Why Didn't Mayweather Rematch De La Hoya?

[sucracristo]

i think he had no chance to win a round in orthodox and it could have
cost him the fight. he was never a fast starter, so one doesn't know what
would have happened, but it certainly did not help him.

i didn't think hagler had much of a chance of winning a decision before
that fight. i also didn't think leonard would fight the 2nd half the way he
did, which has now become become boxing jargon, "leonarding rounds".
hagler went the whole time in the lead-up talking about k and o in his
hands and this fight is not going the distance, and leonard was able to
pick up hagler's punches as hagler wound up, and just lean back away
from them. for a while he was sticking his chin out inviting hagler to
swing and hagler was missing be more than a foot. the last few rounds
the petronellis were BEGGING hagler "let the tiger out, mahv!!...don't stop
until he's down!! we need this one BAD!!!" and hagler was smiling and
clowning like he was coasting to a decision. i was an amateur at the time
and a pro manager (and AP boxing writer) in my gym actually said the fight
was fixed and what they negotiated beforehand, but i just assumed he was
speculating. hagler definitely didn't pursue leonard with urgency that anyone
would expect from him in a close fight where he gave away early rounds.

[man]

i think he had no chance to win a round in orthodox and it could have
cost him the fight. he was never a fast starter, so one doesn't know what
would have happened, but it certainly did not help him.

i didn't think hagler had much of a chance of winning a decision before
that fight. i also didn't think leonard would fight the 2nd half the way he
did, which has now become become boxing jargon, "leonarding rounds".
hagler went the whole time in the lead-up talking about k and o in his
hands and this fight is not going the distance, and leonard was able to
pick up hagler's punches as hagler wound up, and just lean back away
from them. for a while he was sticking his chin out inviting hagler to
swing and hagler was missing be more than a foot. the last few rounds
the petronellis were BEGGING hagler "let the tiger out, mahv!!...don't stop
until he's down!! we need this one BAD!!!" and hagler was smiling and
clowning like he was coasting to a decision. i was an amateur at the time
and a pro manager (and AP boxing writer) in my gym actually said the fight
was fixed and what they negotiated beforehand, but i just assumed he was
speculating. hagler definitely didn't pursue leonard with urgency that anyone
would expect from him in a close fight where he gave away early rounds.

i actually do not get what you try to say.

[sucracristo]

i actually do not get what you try to say.

the thing that cost hagler was his lack of urgency and disparity of skill, combined
with leonard running a lot.

[jamesmcdonnell]

i would not be surprised if that was
literally the only time when someone tried
to pull this off in a major fight.

hagler switched back and forth like that in every fight.

still, i think practically fighting the first two
in orthodox was more than being flexible
with both sides. it was a decision he made
beforehand. when he switched rightie in
between with hearns, it was brief and made
sense. in my view what he did against ray
was quite different. i think he had no chance
to win a round in orthodox and it could have
cost him the fight. he was never a fast starter,
so one doesn't know what would have happened,
but it certainly did not help him.

and being stubborn is no excuse for being
cocky or outright stupid in one the biggest
fights of his career. whoever came up with
the idea should have been stopped by the
others involved in the decision. i mean, there
must have been someone who said "how about
fighting the first two orhtodox?". i for one think
almost everyone ever involved in boxing would
have said, "nah, maybe not that great a fight plan."

You know what, fighters don't always execute the plans given them by their team. Hagler was foolish in many ways with regard to the Leonard fight, agreeing to fighting in a huge ring, the choice of gloves, and perhaps worst, the 12 round distance. As the champ he didn't need to cede terms, but he wanted to bust Leonard up so bad - he always felt he didn't get his due, and that Leonard was a pretty boy who'd had it easy, the Olympic golden boy who had everything on a plate, whilst he did it all the hard way.

Part of him no doubt thought 'I'll show them, I'll show Ray, I'll give him every term he wants, and I'll STILL kick his ass' - very silly. Sure the money was a factor, it must have been the biggest payday of his career, but for me, I think that was secondary to the burning desire to right a perceived wrong, smash SRL, and take his rightful place as the king of the sport.

In a smaller ring, or over 15, or even worse for Ray, both, SRL would have had a much harder time keeping Hagler off him.

[man]

i actually do not get what you try to say.

the thing that cost hagler was his lack of urgency and disparity of skill, combined
with leonard running a lot.

agreed, it was the lamest version of
hagler one could imagine. he didn't
want to be marvin hagler winning, he
wanted to be sugar ray.

[jamesmcdonnell]

i actually do not get what you try to say.

the thing that cost hagler was his lack of urgency and disparity of skill, combined
with leonard running a lot.

agreed, it was the lamest version of
hagler one could imagine. he didn't
want to be marvin hagler winning, he
wanted to be sugar ray.

