Ali vs Holmes: The Last Hurrah...35 Years Later

[elmersalsa]

On October 2, 1980, the boxing world saw one of the saddest chapters in the history of heavyweight boxing. It was a very sad night for boxing when the great and washed up 38 year old Muhammad Ali was attempting to become the heavyweight champion of the world for the 4th time. He challenged a prime 30 year old great champion named Larry Holmes for the Real Universally Recognized Heavyweight World Championship. Holmes was the WBC World Heavyweight Champion. He accepted the match because, one, the money was too much to refuse. And two, anybody would like to be recognized as the real heavyweight champion of the world. He had to fight his idol, even though he was in a loss-loss situation. Ali was not in his prime, was fat and overweight, and at 38, was coming out of retirement.

I still cannot believe that the WBC and the Nevada Boxing Commission, approved this fight to be made. Even though they KNEW the state of The Greatest, when he went to a clinic for two neurological tests of hand and reflexes coordination. It didn't looked good. Ali was also suffering from slurred speech and definitely, was looking too painful and slow in the gym workouts.

These GREEDY BASTARDS, (Nevada State Boxing Commission and the promoters of this fight), were all to blame. Why they didn't took and revoke Ali's boxing license? Why these greedy bastards approved this fight? They should have been incarcerated for attempted murder.

The fight was painful to watch. No magic tricks for Ali on this night. Father Time was knocking on his door way before this fight, for at least 5 years. This wasn't the turbulent 60's decade. Not even the early 70's. It was a fresh new decade with a great champion in his era. Even in this fight, The Easton Assassin didn't want to hurt The Greatest. I imagine that it was painful for Larry to beat up his idol. But, at the same time, would he make that money with anyone else? He got to eat. He got to put food in his table. He got to take care of his wife and kids. The OPPORTUNITY was knocking at his door for a big payday that cannot be refused. Would you turn that money down even if you knew that the former champion is no where of a shape to beat you? Most people wouldn't. So why Larry?

Holmes won every round. He was in control. He knew Ali couldn't hurt him nor even belong in the same ring with him, so he took it slow and carried him the best that he could. The Last Hurrah fight ended in the 10th, with Ali sitting on his stool. Angelo Dundee, Ali's long-time trainer and friend had enough. He told the referee, Richard Green, to stop this uneventful and pitiful contest that proved nothing for both fighters. And one of Ali's cornermen, Bundini Brown, wanted the fight to continue? This showed to me that this greedy bastard was not even Ali's true friend to begin with.

The fight was over in the 10th. A TKO win and sad night for Holmes. The year 1980 was not a great year for a lot of people. Two months later, on November 25th, another favorite fighter of mine, the great Roberto Duran, quits in the 8th round, in the middle of a fight, to the great Sugar Ray Leonard in the "No Mas" rematch in New Orleans. Thirteen days later, music great rocker, the ex-Beatle, John Lennon, was shot and killed in New York City. And end of an era.

[Ezzard]

Add to that...

Alfred Hitchock died in 1980.

I look back at that year as the end of many good things.

[milpool]

Add to that...

Alfred Hitchock died in 1980.

I look back at that year as the end of many good things.

Yeah, my parents split up in 1980 too...

As for Ali v Holmes, I watched this about a year ago and I'm not sure if I remember Ali doing anything other than cover up. It seemed like Holmes was holding back and was just hoping the referee would step in sooner rather than later.

A year later, Ali faced Trevor Berbick and although he was still very poor and shot to bits, I felt he performed slightly better against Berbick than he did against Holmes.
The question is, had Ali beaten Berbick, what would he have done next...?

[littlepug]

Add to that...

Alfred Hitchock died in 1980.

I look back at that year as the end of many good things.

Yeah, my parents split up in 1980 too...

As for Ali v Holmes, I watched this about a year ago and I'm not sure if I remember Ali doing anything other than cover up. It seemed like Holmes was holding back and was just hoping the referee would step in sooner rather than later.

A year later, Ali faced Trevor Berbick and although he was still very poor and shot to bits, I felt he performed slightly better against Berbick than he did against Holmes.
The question is, had Ali beaten Berbick, what would he have done next...?

not many can say they fought Ali, Holmes and Tyson !

[gregor]

A year later, Ali faced Trevor Berbick and although he was still very poor and shot to bits, I felt he performed slightly better against Berbick than he did against Holmes.

He performed much better just because Berbick was nowhere around Holmes calibre. That is IMO the main reason Ali (even 20 pounds heavier... carieer high BTW) was still able to make it competitive against Berbick, while Holmes would be difficult opponent even in his prime.

