 10 or 20 regularly.
The future will be interesting as things unfold, I'm sure.

IMHO, of course.

[asdfjkl]

Joshua has had an opponend that fought the top and that top never could KO him.
Joshua did KO him without problems, because of that I schedule Joshua as a top contender.
Time will prove me right, and I'm really confident that Joshua would win a fight against Wilder right now, and probably pretty much any point in the future as well.
Same story with Joseph Parker, who seems to be more impressive as Wilder for me as well.

Wilder seems to have a looooot more problems with top 50 ish contenders as Joshua, as well as Parker do.

[BAD INTENTIONS]

asdfjkl is another Freedom 2013 ... probably an alias.

Not listing WIlder among your top 15 heavyweights removes any credibility you have as a knowledgeable boxing fan.

[punchoutsb]

asdfjkl is another Freedom 2013 ... probably an alias.

Freedom is a valuable poster on this board. asdfjkl would need to prove himself a good poster who contributes interesting threads before that comparison could be made.

[Freedom2013]

Joshua is the real deal.

I can't imagine either Wilder or Fury lasting three rounds against him.

It would be better if Joshua fought bona fide top 15 HWs from now on. He's too good to be fighting journeymen.

[crusader]

Wilder is easily within the top 10 for me and I have him ahead of Joshua largely due to the Stiverne win, but I wouldn't be remotely surprised if Joshua went 34-0 (34) against the opponents Deontay has fought.

Even at this point I'd favor AJ to knock out Stiverne, although part of proving oneself is showing that you aren't going to falter and drop contests people expect you to win.

[Yes We Can]

Joshua is the real deal.

I can't imagine either Wilder or Fury lasting three rounds against him.

It would be better if Joshua fought bona fide top 15 HWs from now on. He's too good to be fighting journeymen.

Wilder certainly has the power to end this argument. Depends who is more positive in the fight as whoever takes the front foot ends this early, who has the better jab? Wilder has proven he can go 12 and his hand speed would be easily the best AJ has come up against (AJ's still quicker in both hand and footspeed) to many questions for a definitive answer for both men.

[Tony1244]

I am on record about Anthony Joshua.

I think the kid is Joe Louis, come back to us.

You may very well be right. People always criticize the Heavyweights. Even in the avowed great 1970s, at the time, most said it was a weak division. People criticize the HWs today, but with prospects like Joshua, Parker, and the Furys, there is some real promise.

[Tony1244]

Joshua has had an opponend that fought the top and that top never could KO him.
Joshua did KO him without problems, because of that I schedule Joshua as a top contender.
Time will prove me right, and I'm really confident that Joshua would win a fight against Wilder right now, and probably pretty much any point in the future as well.
Same story with Joseph Parker, who seems to be more impressive as Wilder for me as well.

Wilder seems to have a looooot more problems with top 50 ish contenders as Joshua, as well as Parker do.

I would also pick Joshua against Wilder. Not because I think Wilder is overrated, but because I think Joshua may be the best HW prospect I've ever seen. But Wilder has fought a few more top guys than Joshua, as well he should have. He's been in the pro ranks about 4 years longer. Joshua is way ahead of Wilder at a similar point though

If Joshua, Parker, Wilder, Wlad, Browne, and the Furys mix it up between themselves in the next few years, I don't see how anyone is negative on the Heavyweight division.

[asdfjkl]

I would also pick Joshua against Wilder. Not because I think Wilder is overrated, but because I think Joshua may be the best HW prospect I've ever seen. But Wilder has fought a few more top guys than Joshua, as well he should have. He's been in the pro ranks about 4 years longer. Joshua is way ahead of Wilder at a similar point though

If Joshua, Parker, Wilder, Wlad, Browne, and the Furys mix it up between themselves in the next few years, I don't see how anyone is negative on the Heavyweight division.

The heavyweight division became less interesting in America because they simply didn't have any serious top boxers in that division any more.
And neither boxers with an amazing story, except for Wilder, but let's get real, his numbers are shocking, but so are his opponends.

Also note that Joshua already fought 5 contenders out of the top 100, while Wilder only had 3 yet.
Those 5 fought another 15 ish opponends out of the top 100, while those 3 fought like 5 other top 100 opponends and none of those 5 have been won against Europeans. In other words, Wilder did not fight a few more top guys as Joshua did at all.
Also note that Joshua only started as a pro back in 2013, but simply fights like 5 or 6 matches a year!
Out of all the professional boxers, only Parker can keep up with that rate.

[Lackeos]

For me the current top 15 is something like this:

1 Klitschko
2 Povetkin
3 Kubrat Pulev
4 Ruslan Chagaev
5 Anthony Joshua
6 Joseph Parker
7 Bryant Jennings
8 Lucas Browne
9 Alexander Ustinov
10 Vyacheslav Glazkov
11 Tyson Fury
12 Erkan Teper
13 Francesco Pianeta
14 Arthur Szpilka
15 Carlos Takam

Chisora simply wouldn't be a serious test, Chisora is about equal to Dillian Whyte for me.

Ustinov is too low

Well how about my list?
1 Ustinov
2 Ustinov
3 Ustinov
4 Ustinov
and
5 Ustinov

Because he spits hot fire.

[Leonid]

For me the current top 15 is something like this:

1 Klitschko
2 Povetkin
3 Kubrat Pulev
4 Ruslan Chagaev
5 Anthony Joshua
6 Joseph Parker
7 Bryant Jennings
8 Lucas Browne
9 Alexander Ustinov
10 Vyacheslav Glazkov
11 Tyson Fury
12 Erkan Teper
13 Francesco Pianeta
14 Arthur Szpilka
15 Carlos Takam

Chisora simply wouldn't be a serious test, Chisora is about equal to Dillian Whyte for me.

Ustinov is too low

Well how about my list?
1 Ustinov
2 Ustinov
3 Ustinov
4 Ustinov
and
5 Ustinov

Because he spits hot fire.

Sorry, guys, I should've put the smily face after being sarcastic, as I don't have any reputation on here yet. I actually never saw Ustinov making top 10 on anyone's list ever before, he clearly doesn't have either resume or skills, so I decided to emphasize his place to make fun of the rankings.

PS. Surely AJ is the real deal, he will most definitely be a champion, anyone with a combination of decent skills and that much size and power would be. And i'm not talking only the power behind one's best shots, great athleticism enables to hurt opponents with half-punches from any angle. Ability to take punishment does not have to be a major concern. Look at Wlad and Wilder, i'm pretty sure they both have a below average chin. Price has a real glass chin as established in the ams, no jab and also seems to have a great power only in his straight right, if allowed to unleash it on a relatively stationary target. And as far as clear dominance over division, I'm not sure we'll see that anytime soon, if Wlad retires undefeated.

[PredatorHayds]

Really is no rush with Joshua.

He wants to go the traditional British route.

He has commonwealth, fighting for British next then European in March.

He will be easier to judge then as Teper would be the best name on his record.
He could then fight a high ranked Brit or European to defend his European or British belt.

Depending on how the heavyweight landscape is either fight could potentially double up as a world title eliminator.

All going well I can't see him fighting for world honours til the end of 2016 or early 2017.