Former champ, O'Neil Bell (40) murdered.

[TheBeast]

2003-12-19
Vs Derrick Harmon 23 4 0
Ramada Inn, Rosemont, Illinois, USA
NABF cruiserweight title

Bell brutally stopped Harmon

[TheBeast]

Bell won by KTFO

[sucracristo]

Take people away from that & they will change.

that is a top down central planning social engineering way of thinking.
take them and put them where? are they your pets?
i agree they are undereducated, but when people try to introduce choice to
compete with the union controlled government failing monopoly, and the
parents overwhelmingly support this option, government steps in and blocks it.
uncle sam replacing daddy and subsidizing failure is making things measurably
worse. not sure you really know what life was like in the past in different parts
of the country, but cities were not always shooting galleries and this is not related
to over issuance of permits. chicago, for example, most of the illegal guns are tracked
to a few federally licensed dealers in the chicago area selling lots of guns quickly
filling the hands of criminal gangs, but the federal gun crime prosecution rate is
the lowest there of all the federal districts. criminals are picked up over and over
and let back onto the streets. laws aren't being enforced and parenting doesn't
exist. you can't take people out of that and put them somewhere else and assume
that the dynamics that led to the problem won't reappear. you can follow these
people to utah and find they haven't changed. we need people graduating high
school, getting jobs, waiting until they are married and in their 20's to have kids,
and mommy and daddy raising their own kids and knowing what they are up to.
that eliminates 90% of the poverty rate. my parents and their friends used to live
in the areas that people call "ghetto" now. there is nothing wrong with the construction
of those buildings and streets that inherently make them ghettos. many of those
neighborhoods get rehabbed and become high rent again when responsible people
decide they want to live there again. it's not about getting the people out of the area.
central planners don't make people educated and responsible. it's usually the opposite.
personal responsibility needs to be re-introduced to those areas, laws enforced, and
when drop outs decide to breed with other dropouts, we need to stop subsidizing it
and instead go back to churches and charities and families and adoption to intervene
and make these people take responsibility for the choices they made. others should also
see that if you make bad decisions your life is going to be hard. if yopur kids need to
be put in a responsible environment while you go pick fruit to pay for it then maybe that
will make you and everyone else think twice about dropping out and breeding.
the way we're doing things now, one generation is getting worse than the last.

[sucracristo]

2003-12-19
Vs Derrick Harmon 23 4 0
Ramada Inn, Rosemont, Illinois, USA
NABF cruiserweight title

Bell brutally stopped Harmon

thanks for these beast. probably the last time most of us will see him doing what he did best.
another one taken too soon.

[crow]

This happens all over the "great" usa, nobody ever tries to fix the real problem, they just make excuses, because "we have the right to bear arms" . In this case "inner city atlanta" is to blame I guess. Next week it'll be another city to blame, or maybe a cop will be to blame after he shoots someone who is a danger to society. Anyone lucky enough like me that lives outside the US will understand.

Actually, i really believe those poor defensless people slowly murdered in cold blood, one by one, at the Bataclan 2 weeks ago would have given just about everything to have a gun by their side, rather than getting slaughtered by remorseless criminals immune to gun laws.

But i'm sure if it was you standing there, death would have been a better outcome than being forced to learn to defend yourself with weapons too dangerous to be put into everyday people's hands.()...

[dominik]

This happens all over the "great" usa, nobody ever tries to fix the real problem, they just make excuses, because "we have the right to bear arms" . In this case "inner city atlanta" is to blame I guess. Next week it'll be another city to blame, or maybe a cop will be to blame after he shoots someone who is a danger to society. Anyone lucky enough like me that lives outside the US will understand.

Actually, i really believe those poor defensless people slowly murdered in cold blood, one by one, at the Bataclan 2 weeks ago would have given just about everything to have a gun by their side, rather than getting slaughtered by remorseless criminals immune to gun laws.

But i'm sure if it was you standing there, death would have been a better outcome than being forced to learn to defend yourself with weapons too dangerous to be put into everyday people's hands.()...

well most americans don't have a gun with them either if they attend a concert:). however I don't think this thread should be filled with gun control discussion. I think that limiting gun Access is good but in reality real criminals will find a way to get a weapon whether they are legal or not. the bigger issue with guns is all the accidents that happen (Kids Shooting their brother, dad mistakes wife for a thief...)

[crow]

the bigger issue with guns is all the accidents that happen (Kids Shooting their brother, dad mistakes wife for a thief...)

Nope.

The bigger issue is whether it's legal or not to protect yourself your life, family and property.

[banjo]

I'm happy guns aren't that easy to get in Europe, I wish the best to everybody he cared about.

They werent that tough for the Muslim terrorists in Paris to get were they?

Some places in Europe are so limp-wristed that even the COPS dont have guns when they need them!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBtct-z9JS8

You'd be surprised at how many legal gun owners there are in the UK, the difference is over here we're not basket cases.

Also we have the army if you need somebody shooting, the cops have their hands full with speeding drivers.

[jamesmcdonnell]

forrest, now bell, atl realy seems a no good place to live.

Yes, I've heard bad things about downtown Atlanta.

[jamesmcdonnell]

This happens all over the "great" usa, nobody ever tries to fix the real problem, they just make excuses, because "we have the right to bear arms" . In this case "inner city atlanta" is to blame I guess. Next week it'll be another city to blame, or maybe a cop will be to blame after he shoots someone who is a danger to society. Anyone lucky enough like me that lives outside the US will understand.

Actually, i really believe those poor defensless people slowly murdered in cold blood, one by one, at the Bataclan 2 weeks ago would have given just about everything to have a gun by their side, rather than getting slaughtered by remorseless criminals immune to gun laws.

But i'm sure if it was you standing there, death would have been a better outcome than being forced to learn to defend yourself with weapons too dangerous to be put into everyday people's hands.()...

So you're argument is that every single person in the world should carry a firearm, in the unlikely event they happen to be the victim of a terrorist attack?

More Americans have died shootings by American citizens in the U.S over the last decade, than all the terror attacks on U.S citizens combined.

The right to bear arms made sense back in the days of a tyrannical government, and a country which was barely formed, but it makes no sense now - the statistics speak for themselves, America can keep clinging to this hangover from a bygone age, but the fact is, as long as it does, the death toll will keep on piling up. It's a pretty clear choice.

Either continue to make it ridiculously easy for pretty much anyone to get whatever weapons they want, and have continual mass shootings, and tragedies, or make it more highly regulated, and watch the death toll drop.

The statistics don't lie, the U.S, despite being still the richest and most developed nation on earth, has an incredibly high death toll from guns, in fact, it is just behind mexico, and ahead of Nicaragua and Honduras - two of the poorest nations in the world.

[Chepppaaa]

nobody should get a gun.

[johnswan1]

US crime vs UK crime - the stats here tell you all you need to know.

From the below you can see the murder rate in the US per million people is 4x the rate in the UK.

Of those murders in the US 72% were due to firearms, compared to 2% in the UK.

So the question is whether the gun laws in the US are the main reason for a murder rate 4x times the rate in the UK. I think the answer has to be yes.

Murders with firearms
UK 14
US 9,369

Murders with firearms per million
UK 0.236
US 32.57 - 138 times more than United Kingdom

Violent crime > Murder rate
UK 722
US 12,996

Violent crime > Murder rate per million people
UK 11.68
US 42.01 - 4 times more than United Kingdom

[crow]

More Americans have died shootings by American citizens in the U.S over the last decade, than all the terror attacks on U.S citizens combined.

What about last century ?
Which people were much more likely to die during the last century, the armed or the disarmed ones ?

The right to bear arms made sense back in the days of a tyrannical government, and a country which was barely formed, but it makes no sense now

Ask brown people whether they hold our government as tyrannical or not.
You might be surprised by their response.

Or, don't even go that far; ask any random person on the street.

Either continue to make it ridiculously easy for pretty much anyone to get whatever weapons they want, and have continual mass shootings, and tragedies, or make it more highly regulated, and watch the death toll drop.

You mean like they do have gun laws in Brazil, or South Africa ?
Both countries have gun laws, and their gun deaths are twice the US'.

the statistics speak for themselves,

You wouldn't know by chance what are the gun deaths statistics for Switzerland, where pretty much everybody is armed, do you ?

But since it's a civilised country, let's just pretend it never existed, so we can keep claiming guns makes people from rich and developed countries kill each other.

The statistics don't lie, the U.S, despite being still the richest and most developed nation on earth, has an incredibly high death toll from guns, in fact, it is just behind mexico, and ahead of Nicaragua and Honduras - two of the poorest nations in the world.

