GGG vs Jacobs

[zorndeslammes]

I would expect GGG to knock out Jakobs within 5 rounds.
But Jacobs would be one of GGG's best names on his resume.

I'm just tired of the resume talk about GGG. In one year, GGG knocked out Rubio, Murray, Monroe Jr AND won another version of Middleweight title by knocking the tar out of David Lemieux. This all happened from October 2014 to October 2015. In one year, this is what the kid did and people have the nerve to knock him for "his resume". Name another boxer taking on that kind of challenge in a 12 month span? It's hilarious to me how pathetic these arguments against GGG's dominance are.

Then I have to sit here and witness the Roman Gonzalez love fest when one of his fights in 2015 was against a guy with a 38-29-3 record. Give me a break. I haven't heard anyone knock RG for his "resume". Imagine if GGG booked a fight with a guy that barely had a .500 record.

You get the Roman Gonzalez love fest because he consistently moves up in weight and fights the best possible competition in the world, then typically knocks them out. GGG, as good as he is, hasn't beaten the best middleweights in the world, much less has he moved up a weight class or two and demolished the best there whilst fighting 3-4 times a year on average.

[SFW]

That's much closer to fantasy than theory. And I think Golovkin would beat Jacobs and stop him late, so no point trying to claim bias. Fact is Quillin is better than anyone GGG has faced yet, that's undeniable to anyone with sight, and he wiped PQ out in one round.

The gross overestimating of Lemieux, Murray is getting to a sickening point, we are talking about two wholly unspectacular boxers. Lemieux is NOTHING but a slugger and Murray is nothing without his durability and physicality. I wouldn't base any theory on one performance either, not smart. Kinda exposes the agenda, nobody listens after that.

[ikorolev]

That's much closer to fantasy than theory. And I think Golovkin would beat Jacobs and stop him late, so no point trying to claim bias. Fact is Quillin is better than anyone GGG has faced yet, that's undeniable to anyone with sight, and he wiped PQ out in one round.

The gross overestimating of Lemieux, Murray is getting to a sickening point, we are talking about two wholly unspectacular boxers. Lemieux is NOTHING but a slugger and Murray is nothing without his durability and physicality. I wouldn't base any theory on one performance either, not smart. Kinda exposes the agenda, nobody listens after that.

No, Quillin is NOT better than many on Golovkin's resume STARTING WITH ROSADO. If not the cut, Rosado would beat Quillin. Quillin didn't do anything to prove that he is better than Lemieux, Murray, Rubio, etc.

If Lemieux is nothing but a slugger, then Quillin is a worse slugger with a soft chin and Jackobs is a B level fighter with poor defense, glass chin and overrated power.

[zorndeslammes]

"If not for the cut" is the hill many a boxing hill has died on. Cuts are part of boxing, and in the case of Gabe, he has about as much scar tissue as a ICU burn victim. Still though, MW is a lousy division and Quillin is, at worst, at the same level as Lemieux. If that's among GGG's best wins (or outright his #1) then Jacobs is pretty close in terms of overall success already.

[caldo2025]

I would expect GGG to knock out Jakobs within 5 rounds.
But Jacobs would be one of GGG's best names on his resume.

I'm just tired of the resume talk about GGG. In one year, GGG knocked out Rubio, Murray, Monroe Jr AND won another version of Middleweight title by knocking the tar out of David Lemieux. This all happened from October 2014 to October 2015. In one year, this is what the kid did and people have the nerve to knock him for "his resume". Name another boxer taking on that kind of challenge in a 12 month span? It's hilarious to me how pathetic these arguments against GGG's dominance are.

Then I have to sit here and witness the Roman Gonzalez love fest when one of his fights in 2015 was against a guy with a 38-29-3 record. Give me a break. I haven't heard anyone knock RG for his "resume". Imagine if GGG booked a fight with a guy that barely had a .500 record.

You get the Roman Gonzalez love fest because he consistently moves up in weight and fights the best possible competition in the world, then typically knocks them out. GGG, as good as he is, hasn't beaten the best middleweights in the world, much less has he moved up a weight class or two and demolished the best there whilst fighting 3-4 times a year on average.