[milpool]

A year later, Ali faced Trevor Berbick and although he was still very poor and shot to bits, I felt he performed slightly better against Berbick than he did against Holmes.

He performed much better just because Berbick was nowhere around Holmes calibre. That is IMO the main reason Ali (even 20 pounds heavier... carieer high BTW) was still able to make it competitive against Berbick, while Holmes would be difficult opponent even in his prime.

Agreed, Berbick wasn't anywhere near the ability of Holmes. However, in watching the fight, at no stage was Ali in trouble and I just wonder what would have happened had he nicked it on the scorecards...not that it was close, but I'm thinking hypothetically? Would his handlers milked another shot at the title or would he have fought on against another fringe contender until he eventually got beat and hung them up for good?

[Ambling Alp II]

Berbick didn't look good. However, Ali certainly looked better against Berbick than Holmes. He could hardly throw a punch against Holmes. Any decent 6-round level fighter would have beaten him the night he fought Holmes.

Against Berbick, he showed flashes. He was just really slow and had to pace himself. I think even if he got the decision against Berbick he would have retired.

[elmersalsa]

Add to that...

Alfred Hitchock died in 1980.

I look back at that year as the end of many good things.

A bad year if you were a Democrat, too! President Jimmy Carter lost the election to former actor and Republican Ronald Reagan by a landslide

Ayatollah Khomeini had America hostage by the balls. It was the beginning of the eight-year Iran-Iraq war.

Who shot J.R.?

Houston Astros super star pitcher, J.R. Richard had a stroke. Had he been healthy, maybe the Astros would've made their first world series trip by beating the Philadelphia Phillies in the NLCS

And Kentucky Fried Chicken creator Colonel Sanders, dies :(

[elmersalsa]

USA boycotted the '80 Summer Olympics? Donald Curry's dream of a gold medal was shattered, along with some other boxing hopefuls for the USA. :(

[Syntax Error]

Add to that...

Alfred Hitchock died in 1980.

I look back at that year as the end of many good things.

Yeah, my parents split up in 1980 too...

As for Ali v Holmes, I watched this about a year ago and I'm not sure if I remember Ali doing anything other than cover up. It seemed like Holmes was holding back and was just hoping the referee would step in sooner rather than later.

A year later, Ali faced Trevor Berbick and although he was still very poor and shot to bits, I felt he performed slightly better against Berbick than he did against Holmes.
The question is, had Ali beaten Berbick, what would he have done next...?

I have asked this question before too.

Smokin' Joe Frazier ironically came back after 5.5 years to fight Cummings in December 1981 & while he did not win, he didn't lose either.

If Ali had beaten Berbick, you can probably bet that Ali -v- Frazier 4 would have happened in 1982!

Thank you, Trevor Berbick (RIP)!

[yancey]

Add to that...

Alfred Hitchock died in 1980.

I look back at that year as the end of many good things.

Yeah, my parents split up in 1980 too...

As for Ali v Holmes, I watched this about a year ago and I'm not sure if I remember Ali doing anything other than cover up. It seemed like Holmes was holding back and was just hoping the referee would step in sooner rather than later.

A year later, Ali faced Trevor Berbick and although he was still very poor and shot to bits, I felt he performed slightly better against Berbick than he did against Holmes.
The question is, had Ali beaten Berbick, what would he have done next...?

I have asked this question before too.

Smokin' Joe Frazier ironically came back after 5.5 years to fight Cummings in December 1981 & while he did not win, he didn't lose either.

If Ali had beaten Berbick, you can probably bet that Ali -v- Frazier 4 would have happened in 1982!

Thank you, Trevor Berbick (RIP)!

No way Ali would have ever given Joe Frazier a chance to square the series.

No matter, JF won the one that truly counted.

Just as there was No Way that George Foreman was ever going to get a rematch after that very strange fight in Zaire. ;;-)

[elmersalsa]

I didn't see nothing strange in Zaire, Yancey. I believe that the great George Foreman got whupped!...End of story.

[evrenb]

No way Ali would have ever given Joe Frazier a chance to square the series.

No matter, JF won the one that truly counted.

Just as there was No Way that George Foreman was ever going to get a rematch after that very strange fight in Zaire. ;;-)[/quote]

Yancey I enjoy your posts and I share your love for frazier. However you are perhaps the most blinkered, one tracked individual that has ever posted here!

[yancey]

No way Ali would have ever given Joe Frazier a chance to square the series.

No matter, JF won the one that truly counted.

Just as there was No Way that George Foreman was ever going to get a rematch after that very strange fight in Zaire. ;;-)

Yancey I enjoy your posts and I share your love for frazier. However you are perhaps the most blinkered, one tracked individual that has ever posted here![/quote]





Evrenb, if I'm such a "blinkered, one tracked individual", how come I generally have Ali as #1 all-time and JF around #6?

I just have firm beliefs and maybe I come across as closed-minded in my posts, but I think I'm actually pretty objective.

Heck, even Buzz and AA might think I'm okay if they met me.

[yancey]

I didn't see nothing strange in Zaire, Yancey. I believe that the great George Foreman got whupped!...End of story.

A Foreman rematch would have given Ali a huge payday.

Mega-huge $$$, especially if held in some place like the Astrodome.

If Ali was so confident in his ability to beat Foreman, how come he passed up such a easy, huge check?

My hound dog nose tells me something was not quite right about that fight in Zaire. Can't say what, but I immediately felt that way the very first time I saw the film of the fight. Foreman was sluggish and not the same guy I saw in earlier fights.

And as an aside, I've always felt that the notion of a 4:00 AM fight (or whatever time it was) was ridiculous. Yes, yes, I know, the bizarre time was because of closed-circuit viewing elsewhere, but if you can't hold an event at a normal time at the locale chosen, then you really have no business holding it there.

p.s. I do think Ali had an excellent style to defeat a slugger like Foreman, but that does not negate my belief that something about the Zaire fight seemed off.

[yancey]

Back to Ali-Holmes, I do think Dr. Ferdie Pacheco deserves mention for removing himself from the Ali entourage and voicing concerns about Ali's return to fight Holmes.

I wish others would have done the same.

But in fairness, maybe they felt that the fight was going to happen no matter what and they could best serve Ali by being there.

[davie]

On the plus side, in 1980, I was born.

Kind of evens things up right there

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Back to Ali-Holmes, I do think Dr. Ferdie Pacheco deserves mention for removing himself from the Ali entourage and voicing concerns about Ali's return to fight Holmes.

I wish others would have done the same.

But in fairness, maybe they felt that the fight was going to happen no matter what and they could best serve Ali by being there.

Dr Pacheco said all the people involved should still be locked up I seen a doco it shows Ali slurring his word's walking like a old man older then
his 38 year's in one part of the doco Ali and Dundee were standing in a boxing ring getting interviewed Ali had a white gown on he looked like he was drunk or drugged out of his head my 12 year old son watched it with me he asked me what was wrong with Ali he thought he had been drinking beer it was the greatest injustice I ever layed my eye's on talk about kicking some-one while their down

[revporl]

There's clips of him failing to hit a speed bag at all preparing for that fight. His coordination was completely shot. He speech sounded terrible and even seemed to stagger as he walked. That the authorities and those around him allowed it to happen was a travesty.

Everyone was complicit though, the press didn't question his health rigorously enough, we all tuned in. I think there was a generation of people who didn't want to believe what was in front of them, as though it would be admitting to age and infirmity in themselves.

As someone else mentioned, Ali's beating and Lennons killing seemed like final bell tolling for that 60's and 70's generation, alongside the election of Reagan and Thatcher.

[wvboxer]

I watched the Frazier / Cummings fight not long ago. Joe looked terrible against an opponent he would have wasted in 3 rounds years earlier.

[elmersalsa]

There's clips of him failing to hit a speed bag at all preparing for that fight. His coordination was completely shot. He speech sounded terrible and even seemed to stagger as he walked. That the authorities and those around him allowed it to happen was a travesty.

Everyone was complicit though, the press didn't question his health rigorously enough, we all tuned in. I think there was a generation of people who didn't want to believe what was in front of them, as though it would be admitting to age and infirmity in themselves.

As someone else mentioned, Ali's beating and Lennons killing seemed like final bell tolling for that 60's and 70's generation, alongside the election of Reagan and Thatcher.

The 80s was a CRUEL DECADE. Starting in 1980.

[Bricks]

Yeah, my parents split up in 1980 too...

As for Ali v Holmes, I watched this about a year ago and I'm not sure if I remember Ali doing anything other than cover up. It seemed like Holmes was holding back and was just hoping the referee would step in sooner rather than later.

A year later, Ali faced Trevor Berbick and although he was still very poor and shot to bits, I felt he performed slightly better against Berbick than he did against Holmes.
The question is, had Ali beaten Berbick, what would he have done next...?

I have asked this question before too.

Smokin' Joe Frazier ironically came back after 5.5 years to fight Cummings in December 1981 & while he did not win, he didn't lose either.

If Ali had beaten Berbick, you can probably bet that Ali -v- Frazier 4 would have happened in 1982!

Thank you, Trevor Berbick (RIP)!

No way Ali would have ever given Joe Frazier a chance to square the series.

No matter, JF won the one that truly counted.

