British Top 30 P4P December 2015

[palooka]

Here's my revised top 20 as well. Not that anyone cares lol.


1 (13) Tyson Fury
2 (1) Amir Khan
3 (6) James DeGale
4 (2) Kell Brook
5 (3) Scott Quigg
6 (4) Carl Frampton
7 (5) Jamie McDonnell
8 (7) Andy Lee
9 (8) Terry Flanaghan
10 (9) Lee Selby
11 (10) Ola Afolabi
12 (11) Martin Murray
13 (12) Liam Smith
14 (14) Lee Haskins
15 (NE) Anthony Crolla
16 (16) George Groves
17 (17) Tony Bellew
18 (18) Ricky Burns
19 (19) Billy Joe Saunders
20 (20) Chris Eubank jr.

Good list, Ian

[davie]

Good list personally would have Crolla 3 places higher

We seem to be gaining a bit of a consensus on Crolla here Horse, any chance of you bending to the will of the board here?

I simply couldn't make a case for Burns, Bellew or Saunders being above him.
And this coming from a Scottish Ricky Burns fan and someone who wrote Crolla off before last week's fight as "domestic level at best"
Surely Crollas win takes him above those 3

[Horse]

If Fury was the same size and weight as everybody else on the list he may not actually beat any of them. That's P4P. His success at the weight he's campaigning in is largely due to an advantage in height and weight, which are advantages that fighters can't have complementing each other in any other division. i.e. if you are taller than your opponent at a lower weight, you tend to have less weight on your body assuming similar frame size. P4P is Fury the best heavyweight in the world? Very doubtful. It's hard to assess heavies in a P4P sense given it's the division with the most height and weight variances.

Weight draining can be done at lower weights, so the heavyweight division isn't that much different to the other divisions.

When you do P4P H2H fights you don't make them the same size, you make them the same weight. Fury still gets to be tall in these hypothetical matchups.

[Horse]

Here's my revised top 20 as well. Not that anyone cares lol.


1 (13) Tyson Fury
2 (1) Amir Khan
3 (6) James DeGale
4 (2) Kell Brook
5 (3) Scott Quigg
6 (4) Carl Frampton
7 (5) Jamie McDonnell
8 (7) Andy Lee
9 (8) Terry Flanaghan
10 (9) Lee Selby
11 (10) Ola Afolabi
12 (11) Martin Murray
13 (12) Liam Smith
14 (14) Lee Haskins
15 (NE) Anthony Crolla
16 (16) George Groves
17 (17) Tony Bellew
18 (18) Ricky Burns
19 (19) Billy Joe Saunders
20 (20) Chris Eubank jr.

Liam Smith is way too high. The guy he beat for the world title was a nobody.

Eubank Jr is also too high. His record is pretty shallow at the moment.

[Horse]

Think the changes in the top 5 are merited. Perhaps an argument could be made that the order should be slightly different on ability, but based on the significance of the fights at the weekend I'm happy with the above.

Lots of question marks over the bottom 20. But I think those were well covered last month and I concur that the depth of British boxing just now makes a definitive order in the lower positions very hard to choose and open to subjective opinion.

[Horse]

Agree on Crolla.
Surely a win and a draw against a legit world title holder takes him above Billy Joe, Bellew and Burns

Perez was not really very legit.

I don't rate Perez as highly as most do, so I don't think Crolla deserves to be that high in the rankings for beating him.

[davie]

Agree on Crolla.
Surely a win and a draw against a legit world title holder takes him above Billy Joe, Bellew and Burns

Perez was not really very legit.

I don't rate Perez as highly as most do, so I don't think Crolla deserves to be that high in the rankings for beating him.

I'll get you to budge one of these days

[Horse]

Good list though Brook is a bit too high for me - the win over Porter was close and nearly 16 months ago.

I think Porter is better than Martinez, Kameda, Gradovich or Alexander; which are the best recent wins that the 5 fighters below him have.