I think the extent to which Leonard ran is rather overplayed. He threw a lot of shots in that fight, sure, they weren't haymakers, but he threw and landed plenty of shots. Did anyone expect him to stand right in front of Hagler winging away - that would have been suicide.

[man]

I think the extent to which Leonard ran is rather overplayed. He threw a lot of shots in that fight, sure, they weren't haymakers, but he threw and landed plenty of shots. Did anyone expect him to stand right in front of Hagler winging away - that would have been suicide.

for the record, i believe ray fought brilliantly
and won a close decision. marvin went forward,
but not in a decisive way IMO and ray was very
good on the backfoot. clearly ray was controlling
what happened.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I agree, people like to claim he ran like a thief all night, but if that's the case, he wouldn't have been outlanding Hagler consistently.

I think a lot of people who loved Hagler, were bitter - I know, because Marvin was my absolute favourite fighter back then - and I wasn't keen on Leonard.

[man]

I think a lot of people who loved Hagler, were bitter - I know, because Marvin was my absolute favourite fighter back then - and I wasn't keen on Leonard.

in the end i believe marvin lost due his own
weird feelings. other people had tough
upcomings too, but he chose to remain in a
way bitter throughout his career. in a certain
way he had way too much respect for leonard,
which he totally lacked for tommy.

instead of just trying to beat leonard in the
ring, he put his life's misery on the line. as
if he had not been one of the richest and
most successful boxers in history. in a way
it is quite immature. it was a close fight, but
marvin did not do enough, risk enough, fight
enough to win it. maybe a draw, but he just
didn't deserve the nod.

[franio]

Because referees wouldn't help him second time.

[Badhusker]

Because referees wouldn't help him second time.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I think a lot of people who loved Hagler, were bitter - I know, because Marvin was my absolute favourite fighter back then - and I wasn't keen on Leonard.

in the end i believe marvin lost due his own
weird feelings. other people had tough
upcomings too, but he chose to remain in a
way bitter throughout his career. in a certain
way he had way too much respect for leonard,
which he totally lacked for tommy.

instead of just trying to beat leonard in the
ring, he put his life's misery on the line. as
if he had not been one of the richest and
most successful boxers in history. in a way
it is quite immature. it was a close fight, but
marvin did not do enough, risk enough, fight
enough to win it. maybe a draw, but he just
didn't deserve the nod.

Bitterness and pig headedness came as easily to Marvin as breathing in and out. He had a chip the size of an easter island head on his shoulder. He did come up tough, and he had to fight bloody hard, and overcome serious opposition to get where he got.

I remember an interview with him I think during the punditry for a Jermaine Taylor fight - forget which one.

They were talking to him about Hopkins and Taylor, and the middleweight title belt being united again, and how it was undisputed for the first time since his reign, and a stone faced Marvin said "I'm still the undisputed champ."

The other guests all laughed mirthfully at first, then nervously, and then it went rather quiet.

Marvin chimed up "I never lost the title in that ring, Leonard never beat me, and as far as i'm concerned I'm still the undisputed middleweight champion of the world"

To say he looked deadly serious is an understatement, there wasn't a hint of humour or irony, and he looked at the other guests as if to challenge them to say otherwise. They didn't.

I think he's mellowed a little bit in more recent years, but Marvin for much of his career and life in general I think, was a very angry man, full of resentment and bile. He wanted to prove a point against Leonard, that he was superior in every way, and it hugely backfired, and I don't think he truly ever got over it.

[man]

Bitterness and pig headedness came as easily to Marvin as breathing in and out.

to me he and larry are the big crybabies
of boxing. they had such great careers
and couldn't accept that not everything
had to go their way. i find it weird when
boxers, real world class boxers have
such fragile egos.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Bitterness and pig headedness came as easily to Marvin as breathing in and out.

to me he and larry are the big crybabies
of boxing. they had such great careers
and couldn't accept that not everything
had to go their way. i find it weird when
boxers, real world class boxers have
such fragile egos.

I think it is entirely understandable, when your entire life is built around winning and being the champ, it's a hard fall to take when you lose it all.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- Marv was right though, he didn't lose anything but an orchestrated boxing political split decision.

He won the war flat out when Leonard retired from boxing days later to avoid the rematch. Marv retired with dignity. Leonard immediately announced his comeback to jerk around few more fighters before being KTFO out Hector Camacho who couldn't dent a marshmallow at that weight. Marv ain't bitter, he's a wealthy man who came from nothing and did things his way with an honor that the latest flashy kid on the block could never emulate. Making movies in Italy ain't bad stuff at all. You sweeties should get out more to check out those Italian actresses not to mention the food. Italians adore him there for what he is, a real alltime great for the people.

Marv and I would get along great. Probably not so well with the prevailing jellies dominating these boards who make up stuff. Keep it real, not smack.