You're right, statistics don't lie.

USA, the richest and most developed nation on earth world ranks 37 th in health care system, behind Colombia, Costa Rica, Marocco and Chile. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Hea ... ms_in_2000)

Accordingly, if you're under 1 year old, you have more chances to survive in Slovakia, Hungary, Greece or Portugal than ole' USA.

[jamesmcdonnell]

More Americans have died shootings by American citizens in the U.S over the last decade, than all the terror attacks on U.S citizens combined.

What about last century ?
Which people were much more likely to die during the last century, the armed or the disarmed ones ?

The right to bear arms made sense back in the days of a tyrannical government, and a country which was barely formed, but it makes no sense now

Ask brown people whether they hold our government as tyrannical or not.
You might be surprised by their response.

Or, don't even go that far; ask any random person on the street.

Either continue to make it ridiculously easy for pretty much anyone to get whatever weapons they want, and have continual mass shootings, and tragedies, or make it more highly regulated, and watch the death toll drop.

You mean like they do have gun laws in Brazil, or South Africa ?
Both countries have gun laws, and their gun deaths are twice the US'.

the statistics speak for themselves,

You wouldn't know by chance what are the gun deaths statistics for Switzerland, where pretty much everybody is armed, do you ?

But since it's a civilised country, let's just pretend it never existed, so we can keep claiming guns makes people from rich and developed countries kill each other.

The statistics don't lie, the U.S, despite being still the richest and most developed nation on earth, has an incredibly high death toll from guns, in fact, it is just behind mexico, and ahead of Nicaragua and Honduras - two of the poorest nations in the world.

You're right, statistics don't lie.

USA, the richest and most developed nation on earth world ranks 37 th in health care system, behind Colombia, Costa Rica, Marocco and Chile. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Hea ... ms_in_2000)

Accordingly, if you're under 1 year old, you have more chances to survive in Slovakia, Hungary, Greece or Portugal than ole' USA.

We don't live in the last century dude. Just a heads up.

America is whether you wish to defend it or not, vastly overrated

Brazil is one of the most lawless countries in the developing world, it's hardly surprising that it has a huge murder rate despite gun controls, it has a corrupt police force, huge drug cartels, and a very trigger happy militia.

I said the U.S was the richest and most developed, I didn't say it was perfect, or had the best healthcare or anything else.

If you can't see that more guns, = more gun deaths, then you're simply living in fantasyland. How do you explain the UK's miniscule death rate from violent crime compared to the U.S?

[palooka]

Take people away from that & they will change.

that is a top down central planning social engineering way of thinking.
take them and put them where? are they your pets?
i agree they are undereducated, but when people try to introduce choice to
compete with the union controlled government failing monopoly, and the
parents overwhelmingly support this option, government steps in and blocks it.
uncle sam replacing daddy and subsidizing failure is making things measurably
worse. not sure you really know what life was like in the past in different parts
of the country, but cities were not always shooting galleries and this is not related
to over issuance of permits. chicago, for example, most of the illegal guns are tracked
to a few federally licensed dealers in the chicago area selling lots of guns quickly
filling the hands of criminal gangs, but the federal gun crime prosecution rate is
the lowest there of all the federal districts. criminals are picked up over and over
and let back onto the streets. laws aren't being enforced and parenting doesn't
exist. you can't take people out of that and put them somewhere else and assume
that the dynamics that led to the problem won't reappear. you can follow these
people to utah and find they haven't changed. we need people graduating high
school, getting jobs, waiting until they are married and in their 20's to have kids,
and mommy and daddy raising their own kids and knowing what they are up to.
that eliminates 90% of the poverty rate. my parents and their friends used to live
in the areas that people call "ghetto" now. there is nothing wrong with the construction
of those buildings and streets that inherently make them ghettos. many of those
neighborhoods get rehabbed and become high rent again when responsible people
decide they want to live there again. it's not about getting the people out of the area.
central planners don't make people educated and responsible. it's usually the opposite.
personal responsibility needs to be re-introduced to those areas, laws enforced, and
when drop outs decide to breed with other dropouts, we need to stop subsidizing it
and instead go back to churches and charities and families and adoption to intervene
and make these people take responsibility for the choices they made. others should also
see that if you make bad decisions your life is going to be hard. if yopur kids need to
be put in a responsible environment while you go pick fruit to pay for it then maybe that
will make you and everyone else think twice about dropping out and breeding.
the way we're doing things now, one generation is getting worse than the last.