Roman Gonzalez's last 3 opponents have a combined record of 125-41. GGG's last 3 opponents have a combined record of 82-4 (one of those opponents was a Middleweight Champion).

RG fights around 112lbs and has been fighting at this weight for 2 years. The only time RG stepped up to 115lbs to fight was against Leon who was sporting a fabulous 38-29-3 record. Wow. Since then he's fought his last two fights again at 111.

Plus, let's be fair here. A boxer stepping up from 107 to 111 is not even close to the same as a boxer bumping up from 160 to 168 or low 170's.

This site is full of critics that feel that boxers must move up to a different weight class. Why? GGG is a true middleweight and he's on the back 9 of his career. His career goal is to be the unified Middleweight Champion of the World. You can't achieve that goal by leaving the weight class.

We are in a boxing era where fighters are sucking down 30-40 pounds from their walking around weight to fight smaller guys. Canelo walks around at 180 pounds or more but says that he's a welterweight. Those are the boxers that need to step up in weight. Guys like GGG are professionals that keep their weight down in between fights and is able to use training camp for what it's intended to be used for. That's coming up with game plan schemes and improving in areas that need improvement.

GGG is a middleweight and he should be measured on what he's doing in the division. Not for not wanting to abandon his goals to take on a super middleweight who's calling him out or a light heavy. GGG stepping up in weight to fight Ward would be like Roman Gonzalez stepping up to fight Lomachenko or Walters. Why aren't people criticizing RG for not taking on these fighters?

[ikorolev]

"If not for the cut" is the hill many a boxing hill has died on. Cuts are part of boxing, and in the case of Gabe, he has about as much scar tissue as a ICU burn victim. Still though, MW is a lousy division and Quillin is, at worst, at the same level as Lemieux. If that's among GGG's best wins (or outright his #1) then Jacobs is pretty close in terms of overall success already.

Except Jacobs has ONE win over a top 10 MW, while Golovkin has about 7-8 of those. Besides, the only reason why people would think that Quillin is on the same level as Lemieux or Murray is him carefully avoiding opponents who could fight back. Rosado, Lee and Jacobs proved to me that Quillin is not on the same level as Lemieux or Murray.

[zorndeslammes]

Roman Gonzalez's last 3 opponents

Stop. Roman's been relevant for a lot longer than this year.

RG fights around 112lbs and has been fighting at this weight for 2 years.

In that time, he fought arguably the two best men in the weight class other than him and several top 10 fighters The only top guy at 112 he hasn't faced is someone he beat at 108. And then there's his career prior to flyweight, which might be among the greatest of any sub-bantam in history.

Plus, let's be fair here. A boxer stepping up from 107 to 111 is not even close to the same as a boxer bumping up from 160 to 168 or low 170's.

A) Roman started at 105, won the world title, became a clear #1, and made multiple defenses.

B) 168 is as fake a weight class as 108.

This site is full of critics that feel that boxers must move up to a different weight class. Why?

No one argued that GGG has to move up. But if you want to compare Golovkin's career to Gonzalez's, then you have to deal with the fact that one of them was #1 at 3 weight classes and the other has possibly never been #1 at the single weight class he's competed at.

GGG is a middleweight and he should be measured on what he's doing in the division. Not for not wanting to abandon his goals to take on a super middleweight who's calling him out or a light heavy. GGG stepping up in weight to fight Ward would be like Roman Gonzalez stepping up to fight Lomachenko or Walters. Why aren't people criticizing RG for not taking on these fighters?

If Roman Gonzalez won a featherweight title, it would be historic. No minimumweight champion has ever managed to win a world title above super flyweight, much less three weight classes above that. It would be the equivalent of Floyd Mayweather beating Froch or DeGale. GGG is a long way from doing anything comparable.

