Saul Alvarez vs Gennady Golovkin

[Cent0089]

What is your opinion of this possible fight in 2016 (if Canelo can go past Miguel Cotto) ?

[stevedoc]

i see canelo being stopped on his feet around about the 9th

[Like a Boss]

At 155 pounds like Canelo is demanding? Or 160 pounds?

[actjac]

A superior matchup. . . Much greater than the aging con men of Pacquiao and Mayweather.

The fight when it occurs should be the Middleweight limit of 160 lbs.. . . Can you imagine Sugar Ray Leonard insisting that Martin Hagler drop to 155 lbs?

[caldo2025]

Complete and utter mismatch. GGG would make really quick work out of Alvarez. It wouldn't even be close.

The only boxer around the 160 lb limit that could give GGG some work I think is Lara. Lara has the length and the wheels to be on his horse for 12 rounds and possibly avoid punishment but I still think that he gets knocked out in dramatic fashion by GGG.

No one can tough this guy right now. I think that everyone is waiting around for his age to show. 33 years old so he's probably got 4 or 5 years left. Sad thought.

[PredatorHayds]

I can see GGG stopping him late on.

He looks unbeatable at middleweight.

[Gazmac81]

I didn't read this properly I thought it was for the Alvarez v cotto fight ( which I voted for ko as I think Alvarez will go through him)

on the correct topic I reckon Golovkin points win vs Alvarez

[jujigatame]

The Canelo asking for another 155 pound catchweight thing is totally baffling to me. For Cotto, it makes sense because he's tiny for the MW division and he wants guys to drain down to something close to 154 while still calling himself the MW champ. Canelo is not any smaller than GGG, I don't understand why he'd care what weight the fight is contested at. Maybe he thinks GGG is not used to cutting the weight so it would affect him more? Either way it's dumb and I hope it's just idle talk.

[jezzamundo]

Even though Canelo and GGG weigh about the same on fight night, a catchweight would definitely favour Canelo, who is younger and more used to draining and rehydrating 15+ pounds. At 160lb I like GGG to win by stoppage. At 155lb I'd still favour GGG but with a lot less certainty. GGG doesn't have to accept anything sub 160lb for the fight, but I think he should, to make sure it happens because he needs a big name on his resume. I hate catchweights, but if it's what's necessary to get good opponents in the ring, so be it. That said, I don't think he should accept anything lower than 157lb for either Cotto or Canelo.

[Tarkus]

I am not entirely sure GGG stops Canelo. Canelo is a strong man, a big puncher and a good technical boxer. This means it wont be a one sided beating like in the case of Lemieux or Murray and they lasted some rounds. GGG by points, maybe a knockdown or two.

[koolkc107]

At 160 lbs, Golovkin by KO.

At 155 lbs, Canelo by stoppage.

[Baby Face Finster]

At 160 lbs, Golovkin by KO.

At 155 lbs, Canelo by stoppage.

And this is why you are the board idiot!

[brilo33]

saul couldn't take his power i think. but it would be the best fighter ggg would of faced so who knows,would not count saul out

[koolkc107]

At 160 lbs, Golovkin by KO.

At 155 lbs, Canelo by stoppage.

And this is why you are the board idiot!

How many times must I tell folks like yourself that being called less than smart
by folks who are clearly not at all intelligent themselves is not an insult...it's confirmation of the exact opposite.

Let me explain it for you since you seem to be clueless.

Less than a year ago, we had Loeffler saying this:

Loeffler said that Golovkin would have no problem fighting at a catchweight against Alvarez, who fought Lara in a 155-pound bout.
“We’ve always said that if there is a compelling fight, Gennady would move up or down, we’ve talked about moving up to 168 for Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. because that would be a pay-per-view fight and if it’s Canelo, then I’m sure that we could work out a catchweight if he wanted to work out a catchweight and if it’s in his best interest. So that would certainly be a pay-per-view fight,” said Loeffler.

“There wouldn’t be any issues for us to come down to fight Canelo. There would still be a title on the line for Gennady because he would be fighting under 160, so he would be able to defend the titles at 156 or whatever you have the weight be. But Gennady would be willing to come down in weight to fight Canelo. I wouldn’t say it would be at 154 but certainly, given that Canelo fought his last fight at 155, then you could say that Gennady would certainly be willing to come down in weight to make the Canelo fight.”


http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/3673 ... lo-alvarez

Obviously Nov. 28th of last year it was all about getting the money fight no matter what. But look what he is saying now:

"We have a lot of respect for Canelo," Loeffler said. "I think we have to wait for November 21, see how it plays out."