Some very thought provoking posts that could do with a different thread?

RIP Mr Bell.

[jamesmcdonnell]

More Americans have died shootings by American citizens in the U.S over the last decade, than all the terror attacks on U.S citizens combined.

What about last century ?
Which people were much more likely to die during the last century, the armed or the disarmed ones ?

The right to bear arms made sense back in the days of a tyrannical government, and a country which was barely formed, but it makes no sense now

Ask brown people whether they hold our government as tyrannical or not.
You might be surprised by their response.

Or, don't even go that far; ask any random person on the street.

Either continue to make it ridiculously easy for pretty much anyone to get whatever weapons they want, and have continual mass shootings, and tragedies, or make it more highly regulated, and watch the death toll drop.

You mean like they do have gun laws in Brazil, or South Africa ?
Both countries have gun laws, and their gun deaths are twice the US'.

the statistics speak for themselves,

You wouldn't know by chance what are the gun deaths statistics for Switzerland, where pretty much everybody is armed, do you ?

But since it's a civilised country, let's just pretend it never existed, so we can keep claiming guns makes people from rich and developed countries kill each other.

The statistics don't lie, the U.S, despite being still the richest and most developed nation on earth, has an incredibly high death toll from guns, in fact, it is just behind mexico, and ahead of Nicaragua and Honduras - two of the poorest nations in the world.

You're right, statistics don't lie.

USA, the richest and most developed nation on earth world ranks 37 th in health care system, behind Colombia, Costa Rica, Marocco and Chile. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Hea ... ms_in_2000)

Accordingly, if you're under 1 year old, you have more chances to survive in Slovakia, Hungary, Greece or Portugal than ole' USA.

Whilst I'm sure many people in the U.S might hold that the U.S government is tyrannical, owning firearms is not likely to protect them from that. If I am black, and at a rally, and I open fire on the police in relatiation for brutality, the end result will be my death, the police are not going to run away

Unless you are suggesting that every citizen arm themselves, and start a civil war to overthrow the government, then I fail to see the logic in how having a firearm protects you from a tyrannical government in this day and age. The government has tanks, attack choppers, surface to surface missiles and endless resources, no armed militia is going to achieve anything. So precisely what does the right to bear arms in the constitution achieve in this day and age, other than enabling people to murder one another much more easily than a country like say - the UK, which is analogous in many ways to the U.S (thought of course not a facsimile- thank god).

You seem to be suggesting by some sort of flawed logic, that pretty much unrestrained sales of guns and ammunitions to citizenry, with few checks or balances, is going to make America safer, despite the fact that the evidence flies in the face of that.

I can only guess you own a number of weapons, and you think you should defend your right to the government taking them away.

[Taansend]

Take people away from that & they will change.

that is a top down central planning social engineering way of thinking.
take them and put them where? are they your pets?
i agree they are undereducated, but when people try to introduce choice to
compete with the union controlled government failing monopoly, and the
parents overwhelmingly support this option, government steps in and blocks it.
uncle sam replacing daddy and subsidizing failure is making things measurably
worse. not sure you really know what life was like in the past in different parts
of the country, but cities were not always shooting galleries and this is not related
to over issuance of permits. chicago, for example, most of the illegal guns are tracked
to a few federally licensed dealers in the chicago area selling lots of guns quickly
filling the hands of criminal gangs, but the federal gun crime prosecution rate is
the lowest there of all the federal districts. criminals are picked up over and over
and let back onto the streets. laws aren't being enforced and parenting doesn't
exist. you can't take people out of that and put them somewhere else and assume
that the dynamics that led to the problem won't reappear. you can follow these
people to utah and find they haven't changed. we need people graduating high
school, getting jobs, waiting until they are married and in their 20's to have kids,
and mommy and daddy raising their own kids and knowing what they are up to.
that eliminates 90% of the poverty rate. my parents and their friends used to live
in the areas that people call "ghetto" now. there is nothing wrong with the construction
of those buildings and streets that inherently make them ghettos. many of those
neighborhoods get rehabbed and become high rent again when responsible people
decide they want to live there again. it's not about getting the people out of the area.
central planners don't make people educated and responsible. it's usually the opposite.
personal responsibility needs to be re-introduced to those areas, laws enforced, and
when drop outs decide to breed with other dropouts, we need to stop subsidizing it
and instead go back to churches and charities and families and adoption to intervene
and make these people take responsibility for the choices they made. others should also
see that if you make bad decisions your life is going to be hard. if yopur kids need to
be put in a responsible environment while you go pick fruit to pay for it then maybe that
will make you and everyone else think twice about dropping out and breeding.
the way we're doing things now, one generation is getting worse than the last.