Just as there was No Way that George Foreman was ever going to get a rematch after that very strange fight in Zaire. ;;-)

Have to agree here the 1971 fight was the one that counted.after foreman played slamdunk with joes breadbasket and hit him with all those shots in the kiester it was no longer a level playing deck

[keithmoonhangover]

On October 2, 1980, the boxing world saw one of the saddest chapters in the history of heavyweight boxing. It was a very sad night for boxing when the great and washed up 38 year old Muhammad Ali was attempting to become the heavyweight champion of the world for the 4th time. He challenged a prime 30 year old great champion named Larry Holmes for the Real Universally Recognized Heavyweight World Championship. Holmes was the WBC World Heavyweight Champion. He accepted the match because, one, the money was too much to refuse. And two, anybody would like to be recognized as the real heavyweight champion of the world. He had to fight his idol, even though he was in a loss-loss situation. Ali was not in his prime, was fat and overweight, and at 38, was coming out of retirement.

I still cannot believe that the WBC and the Nevada Boxing Commission, approved this fight to be made. Even though they KNEW the state of The Greatest, when he went to a clinic for two neurological tests of hand and reflexes coordination. It didn't looked good. Ali was also suffering from slurred speech and definitely, was looking too painful and slow in the gym workouts.

These GREEDY BASTARDS, (Nevada State Boxing Commission and the promoters of this fight), were all to blame. Why they didn't took and revoke Ali's boxing license? Why these greedy bastards approved this fight? They should have been incarcerated for attempted murder.

The fight was painful to watch. No magic tricks for Ali on this night. Father Time was knocking on his door way before this fight, for at least 5 years. This wasn't the turbulent 60's decade. Not even the early 70's. It was a fresh new decade with a great champion in his era. Even in this fight, The Easton Assassin didn't want to hurt The Greatest. I imagine that it was painful for Larry to beat up his idol. But, at the same time, would he make that money with anyone else? He got to eat. He got to put food in his table. He got to take care of his wife and kids. The OPPORTUNITY was knocking at his door for a big payday that cannot be refused. Would you turn that money down even if you knew that the former champion is no where of a shape to beat you? Most people wouldn't. So why Larry?

Holmes won every round. He was in control. He knew Ali couldn't hurt him nor even belong in the same ring with him, so he took it slow and carried him the best that he could. The Last Hurrah fight ended in the 10th, with Ali sitting on his stool. Angelo Dundee, Ali's long-time trainer and friend had enough. He told the referee, Richard Green, to stop this uneventful and pitiful contest that proved nothing for both fighters. And one of Ali's cornermen, Bundini Brown, wanted the fight to continue? This showed to me that this greedy bastard was not even Ali's true friend to begin with.

The fight was over in the 10th. A TKO win and sad night for Holmes. The year 1980 was not a great year for a lot of people. Two months later, on November 25th, another favorite fighter of mine, the great Roberto Duran, quits in the 8th round, in the middle of a fight, to the great Sugar Ray Leonard in the "No Mas" rematch in New Orleans. Thirteen days later, music great rocker, the ex-Beatle, John Lennon, was shot and killed in New York City. And end of an era.

You're wrong. Ali and Ali only was to blame for him being in the ring that night. The buck stops with him. It's his signature on the paper. No one put a gun to his head.

[BoxBuzz]

One of the hardest things to do is to convince people that we are not all children, and that we really are responsible for every moment of our lives.

I'm glad he fought Holmes, to officially end his claim to the HW crown, and allow Larry his due....His loss to Larry is no sadder than Ali beating and embarssing Liston in the first fight, and then scaring him to death in the second fight. Or torturing a Floyd Patterson who had a bad back, or giving George Foreman a lesson in character building. And it works both ways when you are the best of the best.

This is how it works, we come and we go, even the best of us. Marciano was a chump for not fighting until someone honorably rested the title from him.

Someone allowed him to earn it....she should have returned the favor. Keep going until you don't have it anymore....it is what it is......'till it ain't anymore.

[Tuan_Jim]

If Ali was so confident in his ability to beat Foreman, how come he passed up such a easy, huge check?

Ali was very keen in 76 to match Foreman with Norton in an eliminator in order to bump off Norton. He would happily fight Foreman again. As he told Mark Kram, more than once, they were all afraid of fighting Foreman but he, Ali, had his number.

Ali fought Frazier and Norton again and again, and yet he was scared to fight the guy he KOd? It doesn't follow.

To claim Ali was scared of fighting Foreman is to expose yourself as either ignorant to the facts or hopelessly biased. I'm sure everyone realises yancey is some sort of character creation. No one spends their life this singularly obsessed by Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier.