Wladimir Klitschko career obituary

[Tuan_Jim]

For 10 years we've had to listen to idolatrous Klitschko obsessives worship this man. Fencing Chris Byrd, Ruslan Chagaev, Tony Thompson and the gang elevated Wladimir to all-time great status. No one could ever point to one single great defining win but still, he was the best ever. No one could master his elaborate jab, grab, jab, grab, jab, grab, grab grab grab grab grab frugal right hand style.

Now we've come to the end of this entertainment-free decade of passive boxing (200+ holds initiated versus Povetkin, one of his 'major' victories), and watched him so dismally surrender his titles, can we finally accept this man cannot fight? Can we accept he is hugely limited and one-dimensional? Fury with a rare (for this era) combination of fearlessness, fitness, aggression and a work rate romped to a decision. Had Wladimir made a serious attempt to mix it up at the end he would have been KOd (again).

He is certainly a puncher. But the man can't take a punch, mentally unravels in a fight and, unsurprisingly, can be easily outboxed by someone who refuses to be transfixed by his jab. Delighted by Tyson Fury confirming what a lot of smart boxing fans have said for years.

[Dixonian]

I thought this was a dreadful fight all-around. Wlad was dreadful, Fury slightly less dreadful. People are comparing this fight to Douglas-Tyson. Please, I get that it's an upset but this was like fencing without swords.

[Tuan_Jim]

I said on CS when a man with a bad chin and stamina problems loses it can't really be that great of an upset. It's certainly not comparable to Douglas/Tyson.

I'm surprised so many people think it was a bad fight. I watched in a packed pub and it seemed to us an exciting fight in spite of Wladimir's desperate spoiling. Must be the most entertaining Klitschko fight since Brewster I.

[Dixonian]

I said on CS when a man with a bad chin and stamina problems loses it can't really be that great of an upset. It's certainly not comparable to Douglas/Tyson.

I'm surprised so many people think it was a bad fight. I watched in a packed pub and it seemed to us an exciting fight in spite of Wladimir's desperate spoiling. Must be the most entertaining Klitschko fight since Brewster I.

I had the opposite experience. People were actually walking out!

[Boxerbeetle]

I said on CS when a man with a bad chin and stamina problems loses it can't really be that great of an upset. It's certainly not comparable to Douglas/Tyson.

I'm surprised so many people think it was a bad fight. I watched in a packed pub and it seemed to us an exciting fight in spite of Wladimir's desperate spoiling. Must be the most entertaining Klitschko fight since Brewster I.

138 combined punches landed in 12 rounds. Not exactly the Thriller in Manilla

[lillywhite14]

I said on CS when a man with a bad chin and stamina problems loses it can't really be that great of an upset. It's certainly not comparable to Douglas/Tyson.

I'm surprised so many people think it was a bad fight. I watched in a packed pub and it seemed to us an exciting fight in spite of Wladimir's desperate spoiling. Must be the most entertaining Klitschko fight since Brewster I.

138 combined punches landed in 12 rounds. Not exactly the Thriller in Manilla

That's a pretty shocking stat if true!

[Tuan_Jim]

I said on CS when a man with a bad chin and stamina problems loses it can't really be that great of an upset. It's certainly not comparable to Douglas/Tyson.

I'm surprised so many people think it was a bad fight. I watched in a packed pub and it seemed to us an exciting fight in spite of Wladimir's desperate spoiling. Must be the most entertaining Klitschko fight since Brewster I.

138 combined punches landed in 12 rounds. Not exactly the Thriller in Manilla

Is that accurate? That's amazing. Think Ali and Frazier threw 138 punches in the first round.

If it was a bad fight the blame, as always, lies with Wladimir Klitschko. He was too petrified to throw and held incessantly. He is a dreadful boxer.

[Boxerbeetle]

I said on CS when a man with a bad chin and stamina problems loses it can't really be that great of an upset. It's certainly not comparable to Douglas/Tyson.

I'm surprised so many people think it was a bad fight. I watched in a packed pub and it seemed to us an exciting fight in spite of Wladimir's desperate spoiling. Must be the most entertaining Klitschko fight since Brewster I.

138 combined punches landed in 12 rounds. Not exactly the Thriller in Manilla

Is that accurate? That's amazing. Think Ali and Frazier threw 138 punches in the first round.

If it was a bad fight the blame, as always, lies with Wladimir Klitschko. He was too petrified to throw and held incessantly. He is a dreadful boxer.

Taken from another thread on here:

[Counter-puncher]

Classic jim/riddick style strawmanning

(british forum where almost nobody calls wlad an ATG):

"I've been telling you all along wlad isn't an ATG"

Forum: Umm we weren't really saying that but cheers, like, now as we were.

