What if Frazier's comeback bouts with Knoetze/Coetzee had taken place in 1978?

[sweetviolenturge]

Remember when "Smokin'" Joe was all set to return to the ring by meeting one of those then-up & coming young contenders from South Africa?
If I recall correctly, the original choice of opponent was Kallie Knoetze. Then, at some point the then-unbeaten Coetzee ( who had a W10 over his countryman ) was tapped & the bought was scheduled for sometime in the spring of '78 for either CBS's Sports Spectacular or NBC's Sportsworld. ( I actually still have the issue of TV Guide with the fight listed for a Saturday afternoon broadcast packed up around here in my apartment somewhere ).
I recall having been REALLY excited about this bout because, as a 15 year old kid at the time who had only been a boxing fan for less than two years & had never seen Frazier fight other than clips of his Ali & Foreman fights. So, I was thrilled to witness his comeback.
Unfortunately, Hep C reared it's ugly head & put the breaks on Joe's comeback plans ( that is until his sad D10 vs Jumbo Cummings 3 years later ).
It would have been very interesting to see what Frazier would have had left at that point & matched up with a bigger dangerous guy like Coetzee. Who, at the time, was known as more of a straight up, Euro-style boxer. As his "bionic" right hand didn't reveal itself until a year later when he bounced poor ol' "Neon" Leon off the canvas several times in a single round in Monte Carlo.

I hate to say it, but I think Frazier & co. were expecting a bit of a soft touch vs Coetzee & that they may have been in for a similar shock to what occurred with Spinks.
Anyone else have any thoughts?

[yancey]

My thought is that Frazier should have retired after Manila. (Ali also should have retired) Actually, Joe should have retired immediately after the FOTC.
He lost his mental edge after conquering Ali and should have gone on to other things. He tried with his music, but that didn't work out.

Any Frazier fights after Manila carry no interest to me. I have only seen Frazier-Foreman II only one time.....that wasn't the real Joe!

Frazier probably loses to a guy like Coetzee in 1978, but so what? He runs Coetzee out the building in his prime.

[Caractacus]

Kallie Knoetze came over here to the USA before Gerrie Coetzee.
As I recall the Frazier fight with Knoetze in Las Vegas was cancelled
because it was found out Joe Frazier had hepatitis.

[Bodyshot3]

Might have been a bit early for Coetzee if Joe was halfway sorted...and I think the venue/location might have been a factor.

Gerrie travelled pretty well sometimes but a fight against Frazier at somewhere like the MSG would have been really hard.

Conversely, fighting at one of the big South African gaming resorts on 'The Rand' would have been a huge test for Joe. I am pretty sure that some of those venues are at altitude and your fitness/preparation has to be spot on. More than a few visiting fighters have found it a problem.

Chances are that Joe would have refused the South African option for the obvious political reasons; but other black American heavyweights did because the money was very good indeed.

[Caractacus]

yeah,but Joe Frazier(as manager)had sent Duane Bobick to fight Knoetze in South Africa earlier.

[Bodyshot3]

yeah,but Joe Frazier(as manager)had sent Duane Bobick to fight Knoetze in South Africa earlier.

Interesting point! So perhaps Joe might have taken the massive Kerzner pay cheque and fought in SA afterall?
I am guessing it would have been easier for Duane rather than Joe but money always talks with boxing...

.......and those SA super casino/resorts were very powerful for a while and got some big fights.

[SenorPipino]

Frazier probably would have struggled to an uneventful win over Knoetze. He wasn't that good.

And while Coetzee was no all-time great, he might have been a little too fluid and powerful for a well-past-his-prime Frazier.

Coetzee would be cautious early but after he learned that he had nothing to fear from a mid-30s Smokin' Joe, he would gradually wear him down and take him out before the 10th round.

[hhaehre]

Frazier probably would have struggled to an uneventful win over Knoetze. He wasn't that good.

And while Coetzee was no all-time great, he might have been a little too fluid and powerful for a well-past-his-prime Frazier.

Coetzee would be cautious early but after he learned that he had nothing to fear from a mid-30s Smokin' Joe, he would gradually wear him down and take him out before the 10th round.

Maybe but Coetzee had stamina issues himself. He sometimes tensed up in big fights and I can see him dropping a decision if Frazier had anything left at all. Knoetze didn't move well and didn't have the punch required even against a washed up Frazier. I see Frazier out-slugging him in a messy and ugly fight. Good thing these fight never took place.

[Caractacus]

Knoetzee "didnt have the punch"?
surely you jest sir with you'r comment?

[hhaehre]

Knoetzee "didnt have the punch"?
surely you jest sir with you'r comment?

He did have the punch to stop Frazier you say?

[Nile4000]

Coetzee would have stopped Joe late in an upset. Knoetze would have lost a close decision.

[Tony1244]

Knoetzee was better than Jumbo Cummings. Knoetzee late round stoppage. Coetzee stops Joe early. This is a post 1976 Frazier we're talking about. Frazier stops both of them in his prime.

[Kalan]

Frazier would get his fat ass kicked in. But he was smart enough not to fight those guys. Joe was done but he needed money. That was NOT a serious or healthy man who fought Jumbo Cummings. That was a walking disaster in serious need of money. A shame Boxing treats it's icons this way and allows this.

[Tony1244]

Frazier would get his fat ass kicked in. But he was smart enough not to fight those guys. Joe was done but he needed money. That was NOT a serious or healthy man who fought Jumbo Cummings. That was a walking disaster in serious need of money. A shame Boxing treats it's icons this way and allows this.

Boxers, like all people, need to take some responsibility themselves. If your priorities are always fast cars and bling instead of stocks and bonds 101, you're probably not going to hold onto your money.

[Bodyshot3]

Any fight at altitude in South Africa would have been a stern test for Joe.......Jo'burg, Pretoria and the various casino venues in that region of South Africa are all pretty high up and fighters who do not come out early enough have sometimes been badly caught out.

Lewis may not have taken Rahman as seriously as he should, but when they met in SA there was also a feeling that Rahman had acclimatised himself to the thinner air and Lewis had left it too late.

Visting rugby teams way-back-when used to find games on the 'High Veldt' a nightmare in the past as well; it's definitely a factor and a fight with Coetzee and Knoetze would have surely been destined for a big venue there rather than sea-level Cape Town.

If it was a home fight high-up in the Veldt, his hands were good and he landed a bomb early.....maybe, just maybe Coetzee. Not sure sure about Knoetze who was much more of a brawler and left himself open and lacked Gerrie's ringcraft.