How would you Marciano for a fight with sonny liston?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 30 Jan 2006, 02:12

what would be ur stradegy? how would u train him?

Im interested to hear what people have to say

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 30 Jan 2006, 02:17

Draw Liston onto the front foot and come over the top with the big overhand right. Once inside, pound the body, but once Liston clinches and steps back, don't chase him.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 30 Jan 2006, 02:20

DoubleM wrote:Draw Liston onto the front foot and come over the top with the big overhand right. Once inside, pound the body, but once Liston clinches and steps back, don't chase him.

would u try to have marciano bob and weave more to avoid listons jab? or perhaps stay low in the crouch?

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 30 Jan 2006, 02:36

I'd have Rocky try to lean away from Liston's jab and come over with the counter right hand.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 30 Jan 2006, 08:08

My strategy for Marciano to fight Liston would be to get him to fight someone else instead, cos hed get butchered by Sonny

theone · Post by **theone** » 30 Jan 2006, 09:57

Retire undefeated before he had to fight him.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 30 Jan 2006, 11:10

Listons jab would be a BIG concern. I would have Rocky bob and weave trying to constantly crowd Liston to not give him punching room. The specific combo I would work in the gym would be to try to slip Listons jab bang a left hook to the body and come over the top with a right hand.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 30 Jan 2006, 14:21

thanx for your ridiulous remards devious and theone. btw, liston isnt a god. this fight could defintley go either way. he isnt going to go out there and blow away marciano.

and were talking prime for prime

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 30 Jan 2006, 14:22

it seems a lot of people here think marcianos overhand right will be a big asset in a fight with sonny, and that the main issue will be to avoid sonnys jab.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 30 Jan 2006, 14:48

Marciano was far from a perfect fighter, but Liston was not an elusive target, and posessed at best average hand speed. Marciano stalks Liston, having some problems in the first few rounds, and maybe even hitting the deck. However, as the fight progresses, Liston finds it much harder to deal with the pressure and either gets stopped, or quits on his stool around the 10th round.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 30 Jan 2006, 14:51

The Great John L wrote:Marciano was far from a perfect fighter, but Liston was not an elusive target, and posessed at best average hand speed. Marciano stalks Liston, having some problems in the first few rounds, and maybe even hitting the deck. However, as the fight progresses, Liston finds it much harder to deal with the pressure and either gets stopped, or quits on his stool around the 10th round.

thanx john L, but the question of this thread is "how would u train marciano for a fight with liston" not who would win.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 30 Jan 2006, 15:01

expug wrote:Listons jab would be a BIG concern. I would have Rocky bob and weave trying to constantly crowd Liston to not give him punching room. The specific combo I would work in the gym would be to try to slip Listons jab bang a left hook to the body and come over the top with a right hand.

That would be quite dangerous. It's not a wise idea to slip an orthodox fighter's left jab to the left, trying to hit him with the left hook to the body... Save that for against a southpaw, or on the inside. By slipping to the left and stepping forward, you're putting your head right in the way of his straight right hand.

I would train Rocky in the gym for months working on slipping the jab and coming over with the right, Duran-style. Liston often left his jab trailing. Check out what Duran does to Barkley at the end of round one - that's what'd be happening for Liston.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 30 Jan 2006, 15:07

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
The Great John L wrote:Marciano was far from a perfect fighter, but Liston was not an elusive target, and posessed at best average hand speed. Marciano stalks Liston, having some problems in the first few rounds, and maybe even hitting the deck. However, as the fight progresses, Liston finds it much harder to deal with the pressure and either gets stopped, or quits on his stool around the 10th round.
thanx john L, but the question of this thread is "how would u train marciano for a fight with liston" not who would win.

