World Championships 2015

[mike222]

52
Y Veitia CUB 3-0 H Jianguan CHN
E Mamishadze AZE TKO1 M Flissi MAR
60
L Alvarez CUB 3-0 E Abdurakhimov UZB
A Selimov AZE 3-0 R Conceicao BRA
69
D Eleusinov KAZ 3-0 P Bagirov AZE
M Rabi MAR 3-0 L Wei CHN
81
J Ward IRE 3-0 E Rasulov UZB
J C D Cruz CUB 3-0 P Silyagin RUS
+91
I Dychko KAZ 2-1 B Zhololov UZB
T Yoka FRA 3-0 J Joyce ENG
Finals and Third place bouts on Wednesday and Thursday

[Mighty Atom]

Some bad decisions today. Some of the rounds scored i could not beleave.

Everybody complained about computer scoring but this is what happens when you get rid of it.
Pro-style scoring is a complete disaster when applied to amateurs.

As long as you have incompetent R/J's, you will have bad decisions no matter what scoring system you use. At least with this system, it's back to boxing and not the punch and hold, punch and wrestle, punch and run style that happened with computer scoring. That was the worse thing to ever happen to amateur boxing. I thought AIBA was doing a decent job of ridding the bad officials but it seems they are coming back.

Disagree a little. The corrupt and useless officials never went away, it's just that computer scoring meant that they had a lot less effect on results.
When you're making 50-60 decisions per round on what is a score you get found out pretty easily if you try to pull a fast one. You've seen judges get thrown out over the last decade because of this.
Problem with the system now is the judge only make 9 decisions between them and if as few as 2 of those are outrageously wrong you get absolutely stinkers of results.
Through history 10 point system has never worked for 3 round fights. Even the honest judges scored fights by reputation not what goes on in the ring.
Mark my words, the Rio Olympics is going to be the biggest disaster amateur boxing have ever seen.
I get your point about the punch and run styles but what good are slightly better fights when the sport is going to be laughed at because of the judging?

[mike222]

Finals
49 Y Argilagos CUB 3-0 V Egorov RUS
56 M Conlan IRE 3-0 M Akhmadaliyev UZB
64 V Dunaytsev RUS 2-1 F Gaibnazarov UZB
75 A Lopez CUB 3-0 B Melikuziyev UZB
91 E Tishcenko RUS 3-0 E Savon CUB
Argilagos and Conlan both floored in the third round but got up to win
Savon looked a tad unlucky
Third Place
56
D Asanov BLR 3-0 S Thapa IND
75
H Abdin EGY 3-0 M O Reilly IRE
Asanov and Abdin qualify for Olympics

[donnellon]

Did anyone watch the O'Reilly fight?
Was he robbed blind or am I just blind, biased and stupid?

[crusader]

People moaning about decisions in the amateurs? What else is new!

[locoxelbox]

Did anyone watch the O'Reilly fight?
Was he robbed blind or am I just blind, biased and stupid?

I was sensing at the end he might not get the decision. The egyptian connected with some welltimed punches. How about the Conlan fight? THAT was a robbery.

[donnellon]

Knew O'Reilly wouldn't get it as I could see the round by round scoring, the Egyptian landed the cleaner shots but he hardly averaged two a round. Re-watch the first round and tell me how he won it? Conlon was close, much closer than the official cards-how did he get the third round? Still felt his variety edged it for him.

[JMac]

People moaning about decisions in the amateurs? What else is new!

Like it never happens in the pros...

[moorser]

O'Reilly was robbed, if you think the Egyption won your watching the wrong sport, he landed at best 3 scoring shots in the first round from a total of about 10 thrown, and all judges gave him the round, Stinks of corruption, not even showing the crowd the scores first time in the championships because of the large Irish support.

Conlan fight was close but no robbery come on man, he won the first 2 rounds well and then got caught with a big shot which he recovered well from.

[crusader]

People moaning about decisions in the amateurs? What else is new!

Like it never happens in the pros...

Of course it happens plenty in the pros and I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise. However, I find it striking that so many discussions of major amateur tournaments (national and international) turn into complaint-fests; is this mainly a product of the sheer volume of bouts? Are there systemic problems with the judging? Are many of the complaints unjustified and the products of bias? I think it's probably some of each.

[crusader]

Now someone in the Current Scene is suggesting that Dychko was robbed against Yoka....anyone see the bout?

[donnellon]

One mitigating factor in the judging is that if you have a clash of styles eg a slippery counter-puncher versus an all-out two handed aggressive fighter, it often takes more than three rounds for either to gain supremacy. Therefore judges go for what they like.

[mike222]

Finals
52 E Mamishadze AZE 3-0 Y Veitia CUB
60 L Alvarez CUB TKOINJCUT2 A Selimov AZE
69 M Rabi MAR 3-0 D Eleusinov KAZ
81J L D Cruz CUB 3-0 J Ward IRE
91 T Yoka FRA 3-0 I Dychko KAZ
Third Place
60 E Abdurakhimov UZB 3-0 R Conceicao BRA
69 L Wei CHN W/O P Bagirov AZE
Alvarez seemed to win the first round but they gave it to Selimov then in the second Selimov was cut badly.Dychko seemed to do more than Yoka whilst Cruz also sustained a cut late in the third but held on.
Eleusinov looked very unsure against Rabi but the Moroccan has improved a lot in recent months probably because of his WSB stint.
Abdurakhimov could not win earlier in the year but has also improved beyond recognition.

[JMac]

One mitigating factor in the judging is that if you have a clash of styles eg a slippery counter-puncher versus an all-out two handed aggressive fighter, it often takes more than three rounds for either to gain supremacy. Therefore judges go for what they like.