[zorndeslammes]

"If not for the cut" is the hill many a boxing hill has died on. Cuts are part of boxing, and in the case of Gabe, he has about as much scar tissue as a ICU burn victim. Still though, MW is a lousy division and Quillin is, at worst, at the same level as Lemieux. If that's among GGG's best wins (or outright his #1) then Jacobs is pretty close in terms of overall success already.

Except Jacobs has ONE win over a top 10 MW, while Golovkin has about 7-8 of those. Besides, the only reason why people would think that Quillin is on the same level as Lemieux or Murray is him carefully avoiding opponents who could fight back. Rosado, Lee and Jacobs proved to me that Quillin is not on the same level as Lemieux or Murray.

You're right. David Lemieux clearly took on and destroyed all comers on his way to such impressive stardom. Same with Murray, because lord knows Khomitsky and Spada were such elite talents when he had less than enthralling performances with them.

This is all a broken record. We had this discussion before when I said Lemieux was a no-hoper, and before that when I called everyone at MW garbage. I just assume you're a bad judge of talent.

[crusader]

Jacobs has fought only two top ten opponents and one of them KTFO'd him. The win over Quillin is probably better than any of GGG's results, but on the whole GGG is clearly more accomplished in my opinion.

Jacobs' next best victim after Quillin is probably Sergio Mora (who barely squeaked by Abe Han in his previous fight but still dropped Jacobs with one shot) or Caleb Truax.

[tiny_acres]

I would expect GGG to knock out Jakobs within 5 rounds.
But Jacobs would be one of GGG's best names on his resume.

I'm just tired of the resume talk about GGG. In one year, GGG knocked out Rubio, Murray, Monroe Jr AND won another version of Middleweight title by knocking the tar out of David Lemieux. This all happened from October 2014 to October 2015. In one year, this is what the kid did and people have the nerve to knock him for "his resume". Name another boxer taking on that kind of challenge in a 12 month span? It's hilarious to me how pathetic these arguments against GGG's dominance are.

Then I have to sit here and witness the Roman Gonzalez love fest when one of his fights in 2015 was against a guy with a 38-29-3 record. Give me a break. I haven't heard anyone knock RG for his "resume". Imagine if GGG booked a fight with a guy that barely had a .500 record.

There is not a boxer on the planet that had a tougher schedule than GGG the last couple of years but KC can keep on knocking "little G" with his pathetic arguments. Floyd never took on 4 fights like that in a 12 month stretch. Laughable. All of it is Laughable.

I am not trying to insult GGG.The middleweight division is not that deep.
Jacobs would be a nice feather in GGG's cap.
I do not blame GGG for the next best middleweight Canelo not wanting to fight him.GGG is just head and shoulders above the rest of the division.No insult intended.

Chill out you will live longer

[zorndeslammes]

Jacobs has fought only two top ten opponents and one of them KTFO'd him. The win over Quillin is probably better than any of GGG's results, but on the whole GGG is clearly more accomplished in my opinion.

Jacobs' next best victim after Quillin is probably Sergio Mora (who barely squeaked by Abe Han in his previous fight but still dropped Jacobs with one shot) or Caleb Truax.

Ishe Smith (his name returns!) would easily be in that convo too given that he went on to claim a strap at 154 after their fight. None of these are the greatest fighters in the world - absolutely not - but isn't it asinine to discount Jacobs for losing to Pirog when Lemieux got knocked the hell out by Marco Antonio Rubio?

Also: returning to an argument I've made many times; people who think middle of the road super welterweights couldn't contend at middleweight are lying to themselves. Ishe gave Jacobs fits when they fought years ago. You're playing yourself if you think that Erislandy Lara couldn't seriously challenge/beat Jacobs, Lee, Geale, etc. Maybe when Eubank Jr., Murata, and so on get some more work under them, we can discuss MW being a better division, but we ain't there yet. Not by a long shot.

[crusader]

Smith was blown up at 160 (though he still managed to hurt Jacobs twice) and in journeyman mode, losing his next fight to Fernando Guerrero and having lost to Sechew Powell and Joel Julio in 2007 and 2008, though I guess that doesn't really preclude him from being one of the best few fighters Jacobs beat.

I think the losses Jacobs and Lemieux suffered should be considered in evaluating them as fighters, though in my view they both clearly reestablished themselves and reached higher points than they did prior to being stopped. Jacobs reached his career peak in impressive fashion, and a first round blowout of Quillin is something that stands out to me more than any one GGG win, but I think it's a stretch to say that he's 'pretty close' to GGG's success overall when he's only beaten one top ten fighter and the other one he faced heavily stopped him in five rounds. People often criticize GGG's opposition, but Jacobs's is clearly worse in my view and his record is filled with names like Keenan Collins, with the opposition he beat up until 2014 being mediocre at best.

[zorndeslammes]

Smith was blown up at 160 (though he still managed to hurt Jacobs twice) and in journeyman mode, losing his next fight to Fernando Guerrero and having lost to Sechew Powell and Joel Julio in 2007 and 2008, though I guess that doesn't really preclude him from being one of the best few fighters Jacobs beat.

Exactly. I'm not pretending Jacobs didn't struggle a lot with Smith either. The total opposite. The issue I have is that I look at GGG's record, and I don't even know if the guys he's fighting are any better than Ishe. I think most of the notable ones may actually be worse. The collection of belts he's gathered looks very impressive, but how they were obtained and what kind of champions he earned them from is a very different discussion.

Jacobs' reached his career peak in impressive fashion, and a first round blowout of Quillin is something that stands out to me more than any one GGG win, but I think it's a stretch to say that he's 'pretty close' to GGG's success overall when he's only beaten one top ten fighter and the other one he faced heavily stopped him in five rounds.

The key difference here between me and you on this, I suppose, is that I consider a "top ten ranking" at middleweight to be generally valueless. I have ascribed value to it before; I cannot say I never did. I have been vociferous and consistent for some time though in arguing that it is not of any intrinsic value now not only here and elsewhere. If one sits down and holistically looks at not just the Ws and Ls on the Boxrec, but pays attention to whom the fights are against and how they go, I believe and would argue that a clear pattern emerges showing that the division seriously lacks any depth beyond GGG (and perhaps Jacobs now). Are wins over Fletcher, Lorenzo (who was once lauded...a long time ago, but it happened!), Walker, etc. any worse than Ishida, Rosado, and Adama? Really? Are they?

Don't just give me the W/Ls. Show me you know something beyond the pale. Most people straight up can't do that.

[crusader]

I'm using 'top ten' because it encompasses my views about the merits of the fighters in question; to me someone has to fight their way into the top ten based on merit and it's not as if they can grab a spot by beating a mediocre, cherry-picked opponent, as is often the case with trinkets. If you don't attach any value to the term than I suspect that you have a different conception of it and look at it more like I look at titles.

I would say that Ishida, Rosado, and Adama are significantly better than Fletcher, Lorenzo, and Walker. Ishida beat someone who is better than anyone the Jacobs' trio defeated, he fought respectably against Danny's conqueror Pirog and despite clearly losing didn't look remotely in trouble, and until GGG flattened him he'd never been stopped despite facing solid opposition. Rosado is a limited but tough guy who has generally been very competitive in losing to good fighters, kept that up even after the GGG loss, and he was reaching his peak when he fought GGG, while Adama gave Daniel Geale a competitive fight in a title bout (much more competitive than Fletcher was against a worse version of Geale), became one of the few fighters to stop durable Marcus Upshaw, and in general looked to me like a better fighter than Fletcher, Lorenzo, and Walker were at the time they fought Jacobs. As for those three, Fletcher has shown a terrible chin and couldn't last two rounds with light-hitting Billy Joe Saunders less than two years before the Jacobs fight, got his shot by only squeaking past fringe-contender Bursak, and then was dropped and drubbed by Geale. Lorenzo showed a solid chin up until the fight with Jacobs and at one point was good test, but he hasn't had a meaningful win in years or even a Gabe Rosado competitive and brave in defeat type of loss, while Michael Walker at his peak failed to beat a version of Antwuan Echols that hadn't won in 4 years, has gone about 0-20 since he started fighting decent opponents, and unlike Rosado, Ishida, and Adama was never even a fringe-conteder.

There are many levels in boxing and even though GGG hasn't fought a stellar list of opponents, and regardless of the quality of the MW division, I think that overall he's clearly fought and beaten better opposition than Jacobs has, and of course he wasn't brutally stopped (or dropped a few months ago by one shot from Sergio Mora) like Jacobs was. Incidentally, going over records I notice that the crappy opponent GGG won an interim title off years back faced Jacobs only last year, though with a bunch more losses to his name.

[zorndeslammes]

I'm using 'top ten' because it encompasses my views about the merits of the fighters in question; in my view someone has to fight their way into the top ten based on merit and it's not as if they can grab a spot by beating a mediocre, cherry-picked opponent, as is often the case with trinkets. If you don't attach any value to the term than I suspect that you have a different conception of it and look at it more like I look at titles.

I don't believe in linearity for ranking positions or anything like that. Plainly put, I think the separation between #3 and #60 at middleweight is a matter of inches, whereas there's much more pronounced separations in other weight classes with deeper talent pools. At some point the talent gap should override eliminate "styles make fights". I don't think Leonard Bundu would win 3 rounds of 8 from any legitimate top 20 welterweight. I have seen Sergey Khomitsky (a similarly aged fighter) win 3 rounds of 8 from a top 20 middleweight.

I would say that wins over Ishida, Rosado, and Adama are significantly more impressive than wins over Fletcher, Lorenzo, and Walker. Ishida beat someone who is better than anyone the Jacobs' trio defeated, he fought respectably against Danny's conqueror Pirog and despite clearly losing didn't look remotely in trouble, and until GGG flattened him he'd never been stopped despite facing solid opposition. Rosado is a limited but tough guy who has generally been very competitive in losing to good fighters and he was reaching his peak when he fought GGG, while Adama gave Daniel Geale a competitive fight in a title bout (much more competitive than Fletcher was), stopped (an admittedly faded) Karmazin, became one of the few fighters to stop durable Marcus Upshaw, and in general looked to me like a better fighter than Fletcher, Lorenzo, and Walker were at the time they fought Jacobs. As for those three, Fletcher has shown a terrible chin and couldn't last two rounds with average-hitting Billy Joe Saunders less than two years before the Jacobs fight, barely squeaked by Bursak, and then was drubbed by Geale. Lorenzo showed a solid chin up until the fight with Jacobs and years ago at one point was good test, but he hasn't had a meaningful win in years or even a Gabe Rosado competitive in defeat type of loss, while Michael Walker--even at his peak--failed to beat a version of Antwuan Echols that hadn't won in 4 years and has gone about 0-20 since he started fighting decent opponents.

To me, Ishida is a guy who was in the right place at the right time. His best skill otherwise is durability, and his win over Kirkland is of such suspect value to me at this point that I can't seriously suggest it means much of anything. When I pointed out Walker (who had a really good firefight with Echols before Echols was totally spent), he's to me no different an opponent at that stage as would be Ishida.

Adama is, on paper, a reasonably decent fighter. He gave Danny Geale a tough fight. Geale beat Felix Sturm when that meant something, Sebastian Sylvester, Anthony Mundine, Karmazin, Garth Wood, and Eromosele Albert (who is a tough guy and gets little respect). Geale represents a serviceable, consistent top 5-7 guy at MW for years. Miguel Cotto, argued to be washed up after the Austin Trout fight three years prior, blew through Danny Geale like he was barely there.

Rosado made Quillin work hard and should have beaten J'Leon Love, who has developed into nothing of relevance. He otherwise beat fringe contending ex-super welterweights and welterweights. That he's brought up at all given his status as a blown up gate keeper from a weight class prior (much like Ishida) kinda proves my point of middleweight being trash.

[ikorolev]

If middleweight was a weak division, we would see an influx of big LMWs moving up and taking top spots. Why don't we see that? Why have Cotto and Canelo insisted on catch weights? Why did Andrade decline a title fight against Korobov? