The sparring partners of Sonny Liston

[Caractacus]

check out this incredible (and also pristine)footage of Sonny Liston in training in Sweden back in June 1966 from the AP Archives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdEGeBa0alc

(BTW Is that the former middleweight champ Carl "Bobo" Olson at 2:22 sparring with Liston?)

[Caractacus]

check out this incredible (and also pristine)footage of Sonny Liston in training in Sweden back in June 1966 from the AP Archives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdEGeBa0alc

(BTW Is that the former middleweight champ Carl "Bobo" Olson at 2:22 sparring with Liston?)

also Im pretty sure that thats Joseph"Pep"Barone
giving instrcutions to Liston while he is sparring.
You know now that I think about it,you just dont hear too many of those old school East Coast accents much anymore.
They seem to have gone by the wayside over the years.

Thats probably why whenever I find it difficult to sleep, I usually tune the radio on
to the station to hear Dr. Michael Savage( from Queens,New York)
to hear his voice.
It just brings back memories to hear em.

[pbchron]

That is Joe Polino, (not Pep Barone) one of Philly's top trainers and cut men. Polino was best known as Joey Giardello's lead trainer until he was replaced by Adolf Ritacco, who was replaced by Polino until he was again replaced by Ritacco. Long story. Polino worked with Liston for years along with Willie Reddish and Milt Bailey. Liston's original Philadelphia trainer was "Jimmy Wilson," who trained all of Blinky Palermo's fighters and was considered Philly's all-time best trainer + cutman. Wilson (real name Vincent Silvano) died Nov. 1958. Pep Barone "fronted" as the manager until they brought in George Katz in 1961 as manager in a move to make Liston more presentable to the boxing commission in New York. The Liston managerial scenario was almost as complicated as corporate America's financial shenanigans to avoid prosecution for their endless fraud.

[Caractacus]

man,you right,thanks for correcting that.
thats who I meant to say it was,Joe Polino.
He was the only member of Liston's camp who stayed with him after the Lewiston Maine debacle.
He stayed with Liston until Liston got a boxing license again to fight in the USA
and was dropped for Dick Sadler as trainer/manager
(although I think Sammy Davis jr. name was justed used as a shill as manager
to help influence get his license back.
Anyway Joe Barone was from Allentown PA.
and Joe Polino was from Philadelphia PA.
You can just hear the "Goodfellas" in his voice there.
BTW Does that look like Bobo Olson he is sparring with?
Olson was fighting as a light Heavyweight back then.

[pbchron]

caractacus, That is definitely not Bobo Olson. Bobo was a lot slicker than this guy and I never saw Bobo switch to southpaw. Bobo was one of the smoothest "infighting" operators I ever saw.

[Caractacus]

Yeah,but Liston was in training to fight a southpaw(Gerhard Zech)
so maybe thats why perhaps Bobo Olson may have looked so bad in switching over trying to fight like one?
also Olson had sparred with Liston before in Philadelphia in 1963 too.

[evrenb]

Looks a little like Jurgen Blin to me - but I believe Blin was orthodox stance...

[Caractacus]

check out this incredible (and also pristine)footage of Sonny Liston in training in Sweden back in June 1966 from the AP Archives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdEGeBa0alc

(BTW Is that the former middleweight champ Carl "Bobo" Olson at 2:22 sparring with Liston?)

here is some footage of Bobo Olson and Archie Moore from 1955 to compare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aauGEqbDYqs

[donking]

Sonny and George posing in a Liston training camp photo.

Cheers GI....

this pic looks photoshoped ? does anybody know if it is?

[evrenb]

Sonny and George posing in a Liston training camp photo.

Cheers GI....

this pic looks photoshoped ? does anybody know if it is?

I reckon its genuine - I spoke with George a long time ago - and he was lovely - he said that there was footage of him and Sonny sparring....

[Caractacus]

yeah, but was there some kind of law that would have prevented him from sparring or even begin fighting in a southpaw stance
just to mix up his style?