True.....sometimes in a close 3 round fight, it's hard to tell who won but you're mad when the boxer you wanted doesn't win. In pro fights that are 6 rds or longer usually it is easier to see who is dominate and styles make fights and some judges prefer certain styles. With the current 10 pt scoring for amateurs, in my opinion of all of the fights I have watched, the boxer who is being more aggressive throwing more punches and keeping off the ropes is winning the bouts. This scoring is so different from the computer scoring and has changed the boxing style that is needed to win big time.

[Karlof]

Now someone in the Current Scene is suggesting that Dychko was robbed against Yoka....anyone see the bout?

I had Dychko winning 2-1, but it was a close fight so no robbery IMO. Not like Savons "loss" to Tischenko in the heavyweight final.

[pound per pound]

Now someone in the Current Scene is suggesting that Dychko was robbed against Yoka....anyone see the bout?

Better stated, Yoka was fortunate to win over Hrgovic and Dychko.

[donnellon]

But most observers believe that O’Reilly clearly won the fight for an Olympic berth and their views are backed up by an experienced Irish Amateur Boxing Association bout analyst.

His forensic analysis of the bout found that O’Reilly hit the target with 60pc more punches than his opponent.

O’Reilly connected with 36 punches against 22 for Abdin and landed more punches in each of the three rounds.

Moreover, O’Reilly threw 100pc more punches in the first round, twice as many. The three judges went with Abdin 29-28 across the board after three, three minute rounds.

The top three middleweights in Doha qualify for Rio 2016 and Wednesday’s O’Reilly versus Abdin bout was a third place box-off between the losing semi-finalists.

Wednesday’s result saw O’Reilly finish in 4th position, although if Cuba’s Arlen Lopez, who won gold, takes his qualification from the World Series of Boxing earlier this year, O’Reilly will finish in the top three and qualify for Rio.

The deadline for the registration for the first draft of boxers for Rio 2016 is December 4 and if Lopez takes the Doha place, O’Reilly, who won bronze in Doha, is out and will have to qualify in Europe early next year.

The Portlaise BC middleweight is the current European Games champion.

Breakdown of O’Reilly versus Abdim Box-off for a place at the Olympic Games at World Elite Championships in Doha, Qatar.

IRL landed 36 punches v 22 by EGY. IRL landed more punches in each of the 3 rounds. IRL landed 60pc more punches than EGY
IRL threw 87 punches v 44 from EGY in first round. So outscored the EGY but also with a higher work rate, IRL throw 100% more punches in the first round, twice as many as Abhim.

[crusader]

Are amateur bouts still scored strictly by who landed more punches? I guess the thing with pro-style judging is that it allows judges to make an argument for a clearly out-landed boxer based on vague things like clean punching (notice the comment about the Egyptian's well-timed counters) and ring generalship. Of course if the boxer they favor then competes in another bout and seems to outland an opponent who connected with cleaner blows, the judge can just appeal to punches landed this time.

Judges can turn in horrible scores when punches landed is the only consideration, but I think pro-style scoring gives them a stronger basis to defend their cards.

[expe]

Are amateur bouts still scored strictly by who landed more punches? I guess the thing with pro-style judging is that it allows judges to make an argument for a clearly out-landed boxer based on vague things like clean punching (notice the comment about the Egyptian's well-timed counters) and ring generalship. Of course if the boxer they favor then competes in another bout and seems to outland an opponent who connected with cleaner blows, the judge can just appeal to punches landed this time.

Judges can turn in horrible scores when punches landed is the only consideration, but I think pro-style scoring gives them a stronger basis to defend their cards.

Those punch stats had the Egyptian throwing 4 punches in the first round, all three judges scored it to him...

[crusader]

Are amateur bouts still scored strictly by who landed more punches? I guess the thing with pro-style judging is that it allows judges to make an argument for a clearly out-landed boxer based on vague things like clean punching (notice the comment about the Egyptian's well-timed counters) and ring generalship. Of course if the boxer they favor then competes in another bout and seems to outland an opponent who connected with cleaner blows, the judge can just appeal to punches landed this time.

Judges can turn in horrible scores when punches landed is the only consideration, but I think pro-style scoring gives them a stronger basis to defend their cards.

Those punch stats had the Egyptian throwing 4 punches in the first round, all three judges scored it to him...

You mean 44?

My point stands either way.

[expe]

Are amateur bouts still scored strictly by who landed more punches? I guess the thing with pro-style judging is that it allows judges to make an argument for a clearly out-landed boxer based on vague things like clean punching (notice the comment about the Egyptian's well-timed counters) and ring generalship. Of course if the boxer they favor then competes in another bout and seems to outland an opponent who connected with cleaner blows, the judge can just appeal to punches landed this time.

Judges can turn in horrible scores when punches landed is the only consideration, but I think pro-style scoring gives them a stronger basis to defend their cards.

Those punch stats had the Egyptian throwing 4 punches in the first round, all three judges scored it to him...

You mean 44?

My point stands either way.

No, four.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-s ... 14461.html

[crusader]

No, four.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-s ... 14461.html

Where are you getting that from? The article says:

IRL threw 87 punches v 44 from EGY in first round. So outscored the EGY but also with a higher work rate, IRL throw 100% more punches in the first round, twice as many

18 seconds went by before the EGY threw the first punch and only threw 4 in total in the first 1min of the first round

Regardless of the supposed findings produced by the "forensic analysis", it's clear that the Egyptian threw far more than 4 punches in the first round and anyone who suggests otherwise is having a laugh or hasn't watched the bout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On0OmemEvUY

[donnellon]

Judge for yourselves;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSM7TXqPFUk
Starts about 28.00