Who are boxings all time best uncrowned champs?
Who are boxings all time best uncrowned champs?
Here is one who is not heard about very often,Billy Graham. There are many more. Lets hear a few.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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Re: Who are boxings all time best uncrowned champs?
expug wrote:Here is one who is not heard about very often,Billy Graham. There are many more. Lets hear a few.
hes a very underated welterweight. glad to see him get props!
here are some others
Jack Blackburn
dave holly
Tiger Jack Fox
peter jackson
joe jeanette
sam mcvey
sam langford
charley burley
lloyd marshall
holman williams
jimmy bivins
harry wills
jerry quarry
elmer ray
eddie cotton- hes an underated light-H, he was robbed vs torres
harry kid mathews
cocoa kid
Packy McFarland. Just 1 loss in his 109 fight career, retired unbeaten over more than 11 years and 102 fights. Lost his 7th pro fight and that was it.
Also Les Darcy, only his death from pneumonia at age 21 kept him from a world title, and perhaps becoming the greatest Middleweight of all time. 46-4 record with 2 losses by DQ and the 2 by decision, all of 4 of which were avenged.
Also Les Darcy, only his death from pneumonia at age 21 kept him from a world title, and perhaps becoming the greatest Middleweight of all time. 46-4 record with 2 losses by DQ and the 2 by decision, all of 4 of which were avenged.
Re: Who are boxings all time best uncrowned champs?
The only one im not familiar with is Dave Holly. Give me a little info please.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:expug wrote:Here is one who is not heard about very often,Billy Graham. There are many more. Lets hear a few.
hes a very underated welterweight. glad to see him get props!
here are some others
Jack Blackburn
dave holly
Tiger Jack Fox
peter jackson
joe jeanette
sam mcvey
sam langford
charley burley
lloyd marshall
holman williams
jimmy bivins
harry wills
jerry quarry
elmer ray
eddie cotton- hes an underated light-H, he was robbed vs torres
harry kid mathews
cocoa kid
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
http://members.aol.com/ksmith9116/daveho_1.jpg
heres chizzled lightweight david holly
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=011016
first of all to tell you how good he is.........
he beat joe gans, sam langford, jack blackburn!
from what I have read, he was a defensive genuis. He also seemed to be a very physically strong and agrresive fighter and if u look at his build u can tell why. In the blackburn fights, holly fought very physical and aggresive fights. Holly is a great all time lightweight and was unlucky to be around at the time of possibly the greatest lightweight of all time joe gans. I wish there was film of him. Hollys weight often went up and down and he seemed to be more of a junior welterweight.
- a good guy to ask about dave holly is kevin smith
heres some newspaper articles
Joe Gans is Outclassed!
Dave Holly Whips Champion Gans for The Third Time.
Philadelphia, Pa, June 27, 1904------For the third time within six months Dave Holly, a local negro lightweight, demonstrated his superiority over Joe Gans, the champion, tonight in a six round bout at the national athletic club. Gans was outclassed from the start and hugged continuously to avoid punishment.
In the third round when it looked as though Gans would go down under Holly's punches, Al Hereford, Gan's manager, attempted to climb into the ring to lose in that manner preferably to a knockout, but he was restrained by three policemen.
Milwaukee Free Press---June 28, 1904
Holly Wins From Langford
Sam Langford ran against a tartar at the Cambridge(Mass) AC, April 11 in the person of Dave Holly, of Philadelphia, who administered a sound beating to him in the ten rounds they boxed. Holly's ability to cover up and avoid punishment and his quick recovery when in close quarters was the cause of Langford's downfall. Sam started in his usual snappy style, and his lightning left jab and right cross worked well for the first couple of minutes. But after that, Holly changed his style and his peculiar crouch and guard completely bewildered Langford.
The last round was a hurricane affair, with Holly doing the forcing and Langford holding on at everyopportunity, but even as Sam hung on, Holly slammed away, and near the close of the round drove Langford to the ropes with a hard right swing the jaw.
Police Gazette---April 30, 1904
heres chizzled lightweight david holly
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=011016
first of all to tell you how good he is.........
he beat joe gans, sam langford, jack blackburn!
from what I have read, he was a defensive genuis. He also seemed to be a very physically strong and agrresive fighter and if u look at his build u can tell why. In the blackburn fights, holly fought very physical and aggresive fights. Holly is a great all time lightweight and was unlucky to be around at the time of possibly the greatest lightweight of all time joe gans. I wish there was film of him. Hollys weight often went up and down and he seemed to be more of a junior welterweight.
- a good guy to ask about dave holly is kevin smith
heres some newspaper articles
Joe Gans is Outclassed!
Dave Holly Whips Champion Gans for The Third Time.
Philadelphia, Pa, June 27, 1904------For the third time within six months Dave Holly, a local negro lightweight, demonstrated his superiority over Joe Gans, the champion, tonight in a six round bout at the national athletic club. Gans was outclassed from the start and hugged continuously to avoid punishment.
In the third round when it looked as though Gans would go down under Holly's punches, Al Hereford, Gan's manager, attempted to climb into the ring to lose in that manner preferably to a knockout, but he was restrained by three policemen.
Milwaukee Free Press---June 28, 1904
Holly Wins From Langford
Sam Langford ran against a tartar at the Cambridge(Mass) AC, April 11 in the person of Dave Holly, of Philadelphia, who administered a sound beating to him in the ten rounds they boxed. Holly's ability to cover up and avoid punishment and his quick recovery when in close quarters was the cause of Langford's downfall. Sam started in his usual snappy style, and his lightning left jab and right cross worked well for the first couple of minutes. But after that, Holly changed his style and his peculiar crouch and guard completely bewildered Langford.
The last round was a hurricane affair, with Holly doing the forcing and Langford holding on at everyopportunity, but even as Sam hung on, Holly slammed away, and near the close of the round drove Langford to the ropes with a hard right swing the jaw.
Police Gazette---April 30, 1904
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RowanSmith
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 74
- Joined: 17 Sep 2003, 16:39
Thanks alot for that info BB.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:http://members.aol.com/ksmith9116/daveho_1.jpg
heres chizzled lightweight david holly
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=011016
first of all to tell you how good he is.........
he beat joe gans, sam langford, jack blackburn!
from what I have read, he was a defensive genuis. He also seemed to be a very physically strong and agrresive fighter and if u look at his build u can tell why. In the blackburn fights, holly fought very physical and aggresive fights. Holly is a great all time lightweight and was unlucky to be around at the time of possibly the greatest lightweight of all time joe gans. I wish there was film of him. Hollys weight often went up and down and he seemed to be more of a junior welterweight.
- a good guy to ask about dave holly is kevin smith
heres some newspaper articles
Joe Gans is Outclassed!
Dave Holly Whips Champion Gans for The Third Time.
Philadelphia, Pa, June 27, 1904------For the third time within six months Dave Holly, a local negro lightweight, demonstrated his superiority over Joe Gans, the champion, tonight in a six round bout at the national athletic club. Gans was outclassed from the start and hugged continuously to avoid punishment.
In the third round when it looked as though Gans would go down under Holly's punches, Al Hereford, Gan's manager, attempted to climb into the ring to lose in that manner preferably to a knockout, but he was restrained by three policemen.
Milwaukee Free Press---June 28, 1904
Holly Wins From Langford
Sam Langford ran against a tartar at the Cambridge(Mass) AC, April 11 in the person of Dave Holly, of Philadelphia, who administered a sound beating to him in the ten rounds they boxed. Holly's ability to cover up and avoid punishment and his quick recovery when in close quarters was the cause of Langford's downfall. Sam started in his usual snappy style, and his lightning left jab and right cross worked well for the first couple of minutes. But after that, Holly changed his style and his peculiar crouch and guard completely bewildered Langford.
The last round was a hurricane affair, with Holly doing the forcing and Langford holding on at everyopportunity, but even as Sam hung on, Holly slammed away, and near the close of the round drove Langford to the ropes with a hard right swing the jaw.
Police Gazette---April 30, 1904
re
>>>They all fought in eras with strong heavyweight champions. Wills has a lot of fans, but virtually no one thought he could have beaten Dempsey.<<<
Really? I've heard several people who not only thought that Wills would give Dempsey not only the fight of his life, but also very easily could have beaten him. I don't think so, but many other did, but it most certainly would not be a walk in the park and I would have about guaranteed that had Tommy Burns ever fought Jennette, or McVey, then either one have been crowned new heavyweight champions and if either would have been given a chance with Jess Willard then it is very probable that they would have won against him as well. Johnson was the only champion that would have been an almost lock, but even he was not a lock against either. Quarry is a different story...he was a pretty good fighter, but nothing special...championship caliber...very doubtful!
Really? I've heard several people who not only thought that Wills would give Dempsey not only the fight of his life, but also very easily could have beaten him. I don't think so, but many other did, but it most certainly would not be a walk in the park and I would have about guaranteed that had Tommy Burns ever fought Jennette, or McVey, then either one have been crowned new heavyweight champions and if either would have been given a chance with Jess Willard then it is very probable that they would have won against him as well. Johnson was the only champion that would have been an almost lock, but even he was not a lock against either. Quarry is a different story...he was a pretty good fighter, but nothing special...championship caliber...very doubtful!
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
blackburn would have got a shot vs joe gans but the crazy nut blackburn commited manslaughter and went to prison. too bad, a title fight between two all time great lightweights in there prime gans vs blackburn would have been one helluva fight! gans beat blackburn earlier in blackburns career when he still was a little green. but i would always favor gans over blackburn slightly. gans was special. i cant see anyone but possibly duran beating joe gans.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
Decagon wrote:Oh sure, he was no Jim Corbett or anything. But if he was so great, how come Dave Holly had his way with him - some say three times? Gans wasn't unbeatable in his own era, so it's silly to suggest that he'd be unbeatable in any era.
holly is an all time great lightweight! holly beat sam langford and jack blackburn for crying out loud!
- still, joe gans got the better of holly in the series they fought. so I dont know what u are impyling when u say holly had his way with him because gans got the better of holly
gans beat two all time great lightweights in jack blackburn and david holly, as well as many other good to great fighters!
i know ur not big on old timers decagon but watch gans on film, he has a very modern style
re
Milwaukee Press...all the bouts were in Philadelphia, which is what my records are based on...newspapers reports from Philly...not half way around the country!
But please answer the question...what do you actually know about Dave Holly?
But please answer the question...what do you actually know about Dave Holly?