I think he deserves to be above them now, but another world level win from any of them can put them above him.

[Horse]

Not sure i like the idea of Fury being number 1
But that being said, he has the best win on his resume in comparison to those at the top, and it was very recent obviously.

so while im not necesarilly keen on the idea, i cant really argue with it.

[Horse]

Good list personally would have Crolla 3 places higher

Crolla looked very impressive against Perez.

If I rated Perez more highly then Crolla would have been higher.

[CharlesListon]

Murray goes up after losing, Selby goes down after winning? Is it based on performance or results?

Selby was overtaken by Fury, so he dropped a place. Why do you seem so confused by these overtakings?



Because you didn't explain it. Now that you have explained it I do understand and agree with most of your list.

Not a bad effort. Well done.

[keithmoonhangover]

Just shows what a great month it's been. I'd probably have Crolla just behind Flanagan, good list though.

What a great time to be a boxing fan from these shores

Hear, hear. Amazing time to be a fan. Loving it at the minute.

[Horse]

We seem to be gaining a bit of a consensus on Crolla here Horse, any chance of you bending to the will of the board here?

I simply couldn't make a case for Burns, Bellew or Saunders being above him.
And this coming from a Scottish Ricky Burns fan and someone who wrote Crolla off before last week's fight as "domestic level at best"
Surely Crollas win takes him above those 3

Burns has a much more solid record than Crolla and his recent fight with Figueroa showed that he's still got enough to compete at a high level.

Bellew and Saunders both have big fights this month. If either lose fairly and clearly then Crolla will probably overtake them.

Like I've said I don't rate Perez very highly, so Crolla beating him wasn't a surprise.

[Horse]

I'll get you to budge one of these days

Good luck with that.

[Horse]

Because you didn't explain it. Now that you have explained it I do understand and agree with most of your list.

Not a bad effort. Well done.

Not meaning to be disrespectful, but I explained the situation in the opening post.

1. (8.) Tyson Fury
8. (7.) Lee Selby

The numbers in brackets are last month's rankings. Fury was 8th, he overtook Selby and rose to No. 1, so Selby dropped a place.

[ElJefe]

Not sure when you started doing these Horse but one of the oldest I could find was December 2008, 7 years ago to the month.

1. (1.) Joe Calzaghe
2. (2.) Ricky Hatton
3. (3.) David Haye
4. (4.) Junior Witter
5. (5.) Clinton Woods
6. (6.) Nicky Cook
7. (7.) Carl Froch
8. (8.) Enzo Maccarinelli
9. (9.) Jamie Moore
10. (10.) Alex Arthur

11. (11.) Rendall Munroe
12. (12.) Ian Napa
13. (13.) Kevin Mitchell
14. (14.) John Duddy (Irish)
15. (15.) Jonathan Thaxton
16. (17.) Bernard Dunne (Irish)
17. (16.) Wayne Elcock
18. (18.) Amir Khan
19. (19.) Gavin Rees
20. (20.) Matt Skelton

21. (21.) Colin Lynes
22. (27.) Ryan Rhodes
23. (NE.) Kell Brook
24. (30.) Paul Appleby
25. (22.) David Barnes
26. (23.) Dean Francis
27. (26.) Bradley Pryce
28. (28.) Martin Lindsay
29. (29.) Darren Barker
30. (24.) Danny Williams

Out - (25.) Kevin McIntyre

Khan, Brook and Mitchell the only survivors.

I wasn't a big boxing fan at the time, how do people think it compares to the top 30 of today?

[danamba7]

Not sure when you started doing these Horse but one of the oldest I could find was December 2008, 7 years ago to the month.

