"The Phantom Punch"- Solved !!(?)(2013)

[Caractacus]

At least according to author Paul Gallender check these two interviews out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MgeInzvN_Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBOzv45vNxA

[Caractacus]

that book was "Thirty years in the making"?,
man talk about pre-planning.

[Ambling Alp II]

The guy is a clown. Liston is the second best heavyweight of all time?

There is no way in the world that Liston was at least 43 when he fought Ali.
If people would just think about what that actual entails they would realize how silly it is.
If he actually was that old, then certainly by the time he was famous someone who grew up with him and/or went to school with him would notice.

If you are say 43 yourself and were in the same grade in school with the heavyweight champion of the world who passes himself off as 31, you aren't going to know that could not be true?

At what stage in his life he start doing this?
When he really was 20, he obviously could not say he was 8.
When he was really 30, could he really start saying that he was 18? Nobody would question it?

He might have been able to fudge it a year or two (which the census indicated) but that's about it.

[Caractacus]

He said that he believes that Sonny Liston may have been born in the year 1919 !
and that the reason that Liston took a dive was because the Black Muslims were holding his wife and daughter as hostages.
How can you agrue with that?

[BoxBuzz]

He said that he believes that Sonny Liston may have been born in the year 1919 !
and that the reason that Liston took a dive was because the Black Muslims were holding his wife and daughter as hostages.
How can you agrue with that?

You can't, anymore than you can argue that the USA never went to the moon, or that 911 was planned by the Bush's.

These are pure and simply science fiction facts!

[Controversial]

I'm sure the census appeared a few years ago that confirmed Liston was born in 1930, so aged 33 went he fought Ali the first time. I do think he took a dive in the rematch though, not sure about the kidnap claims but something not right about that fight. The author is obviously a huge Liston fan which makes his book and claims quite biased.

[Controversial]

As a fighter Liston took his brother Charlie's name.

Nat Fleischer knew this and constantly taunted Liston, calling him "Charlie" in his Ring magazine.

Once younger brother Charlie showed up at a Liston training camp, and Liston was very unhappy and did his best to avoid him. Jack McKinney wrote about that.

Liston was older than his given age.

So when do you think he was born? To be honest it's all speculation as census records are notoriously inaccurate and potentially misleading, especially for poor black families in that era.

[Caractacus]

I remember Ezzard Charles saying ringside in an interview at the first Liston-Clay fight in 1964,
that he had thought Liston was much older then his stated age too and seemed to remember
he had sparred with him at one point in his career.

[Caractacus]

I'll tell you one thing,if Liston was actually born in 1919
his dying at age 51 of natural(?) causes in late December 1970
would be a lot more believable.

[klompton]

This guy is so full of shit.

[Controversial]

My guess, for what it's worth, is that Liston was in his forties when he beat Patterson.

Mickey Walker swore that he remembered Archie Moore as a sparring partner at his camp in 1928-29.

If Moore was 15 years old then, that would make him in his middle forties or older in 1960

Sorry you lost me there, what's Mickey Walker and Archie Moore got to do with Liston's age?

[klompton]

Both Moore and Liston's age have already been established within reason.

[BoxBuzz]

Both Moore and Liston's age have already been established within reason.

Well this thread is "outside of the box" and "reason" is not a required part of the formula. So when he delves into the realm of the "unreasonable" this information begins to fall together perfectly.

[klompton]

All i know is that any author who goes into detail about how his subjects dick is bigger than anyone elses (im not kidding btw) has screeched past bias and hero worship and wound up straight in obsessive, adoring, hagiography territory. Reading Gallenders work leads one to believe liston was abe lincoln, jesus, mother theresa, moses, john holmes, leonardo davinci and srr all rolled into one. He wasnt.

[BoxBuzz]

All i know is that any author who goes into detail about how his subjects dick is bigger than anyone elses (im not kidding btw) has screeched past bias and hero worship and wound up straight in obsessive, adoring, hagiography territory. Reading Gallenders work leads one to believe liston was abe lincoln, jesus, mother theresa, moses, john holmes, leonardo davinci and srr all rolled into one. He wasnt.

It must have been a slow news day when they called him in for that interview.

[wouter]

All i know is that any author who goes into detail about how his subjects dick is bigger than anyone elses (im not kidding btw).

I though that was in Nick Tosches's book, but I agree that both his and Gallender's work should be classified as fiction.

[Caractacus]

All i know is that any author who goes into detail about how his subjects dick is bigger than anyone elses (im not kidding btw).

I though that was in Nick Tosches's book, but I agree that both his and Gallender's work should be classified as fiction.

I think that may have been comedian Shecky Green
who may have been in the same steam rooms as Liston there in Las Vegas.

[Caractacus]

As a fighter Liston took his brother Charlie's name.

Nat Fleischer knew this and constantly taunted Liston, calling him "Charlie" in his Ring magazine.

Once younger brother Charlie showed up at a Liston training camp, and Liston was very unhappy and did his best to avoid him. Jack McKinney wrote about that.

Liston was older than his given age.

From what I remember his mother saying after he won the championship.
They couldnt be sure in what year he was born,
because the day he was born it was recorded by carving it into a tree there in St. Francis County Arkansas,
and that tree had been cut down many many years before.

[Caractacus]

Are you saying that perhaps Sonny Liston had assumed another persons identity at some point?
Wow that makes him even more mysterious.

[Ambling Alp II]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain in a practical sense, he could have gotton away with claiming he was 11 or 12 years younger than he really was?

At a certain point in his life, he would have to make the claim for the first time.
Think about it, if today you starting claiming that you were 12 years younger than you really are, is everyone really going to believe it?

It's ridiculous.

[Ilya Muromets]

At least according to author Paul Gallender check these two interviews out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MgeInzvN_Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBOzv45vNxA

I watched about two minutes of that first video until the jerk was going on about Liston and Ali being the two best heavyweights ever and how children all loved Liston and he was really a great guy who was misunderstood and bla bla bla.

Liston was a thug, a career criminal, who worked for the mob, and Ali was with the Black Muslims and half his so called wins were due to Black Muslim intimidation of his opponents and other crookedness, and both the Liston-Ali fights were total frauds.

They interviewed the people leaving the arena after the second fight and they couldn't find a single person who thought that the fight was legit.

[BoxBuzz]

At least according to author Paul Gallender check these two interviews out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MgeInzvN_Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBOzv45vNxA

I watched about two minutes of that first video until the jerk was going on about Liston and Ali being the two best heavyweights ever and how children all loved Liston and he was really a great guy who was misunderstood and bla bla bla.

Liston was a thug, a career criminal, who worked for the mob, and Ali was with the Black Muslims and half his so called wins were due to Black Muslim intimidation of his opponents and other crookedness, and both the Liston-Ali fights were total frauds.

They interviewed the people leaving the arena after the second fight and they couldn't find a single person who thought that the fight was legit.

One thing's for sure....when ever "They" report something, you can count on it being the troo fax! It's a good thing we have "They", and of course "The People" or we would likely never get to the bottom of any controversial subject matter. Thank god for "They"! As well as the "people"!!

However in this case if I was there I think I would have told "They" the same thing......but not for the reasons assumed. Walcott owns it. And Liston very likely imploded on a psyche level. The sort of shyt that happens every now and again. But it was pretty confusing at the time. It's just a lot more boring than people want to accept.

[Ilya Muromets]

One thing's for sure....when ever "They" report something, you can count on it being the troo fax! ....

The very mysterious "They" - to you - was, of course, the media guys, from the radio, I think, as they still were broadcasting boxing on the radio back then - and they - yes, "They" - stood by the exit and interviewed the people - yes "the People" - leaving the arena ...and there is no one who is so well aware that what "They" report on their media, including their very selective interviews with "the People", is generally as far from the "troo fax" as you can get as I am, but in this particular case I have no reason to doubt them. The two Liston - Clay fights were as phony as Barry's birth certificate.