He said he thinks fans can accept a catch-weight if guys from obviously two different classes are meeting in the middle. But when fighting for the "middleweight" title, yes, call us all crazy, but let's have the weight limit be a regulation 160 pounds. (This is where having a league office, getting all on the same page, cutting down on leverage plays by A siders, would be especially helpful.)

But, Loeffler pointed out, Canelo stepped into this situation, where WBC 160 champ Cotto is olbligated to fight Gennady next, so..."And hey, if Canelo doesn't win, there's no reason to discuss the weight issue. Also, if it's a tremendous fight, which I can see it being, they might do a rematch," said Loeffler, figuring that wouldn't be for the WBC title.

http://www.thesweetscience.tv/news/arti ... -statement

A clear change in position and the question is, why?

Why go from "we will meet him at 155, no problem" to "maybe we will meet in the middle unless it is for the belt, which has to be at 160" in less than a year?

Isn't it still the same money fight it was a year ago?
And with Golovkin's pathetic PPV showing, what has changed as far as A-side?

The answers are yes and not very much.

That leaves one major variable in play, FinsterBaby.

Weight.

HE CAN'T DO 155.

At least not anymore if it was ever possible.

Or he knows he can't do it and still be strong enough to beat Canelo.

But, they just might try it anyway if there is a sack of cash to be made.

And IMO, it would be a mistake...a big one.

And costly. Hope this helps you understand my take a little better.

[Cent0089]

interresting how almost no one believing in Canelo

[Deadendgeneration]

At 160 lbs, Golovkin by KO.

At 155 lbs, Canelo by stoppage.

And this is why you are the board idiot!

How many times must I tell folks like yourself that being called less than smart
by folks who are clearly not at all intelligent themselves is not an insult...it's confirmation of the exact opposite.

Let me explain it for you since you seem to be clueless.

Less than a year ago, we had Loeffler saying this:

Loeffler said that Golovkin would have no problem fighting at a catchweight against Alvarez, who fought Lara in a 155-pound bout.
“We’ve always said that if there is a compelling fight, Gennady would move up or down, we’ve talked about moving up to 168 for Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. because that would be a pay-per-view fight and if it’s Canelo, then I’m sure that we could work out a catchweight if he wanted to work out a catchweight and if it’s in his best interest. So that would certainly be a pay-per-view fight,” said Loeffler.

“There wouldn’t be any issues for us to come down to fight Canelo. There would still be a title on the line for Gennady because he would be fighting under 160, so he would be able to defend the titles at 156 or whatever you have the weight be. But Gennady would be willing to come down in weight to fight Canelo. I wouldn’t say it would be at 154 but certainly, given that Canelo fought his last fight at 155, then you could say that Gennady would certainly be willing to come down in weight to make the Canelo fight.”


http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/3673 ... lo-alvarez

Obviously Nov. 28th of last year it was all about getting the money fight no matter what. But look what he is saying now:

"We have a lot of respect for Canelo," Loeffler said. "I think we have to wait for November 21, see how it plays out."

He said he thinks fans can accept a catch-weight if guys from obviously two different classes are meeting in the middle. But when fighting for the "middleweight" title, yes, call us all crazy, but let's have the weight limit be a regulation 160 pounds. (This is where having a league office, getting all on the same page, cutting down on leverage plays by A siders, would be especially helpful.)

But, Loeffler pointed out, Canelo stepped into this situation, where WBC 160 champ Cotto is olbligated to fight Gennady next, so..."And hey, if Canelo doesn't win, there's no reason to discuss the weight issue. Also, if it's a tremendous fight, which I can see it being, they might do a rematch," said Loeffler, figuring that wouldn't be for the WBC title.

http://www.thesweetscience.tv/news/arti ... -statement

A clear change in position and the question is, why?

Why go from "we will meet him at 155, no problem" to "maybe we will meet in the middle unless it is for the belt, which has to be at 160" in less than a year?

Isn't it still the same money fight it was a year ago?
And with Golovkin's pathetic PPV showing, what has changed as far as A-side?

The answers are yes and not very much.

That leaves one major variable in play, FinsterBaby.

Weight.

HE CAN'T DO 155.

At least not anymore if it was ever possible.

Or he knows he can't do it and still be strong enough to beat Canelo.

But, they just might try it anyway if there is a sack of cash to be made.

And IMO, it would be a mistake...a big one.

And costly. Hope this helps you understand my take a little better.

Or last year a fight with GGG would have been optional for Canelo so Loeffler felt they needed to offer something up to entice Canelo. Now if Canelo beats Cotto he "has to" fight GGG. I still think he'll find a way to worm his way out of it, I don't see the WBC stripping a Mexican champion.

All that being said, I think the fight offers little danger to GGG at 160 but we don't know how hard it would be for him to make 155. He isn't a particularly big middleweight but he isn't used to cutting so much so who knows.

[koolkc107]

But that's the point, Deadgen.

No matter what the sanctioning bodies try to dictate, there's no "has to" when it comes to Canelo and Cotto. The only guy in boxing that can put either of them in such a position is Pac, and it doesn't look like Manny wants another 154 lb tilt.

Golovkin is the one that is going to have to cave because, unlike Cotto or Canelo, he can't generate decent PPV numbers yet.

So, belts or not, he is going to have to go down to 155 if he wants the big payday.

In case no one has noticed, there are plenty of options for good fights at 154. Neither man needs Golovkin to make money.

[jujigatame]

At 160 lbs, Golovkin by KO.

At 155 lbs, Canelo by stoppage.

I really don't think the weight makes that much difference, especially considering they're both the same size.

[ikorolev]

But that's the point, Deadgen.

No matter what the sanctioning bodies try to dictate, there's no "has to" when it comes to Canelo and Cotto. The only guy in boxing that can put either of them in such a position is Pac, and it doesn't look like Manny wants another 154 lb tilt.

Golovkin is the one that is going to have to cave because, unlike Cotto or Canelo, he can't generate decent PPV numbers yet.

So, belts or not, he is going to have to go down to 155 if he wants the big payday.

In case no one has noticed, there are plenty of options for good fights at 154. Neither man needs Golovkin to make money.

Once again, Golovkin's first priority is the belt. If Canelo or Cotto play divas and insist on 155, WBC will have to strip them. If WBC doesn't strip them, Loefler should sue.

[koolkc107]

But that's the point, Deadgen.

No matter what the sanctioning bodies try to dictate, there's no "has to" when it comes to Canelo and Cotto. The only guy in boxing that can put either of them in such a position is Pac, and it doesn't look like Manny wants another 154 lb tilt.

Golovkin is the one that is going to have to cave because, unlike Cotto or Canelo, he can't generate decent PPV numbers yet.

So, belts or not, he is going to have to go down to 155 if he wants the big payday.

In case no one has noticed, there are plenty of options for good fights at 154. Neither man needs Golovkin to make money.

Once again, Golovkin's first priority is the belt. If Canelo or Cotto play divas and insist on 155, WBC will have to strip them. If WBC doesn't strip them, Loefler should sue.

That is what they are saying, ikorolev, so no argument there technically.

But you couldn't have been following Golovkin's career all this time and not notice how
pretty much everything is ultimately about setting him up for big paydays.

That's why Golovkin isn't going to fight Lara anytime soon; it isn't that Erislandy might beat him
it is about the fact that almost no one looks good against him, and a bad showing would kill
Golovkin's lottery ticket.

That is why there is no interest in a Ward fight at 168, since the defeat would leave him "exposed".

They want the big payday just as much or more than the belts.

Honestly, I hope you are right and I am wrong, especially in Canelo's case. Canelo should be a middleweight.

But the facts are he's never fought there...and he can prove that it is Loeffler and Golovkin who
changed their tune about the fight and the catchweight and not him.

[ikorolev]

Once again, Golovkin's first priority is the belt. If Canelo or Cotto play divas and insist on 155, WBC will have to strip them. If WBC doesn't strip them, Loefler should sue.

That is what they are saying, ikorolev, so no argument there technically.

But you couldn't have been following Golovkin's career all this time and not notice how
pretty much everything is ultimately about setting him up for big paydays.

That's why Golovkin isn't going to fight Lara anytime soon; it isn't that Erislandy might beat him
it is about the fact that almost no one looks good against him, and a bad showing would kill
Golovkin's lottery ticket.

That is why there is no interest in a Ward fight at 168, since the defeat would leave him "exposed".

They want the big payday just as much or more than the belts.

Honestly, I hope you are right and I am wrong, especially in Canelo's case. Canelo should be a middleweight.

But the facts are he's never fought there...and he can prove that it is Loeffler and Golovkin who
changed their tune about the fight and the catchweight and not him.

That is what you say, kk.

Golovkin has been saying for years that his goal is to unify MW belts. They didn't fight Lara, because he is not a MW and would not get Golovkin any closer to his goal. Of course, money is also in consideration, but it is secondary for them. Lara wouldn't bring any money either. Besides, there could've been a hard time getting Lara approved by HBO. By the way, Lara doesn't want Golovkin at 160 anymore. After watching the Lemieux fight, Lara suddenly decided that he got a lot of attractive options at 154, so he is not moving up.

The same with Ward. No perks in terms of MW unification or money.