1. (1.) Joe Calzaghe
2. (2.) Ricky Hatton
3. (3.) David Haye
4. (4.) Junior Witter
5. (5.) Clinton Woods
6. (6.) Nicky Cook
7. (7.) Carl Froch
8. (8.) Enzo Maccarinelli
9. (9.) Jamie Moore
10. (10.) Alex Arthur

11. (11.) Rendall Munroe
12. (12.) Ian Napa
13. (13.) Kevin Mitchell
14. (14.) John Duddy (Irish)
15. (15.) Jonathan Thaxton
16. (17.) Bernard Dunne (Irish)
17. (16.) Wayne Elcock
18. (18.) Amir Khan
19. (19.) Gavin Rees
20. (20.) Matt Skelton

21. (21.) Colin Lynes
22. (27.) Ryan Rhodes
23. (NE.) Kell Brook
24. (30.) Paul Appleby
25. (22.) David Barnes
26. (23.) Dean Francis
27. (26.) Bradley Pryce
28. (28.) Martin Lindsay
29. (29.) Darren Barker
30. (24.) Danny Williams

Out - (25.) Kevin McIntyre

Khan, Brook and Mitchell the only survivors.

I wasn't a big boxing fan at the time, how do people think it compares to the top 30 of today?

Interesting. Great top 3.

[Batley18]

First of all, this list really does she the depth of talent that the UK has at the moment.

I think the only person I would disagree with is Martin Murray. He put in a good effort, but he has lost every big fight he has been in. I know a couple of those fights have been pretty close, but does anybody think he would beat Callum Smith who is at 20th?

[Horse]

Not sure when you started doing these Horse but one of the oldest I could find was December 2008, 7 years ago to the month.

The first was made in May 2006.

Khan, Brook and Mitchell the only survivors.

I wasn't a big boxing fan at the time, how do people think it compares to the top 30 of today?

That top 3 is better than the current top 3, but everything else is better now.

[danamba7]

Not sure when you started doing these Horse but one of the oldest I could find was December 2008, 7 years ago to the month.

The first was made in May 2006.

Khan, Brook and Mitchell the only survivors.

I wasn't a big boxing fan at the time, how do people think it compares to the top 30 of today?

That top 3 is better than the current top 3, but everything else is better now.

Except number 7 ;;-)

[Horse]

First of all, this list really does she the depth of talent that the UK has at the moment.

I think the only person I would disagree with is Martin Murray. He put in a good effort, but he has lost every big fight he has been in. I know a couple of those fights have been pretty close, but does anybody think he would beat Callum Smith who is at 20th?

Murray would be a strange choice of opponent for Callum Smith. Abraham is no better and he has the WBO world title.

I think Murray would have a very good chance against Smith. I would not be looking to make that fight if I was Hearn.

[Horse]

Except number 7 ;;-)

On paper Quigg is better than Froch was on the 1st of December 2008. Froch's best win at that time was Brian Magee.

[Batley18]

First of all, this list really does she the depth of talent that the UK has at the moment.

I think the only person I would disagree with is Martin Murray. He put in a good effort, but he has lost every big fight he has been in. I know a couple of those fights have been pretty close, but does anybody think he would beat Callum Smith who is at 20th?

Murray would be a strange choice of opponent for Callum Smith. Abraham is no better and he has the WBO world title.

I think Murray would have a very good chance against Smith. I would not be looking to make that fight if I was Hearn.

I agree that this fight would be unlikely to take place due to Hearn, but if they did fight then I think Smith would win quite convincingly.

[danamba7]

Except number 7 ;;-)

On paper Quigg is better than Froch was on the 1st of December 2008. Froch's best win at that time was Brian Magee.

True. Was literally just before Froch's mad run.

[Horse]

I agree that this fight would be unlikely to take place due to Hearn, but if they did fight then I think Smith would win quite convincingly.

If he could then that would potentially make him a World P4P contender.

Callum Smith is not proven at world level and it's too early for me to assume that he could easily beat world class fighters like Murray.

Hopefully Hearn doesn't mess about and steps him up to world level by the end of next year and we can find out how good he is.