Yes, of course. I would have him use his natural style and stay low, slip the jab wth his weight on his right foot and then counter with a right to the beltline, followed by a left hook to the chest. He may have trouble landing this combination the first few rounds, but as he gre accustomed to Listons long reach, it would start to land with regularity and cause Sonny a great deal of discomfort.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 30 Jan 2006, 15:28

DoubleM wrote:
expug wrote:Listons jab would be a BIG concern. I would have Rocky bob and weave trying to constantly crowd Liston to not give him punching room. The specific combo I would work in the gym would be to try to slip Listons jab bang a left hook to the body and come over the top with a right hand.
That would be quite dangerous. It's not a wise idea to slip an orthodox fighter's left jab to the left, trying to hit him with the left hook to the body... Save that for against a southpaw, or on the inside. By slipping to the left and stepping forward, you're putting your head right in the way of his straight right hand.

I would train Rocky in the gym for months working on slipping the jab and coming over with the right, Duran-style. Liston often left his jab trailing. Check out what Duran does to Barkley at the end of round one - that's what'd be happening for Liston.

Hell maybe thats why I got hit so damn much. I wish I knew you in the 70s Double m!

coulda saved a few headaches.

theone · Post by **theone** » 30 Jan 2006, 15:30

thanx for your ridiulous remards devious and theone. btw, liston isnt a god. this fight could defintley go either way. he isnt going to go out there and blow away marciano.

Why so rediculous? Liston was bigger, taller,stronger more moblle had a much longer reach and much better boxing skills. My opinion is that Marciano, would be sliced and diced and stopped on cuts early in the fight. I think thats a valid opinion.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 30 Jan 2006, 15:32

expug wrote:
DoubleM wrote:
expug wrote:Listons jab would be a BIG concern. I would have Rocky bob and weave trying to constantly crowd Liston to not give him punching room. The specific combo I would work in the gym would be to try to slip Listons jab bang a left hook to the body and come over the top with a right hand.
That would be quite dangerous. It's not a wise idea to slip an orthodox fighter's left jab to the left, trying to hit him with the left hook to the body... Save that for against a southpaw, or on the inside. By slipping to the left and stepping forward, you're putting your head right in the way of his straight right hand.

I would train Rocky in the gym for months working on slipping the jab and coming over with the right, Duran-style. Liston often left his jab trailing. Check out what Duran does to Barkley at the end of round one - that's what'd be happening for Liston.
Hell maybe thats why I got hit so damn much. I wish I knew you in the 70s Double m! coulda saved a few headaches.

Haha

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 30 Jan 2006, 15:40

theone wrote:
thanx for your ridiulous remards devious and theone. btw, liston isnt a god. this fight could defintley go either way. he isnt going to go out there and blow away marciano.
Why so rediculous? Liston was bigger, taller,stronger more moblle had a much longer reach and much better boxing skills. My opinion is that Marciano, would be sliced and diced and stopped on cuts early in the fight. I think thats a valid opinion.

u cannot use marciano getting stopped on cuts as a valid statement. he was never stopped on cuts in his entire career so i dont think we can use that against him. ezzard who was just as big a cutterpuncher as ali never stopped marciano on cuts.

fact is people hadnt seen rockys fights before charles and walcott fights, so when they see a split nose and badly cut eye like in those fights, they think he was as bad a bleeder as quarry and cooper which was not the case.

in fact, out of rockys 49 fights, only 7 fights did he bleed and a couple were caused by headbuts like the shkor fight.

i have a ring magazine from 1955 stating " rocky isnt what u call a bleeder, if he was, hed have got cut inm most of his fights rather than a few."
'

rocky cut yes especially later in his career when some of his skin was vunerable, but not as nearly as much as some others, and i dont think its fair to pick him getting stopped on cuts in a fantasy matchup.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 30 Jan 2006, 15:46

BB, I really don't think that it's far fetched to say that Liston could have stopped Rocky on cuts. I have a hard time envisioning that outcome, but Sonny was a very good HW and certainly had some power on his shots, so it is possible. Of course, remember all theone is doing is trying to incite your anger. So far, it seems to be working.

theone · Post by **theone** » 30 Jan 2006, 15:53

BB, I really don't think that it's far fetched to say that Liston could have stopped Rocky on cuts. I have a hard time envisioning that outcome, but Sonny was a very good HW and certainly had some power on his shots, so it is possible. Of course, remember all theone is doing is trying to incite your anger. So far, it seems to be working.

Why would I want to rile him or anybody up? I'm not getting personal with him, calling him names or some stupid shit like that. I'm just giving my honest opinion and if that happens to irk some folks, well its not my intention.
To get offended and riled up by opinions oppossed to your own,in a forum like this doesnt make sense. If you cant engage in a civil debate with someone then agree to disagree and move on.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 30 Jan 2006, 16:03

theone wrote:
BB, I really don't think that it's far fetched to say that Liston could have stopped Rocky on cuts. I have a hard time envisioning that outcome, but Sonny was a very good HW and certainly had some power on his shots, so it is possible. Of course, remember all theone is doing is trying to incite your anger. So far, it seems to be working.
Why would I want to rile him or anybody up? I'm not getting personal with him, calling him names or some stupid shit like that. I'm just giving my honest opinion and if that happens to irk some folks, well its not my intention.
To get offended and riled up by opinions oppossed to your own,in a forum like this doesnt make sense. If you cant engage in a civil debate with someone then agree to disagree and move on.

Yes I agree that you did not post any personal attack., however, read the title of the thread. BB was asking posters how they would have trained Marciano for a fight against Liston. You posted a funny rather smart ass response and then followed up with the slice and dice comment. Perhaps you might like trying to post something that addresses the topic. How would you have had Marciano fight Liston?

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 30 Jan 2006, 16:16

The Great John L wrote:
theone wrote:
BB, I really don't think that it's far fetched to say that Liston could have stopped Rocky on cuts. I have a hard time envisioning that outcome, but Sonny was a very good HW and certainly had some power on his shots, so it is possible. Of course, remember all theone is doing is trying to incite your anger. So far, it seems to be working.
Why would I want to rile him or anybody up? I'm not getting personal with him, calling him names or some stupid shit like that. I'm just giving my honest opinion and if that happens to irk some folks, well its not my intention.
To get offended and riled up by opinions oppossed to your own,in a forum like this doesnt make sense. If you cant engage in a civil debate with someone then agree to disagree and move on.
Yes I agree that you did not post any personal attack., however, read the title of the thread. BB was asking posters how they would have trained Marciano for a fight against Liston. You posted a funny rather smart ass response and then followed up with the slice and dice comment. Perhaps you might like trying to post something that addresses the topic. How would you have had Marciano fight Liston?

If you don't like his comments, just ignore them. They aren't offensive or abusive are they? I didn't find them particularly informative, funny or witty but they are probably as valid as most of the responses so far in this thread.

theone · Post by **theone** » 30 Jan 2006, 16:17

Yes I agree that you did not post any personal attack., however, read the title of the thread. BB was asking posters how they would have trained Marciano for a fight against Liston. You posted a funny rather smart ass response

What i said was meant to be funny; a silly way of emphasising that I dont like Marciano's chances at all against Liston, so I woulnt bother to train him for a fight. Brockton responded to my statement saying it was rediculous. I didnt get insulted I just responded giving what I thought were valid reasons why I dont think it would be so rediculous. You seem to be trying to instigate something between us, but me and Brock have been down this road before.

theone · Post by **theone** » 30 Jan 2006, 16:19

I didn't find them particularly informative, funny or witty but they are probably as valid as most of the responses so far in this thread.

Thanks for the support pal!

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 30 Jan 2006, 16:28

theone wrote:You seem to be trying to instigate something between us, but me and Brock have been down this road before.

Yes, you and BB have been down the road before and most of us don't want to have to waste time paging through your exchanges again, so why start this again? You certainly don't need any help in instigating trouble.

theone · Post by **theone** » 30 Jan 2006, 16:33

Yes, you and BB have been down the road before and most of us don't want to have to waste time paging through your exchanges again, so why start this again? You certainly don't need any help in instigating trouble.

Nothing was starting until you started it. We each said what we had to say and that was that. It seems like you began something similliar to what you were supposedly trying to avoid.