[dr_devious]

Some insight from George Foreman on Twitter about his spars with Sonny Liston

[klompton]

The picture of Foreman and Liston is not fake. It was taken in a Houston gym in 1969 while Liston was there preparing to fight Sonny Moore. Foreman fought Cookie Wallace on the undercard. Both were managed by Dick Saddler at the time. Notice the posters in the background which give away its location. Also do a search on Foreman and Liston and you will see at least one more photo of them taken together at the same gym and wearing the same clothes/cups etc.

[Tony1244]

There was a great picture posted here of Liston and Foreman in a ring during one of Liston's Training camps. I just can't find it now.

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch& ... CAY&uact=5

[dr_devious]

Liston looks old enough to be Foreman's dad on that pic

[Caractacus]

Here is a partial list of some of the sparring partners Sonny Liston used to one degree or another during his ring career.
If anyone knows others please list them here.

Amateur days 1952-1953
Thurmond Wilson
Foneda Cox(1953-1955,1962-1965)
Steve Howlett
Nino Valdez(Liston just about to turn pro ,sparred with Valdez when Valdez was in St. Louis to fight Archie Moore)

circa 1959-1965
Ernie Terrel (for Albert Westphal fight 1961)
Lou Bailey-Aurora Downs
Chico Gardener-Aurora Downs
Jim McCarter (Patterson I)
Ben Skelton (Patterson I)
"Slim"Jim Robinson(Patterson I)
Ray Shoeninger
Jesse Smith
Howard King (Patterson II)
Leotis Martin (Patterson II)
Jesse Bowdry-Surfside Miami Beach
Richard Norden
Ollie Wilson
Jim Robertson(?Slim Jim Robinson)

1964-1965
Larry Brown
Billy Joiner
Amos"Big Train" Lincoln(1963-1965)
Leroy Green(1964 for cancelled Boston fight)
Alonzo Johnson
Lee Williams(1964 for cancelled Boston fight)
Art"Tiger"Wright
Floyd Joiner
Chauncey Hudson(170 lbs)
Don Smith(239 lbs)
Curtis"Honey Boy"Bruce(1965)
Willie Richardson

1966-1969
Tommie Simms
Art Swiden
Wayne Heath(for Billy Joiner fight also public exibitions 1968)
Mac Foster
Freddie Little(middleweight)
Charlie Shipes(welterweight)
George Foreman
Clarence Williams
Chester Walton
Cornell Nolen
Johnny Mac

I wonder how many of Sonny Liston's former sparring partners are still around ?

[klompton]

Sorry to be a cynic but that photo has always looked fake to me. I've seen it many times and it's like neither man is reacting to the other being so close. The perspective doesn't look right either.

I'd love it if someone could prove me wrong.

I'm not saying they didn't spar just that the photo doesn't look right.

I will add that Foreman doesn't look big enough relative to Liston. In this photo they are approximately the same height, and Foreman's body mass, in comparison with Sonny's, seems strangely small. Ditto for the comparative size of each boxer's head.

Foreman was always bigger and bulkier than Liston, no?

As I said above, the photo is genuine. It was taken in a Houston gym in 1969. There are more photos taken on this day, in this series showing the two of them together wearing the same gear.

[Controversial]

Sorry to be a cynic but that photo has always looked fake to me. I've seen it many times and it's like neither man is reacting to the other being so close. The perspective doesn't look right either.

I'd love it if someone could prove me wrong.

I'm not saying they didn't spar just that the photo doesn't look right.

I will add that Foreman doesn't look big enough relative to Liston. In this photo they are approximately the same height, and Foreman's body mass, in comparison with Sonny's, seems strangely small. Ditto for the comparative size of each boxer's head.

Foreman was always bigger and bulkier than Liston, no?

As I said above, the photo is genuine. It was taken in a Houston gym in 1969. There are more photos taken on this day, in this series showing the two of them together wearing the same gear.

I'm not sure it is real, I seem to recall someone asking Foreman on twitter or facebook about it and Foreman said it wasn't a real photo. It doesn't like right to me either.

[klompton]

Believe what you want. Its real. The supposed response from Foreman said it was fake because he never went shirtless sparring To believe its fake youd have to believe someone went to an awful lot of trouble to fake a series of photos in the late sixties between a washed up ex champion and a recent entrant into the pros at a gym they actually trained at. Why? Its ridiculous. Its that hard to believe there are actually photos of these two together when they were sparring partners and stablemates? Wouldnt be more believable that photographers were actually at this gym taking pictures... which they were.