Why do you think they're my pets?

That's a bizarre thing to say.

[asdfjkl]

I'm happy guns aren't that easy to get in Europe, I wish the best to everybody he cared about.

They werent that tough for the Muslim terrorists in Paris to get were they?

Some places in Europe are so limp-wristed that even the COPS dont have guns when they need them!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBtct-z9JS8

Islam is a much bigger problem in Europe as guns are and most of the guns owned by muslims are made in America, flown over to Arabian countys and smuggled to Europe.
Barely any terrorist on earth got the skills to create something like that.

[sucracristo]

Islam is a much bigger problem in Europe as guns are and most of the guns owned by muslims are made in America

if you are referring to charlie hebdo and the recent paris attacks, etc, can you please
tell me the specific brands of firearms used? i was under the impression that the hebdo
rifles were kalashnikovs traced back to slovakia and recent paris attacks were carried out
with ak-47's.

[sucracristo]

Let's hope this cartoon doesnt turn out to be correct:

in the context of bell, i disagree entirely with the claims being made that
overissuance of legal pistol permits has anything to do with it and people
are just using this poor man's death to hijack the thread.

in response to this cartoon, i think it is extremely disrespectful to bell to take
his death as an opportunity to post cartoons like that. imagine if the guy's family
stumbled across this thread. i understand people can debate how to improve the
inner city violence situation that directly relates to this incident, and maybe people
can point to other incidents involving illegal firearms in other places to help make
a point one way or the other, but the theories about nature of islam itself are outside
the scope of this topic entirely, have nothing to do with boxing, and could be hurtful
to people trying to remember this man for what he accomplished in his life.

i have my beliefs on how we can reduce pain and suffering in this world and how
incidents like this can be reduced, but i don't believe a lot of the posts in this thread
are intended to respect this man's memory or help prevent this type of thing from
happening in the future. they are basically just using this man's death to start a rock
fight. i really liked the gif's beast posted. boxing can be a brutal sport, but
sometimes brutal sports can display great spirit and beauty.

hope all my american brothers and sisters had a happy thanksgiving.
peace

[tiny_acres]

Islam is a much bigger problem in Europe as guns are and most of the guns owned by muslims are made in America

if you are referring to charlie hebdo and the recent paris attacks, etc, can you please
tell me the specific brands of firearms used? i was under the impression that the hebdo
rifles were kalashnikovs traced back to slovakia and recent paris attacks were carried out
with ak-47's.

Great question. Looks like "asdfjkl" was using the traditional excuse of blaming America for Islamic terrorism.

ASSEDFUCK is a total retard.Do not even bother trying to use logic debating him

[asdfjkl]

Islam is a much bigger problem in Europe as guns are and most of the guns owned by muslims are made in America

if you are referring to charlie hebdo and the recent paris attacks, etc, can you please
tell me the specific brands of firearms used? i was under the impression that the hebdo
rifles were kalashnikovs traced back to slovakia and recent paris attacks were carried out
with ak-47's.

Great question. Looks like "asdfjkl" was using the traditional excuse of blaming America for Islamic terrorism.

Oh no, America isn't themain reason for Islam terrorism, but those terrorists do achieve the results they want to achieve thanks to guns and stuf like that. Fact you assume America is to blame for that doesn't have anything to deal with my opinion.

[Bricks]

Very sad.condolences to his family

[sucracristo]

but those terrorists do achieve the results they want to achieve thanks to guns and stuf like that. Fact you assume America is to blame for that doesn't have anything to deal with my opinion.

what? YOU said they were american guns, not him.
so are you going to respond to the challenge of that assumption with facts?
what were the brands used in the incidents and found in all these other weapons
caches in france and belgium? exactly how many were of american origin?
you know how much cheaper and easier it is to get old soviet origin firearms into france
from much closer countries? you said something. it was questioned. you just repeated
your assertion but we are past that now because i specifically stated where all accounts
say the firearms actually came from

[Evander]

We hear way too much of this stuff.