Jim: "well that told them, I really won that cyberwar"

(forum where nobody is saying wlad has a diverse set of offensive skills)

Riddick: All wlad is is a jab and right hand, very rarely a left hook, no uppercut no bodypunching I've said so all along"

Forum: Well umm we weren't saying he was but thanks for the penetrating insight and please don't be afraid to state the blindingly fvkcing obvious as though its a nugget of untarnished pure wisdom none of us had considered

Riddick: Well that's another cyberwar in which I emerge victorious

Jim and Riddick: Wlad is rubbish he's really negative he cant take a punch and he's a great big scaredycat

Forum: Well yes we've pretty much all said that a billion times but again thanks for the piercing insight

J and r: Another cyberwar won, we've been saying it all along

Forum:

[Counter-puncher]

I challenge jim to find a single idolatrous wlad worshipper on this board.....

[Old bones Ian]

I read somewhere that Frazier landed 400 punches in the 3rd Ali fight. And that was a guy at the end of his career!

[Tuan_Jim]

I challenge jim to find a single idolatrous wlad worshipper on this board.....

As an English speaker I have no idea what "strawmanning" means, but to deny that people on this very board have said numerous times that Wladimir Klitschko would be too much for the heavyweight greats is to deny reality, to call grass blue and the sky green. You seem to have some sort of grudge against me that has mangled your analysis of this subject.

[Counter-puncher]

You're doing important work Jim keep it up,without you who would be there to say wlad is a big scaredycat and he cant take a punch and he's really negative?

Forum: Uh we've all said that.

Oh, as you were then Jim, jog on.

[Tuan_Jim]

There are numerous debates about the quality of Wlad K in progress on this forum. You're choosing to ignore all this discussion because it doesn't fit your flawed, silly argument. Please go back to your strawmen, whatever that means.

[crusader]

Classic jim/riddick style strawmanning

(british forum where almost nobody calls wlad an ATG):

"I've been telling you all along wlad isn't an ATG"

Forum: Umm we weren't really saying that but cheers, like, now as we were.

Jim: "well that told them, I really won that cyberwar"

(forum where nobody is saying wlad has a diverse set of offensive skills)

Riddick: All wlad is is a jab and right hand, very rarely a left hook, no uppercut no bodypunching I've said so all along"

Forum: Well umm we weren't saying he was but thanks for the penetrating insight and please don't be afraid to state the blindingly fvkcing obvious as though its a nugget of untarnished pure wisdom none of us had considered

Riddick: Well that's another cyberwar in which I emerge victorious

Jim and Riddick: Wlad is rubbish he's really negative he cant take a punch and he's a great big scaredycat

Forum: Well yes we've pretty much all said that a billion times but again thanks for the piercing insight

J and r: Another cyberwar won, we've been saying it all along

Forum:

Too true. Jimmy boy, who used to be loaded_gloves but changed accounts for some reason, also seems like a miserable pudendum in general to me...moan, moan, moan, moan, moan.

Didn't you say you were finished with boxing Jim Jim? Or did you specifiy that you'd call it a day when Manny and Floyd finished?

[crusader]

Oh, and for ignorant Jim:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[Tuan_Jim]

Too true. Jimmy boy, who used to be loaded_gloves but changed accounts for some reason, also seems like a miserable pudendum in general to me...moan, moan, moan, moan, moan.

Didn't you say you were finished with boxing Jim Jim? Or did you specifiy that you'd call it a day when Manny and Floyd finished?

It wasn't as easy habit to quit, lover. Also I knew Wladimir Klitschko was never going to lose without me there to shout instructions to his opponent at the television screen. And anyway, how could I quit when fascinating people like you, who confuse 'having opinions' with 'moaning', are here to entertain me?

[crusader]

Lover? I see you're a creep too

Moaning refers mainly to how you express your opinions, not simply that you have them.

[Tuan_Jim]

But surely a forum should have a range of characters and voices, arguments and insults, cranks and freaks? Otherwise reading it would be as entertaining as a Wladimir Klitschko career set.

[Bodyshot3]

@Tuan_Jim.

By and large I think that the majority of the Wlad story is about a precisely managed, almost corporatist approach to boxing.
And that in turn has been why it has so often be a rather dull and uninspiring reign in a division where we want our drama and thunder!

Wlad and the people around him took stock of where he was heading after the Lamon Brewster meltdown and realised that they needed to revert to a far more controlled approach in and out of the ring or the whole project was over. He really was standing over the trapdoor for a while.

- The more progressive, explosive Wlad 'Mark 1' was hugely toned down.
- Manny looked at the weak points and developed a style designed to protect them whilst not losing the advantages of reach, power and strength.
- They viewed fighting in Germany as the way ahead; home advantage, good profits and fans who wanted the win and did not worry about the how.
- Defending in Germany became a system as well; contenders would need to take risks and K2 worked out what was just enough to get the win.
- They picked their moments to fight guys dangerous to Wlad; someone like Sam Peter got a crack 5 years after fight 1 and post Vitali as well.
- Live challengers like Haye and Povetkin were carefully worked into the schedule.

Wlad started out as an exciting fighter, looking to use his power and ready to go on the road; but after Sanders and Brewster what we got was a micro-managed career that eliminated risk to deliver results; but often at the expense of heavyweight excitement.

Systematic is a word I think that belongs to Wlad.

[Bard of Boxrec]

You're doing important work Jim keep it up,without you who would be there to say wlad is a big scaredycat and he cant take a punch and he's really negative?

Forum: Uh we've all said that.

Oh, as you were then Jim, jog on.

Why is it so difficult for you to understand that 'wlad as ATG' discussions actually exist?

[Tuan_Jim]

@Tuan_Jim.

By and large I think that the majority of the Wlad story is about a precisely managed, almost corporatist approach to boxing.
And that in turn has been why it has so often be a rather dull and uninspiring reign in a division where we want our drama and thunder!

Wlad and the people around him took stock of where he was heading after the Lamon Brewster meltdown and realised that they needed to revert to a far more controlled approach in and out of the ring or the whole project was over. He really was standing over the trapdoor for a while.

- The more progressive, explosive Wlad 'Mark 1' was hugely toned down.
- Manny looked at the weak points and developed a style designed to protect them whilst not losing the advantages of reach, power and strength.
- They viewed fighting in Germany as the way ahead; home advantage, good profits and fans who wanted the win and did not worry about the how.
- Defending in Germany became a system as well; contenders would need to take risks and K2 worked out what was just enough to get the win.
- They picked their moments to fight guys dangerous to Wlad; someone like Sam Peter got a crack 5 years after fight 1 and post Vitali as well.
- Live challengers like Haye and Povetkin were carefully worked into the schedule.

Wlad started out as an exciting fighter, looking to use his power and ready to go on the road; but after Sanders and Brewster what we got was a micro-managed career that eliminated risk to deliver results; but often at the expense of heavyweight excitement.

Systematic is a word I think that belongs to Wlad.

That's a fantastic post. I think you have summed it up perfectly. The most stage managed aspect of Wlad 'Mark 2' was the way it began, in 2006. Wlad had two title fights on the table, both of them rematches. The waning Chris Byrd, or Lamon Brewster who was still crumpling guys with his power. Wlad inevitably selected Byrd, and only rematched Lamon Brewster once he had 1) lost, 2) been inactive 18 months, 3) on medical suspension in the US. The Germans of course delighted in Wlad scoring his revenge, as hollow and contemptuous it seemed to any objective critic.

One thing that will always puzzle me is why so many people's passionately defend Wlad. Dull to watch, dirty tactics in and out of the ring. . . What's to like?

[Counter-puncher]

One thing that will always puzzle me is why so many people's passionately defend Wlad.

millions of posts on Boxing Forums after every Wlad fight for the past 10 years:

Wlad is rubbish, he's really negative, he can't take a punch, he's a great big scaredycat I hate him he's sh1t for boxing it will be a great day when he retires, I wish someone would knock him out

Jim: I just don't understand all these passionate defences of Wlad



etc

[Tuan_Jim]

But I'm discussing the high volume of boxing fans who worship Wladimir, who do physically exist and are active right now on Boxrec, as well as all the other forums and news paper comments sections. Your denial of this reminds me of Chemical Ali, telling the news cameras there were absolutely no American tanks in Iraq, as the tanks rolled by behind him in clear view. You've unfortunately taken a kneejerk stance against me, and are now in the unfavourable position of having to defend The thing which is not.

[Counter-puncher]

But I'm discussing the high volume of boxing fans who worship Wladimir, who do physically exist and are active right now on Boxrec, as well as all the other forums

yes, Wlad's been a really really popular champ on boxing forums. especially this British forum, where he is hero-worshipped by a high volume, legions of obsessiveswho have drooled over his every exciting display.

nobody has ever called him boring or negative on here, noone has ever wished him to be knocked out, the vast majority of posters on this forum have beheld his exciting title reign with awe, wishing only that it could be extended in perpetuity lacking your insight and penetrating intuition as they sadly do.

meanwhile, standing alone, like boxing's King Canute trying to stem the tidal wave of Wlad-love, you have been the honourable exception.