[Controversial]

Believe what you want. Its real. The supposed response from Foreman said it was fake because he never went shirtless sparring To believe its fake youd have to believe someone went to an awful lot of trouble to fake a series of photos in the late sixties between a washed up ex champion and a recent entrant into the pros at a gym they actually trained at. Why? Its ridiculous. Its that hard to believe there are actually photos of these two together when they were sparring partners and stablemates? Wouldnt be more believable that photographers were actually at this gym taking pictures... which they were.

I'm not saying they didn't spar or have photos but I'm sure I read a response from Foremans official social media account that this specific photo wasn't real, that's all I'm saying. Photoshop is very easy to do and some mischievous boxing fan wanting to spread a never seen before photo to get 'likes' or some sort of praise isn't unusual either. To me it looks photoshopped, only because their body positions don't look right, I'm not saying there aren't real photos out there somewhere though.

[klompton]

Again, to what purpose?? This is from a series of photos taken by the media. One of the photos resides in the Getty archive from a newspaper morgue with provenance. So again, you have to believe that if this photo is fake that someone took a picture of Foreman and a picture of Liston from the same day as the others from the same location, wearing the same outfits, and photoshopped them together to make them look like they are shadowboxing in the same ring... Then you have to explain where this photoshop user got the two photos that he combined. Why have no photos showing these fighters in these poses in this gear elsewhere ever surfaced? If some random photoshopper got ahold of them then where are they in the digital age? All that effort. Why? The mental gymnastics to believe that are beyond silly. As for what Foreman has said, you could fill a book with all of the nonsense hes spewed over the years. Again, his reasoning for why he believed the photo was fake was because he said he never went shirtless sparring. Ridiculous. But as I said, believe what you want.

[Controversial]

Again, to what purpose?? This is from a series of photos taken by the media. One of the photos resides in the Getty archive from a newspaper morgue with provenance. So again, you have to believe that if this photo is fake that someone took a picture of Foreman and a picture of Liston from the same day as the others from the same location, wearing the same outfits, and photoshopped them together to make them look like they are shadowboxing in the same ring... Then you have to explain where this photoshop user got the two photos that he combined. Why have no photos showing these fighters in these poses in this gear elsewhere ever surfaced? If some random photoshopper got ahold of them then where are they in the digital age? All that effort. Why? The mental gymnastics to believe that are beyond silly. As for what Foreman has said, you could fill a book with all of the nonsense hes spewed over the years. Again, his reasoning for why he believed the photo was fake was because he said he never went shirtless sparring. Ridiculous. But as I said, believe what you want.

Where are the other photos of them together on the same day? I have no strong opinion either way, just saying what I read elsewhere and what I think looks like a photoshopped image. I might be wrong but its just what I instantly thought when I saw that pic, as others have too. There is brief video footage of them shadow boxing in front of each other without gloves on but Foreman was wearing a t-shirt

[klompton]

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/yo ... =2048x2048

Same gym, same outfits, etc. dated september 12, 1969 Houston TX. Training for the second Sonny Moore fight. Ever hear of Occams Razor? The simplest explanation is likely correct. But again: If you wish to believe that some nameless photoshop enthusiast got pictures of Liston and Foreman that nobody can find independently and photoshopped them into a picture of the same Houston gym they trained at wearing the same gear they trained together in for the purpose of... what I dont even know. Thats your prerogative.

[Controversial]

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/yo ... =2048x2048

Same gym, same outfits, etc. dated september 12, 1969 Houston TX. Training for the second Sonny Moore fight. Ever hear of Occams Razor? The simplest explanation is likely correct. But again: If you wish to believe that some nameless photoshop enthusiast got pictures of Liston and Foreman that nobody can find independently and photoshopped them into a picture of the same Houston gym they trained at wearing the same gear they trained together in for the purpose of... what I dont even know. Thats your prerogative.

Apologies this is the photo Foreman said was fake, not the other one. He said he doesn't know who the other guy even is. As I said there is video of them shadow boxing, and Foreman was in a white t-shirt.

[margaret thatcher]

foreman isnt nearly that dark, in this case id trust the mans own word that it's not him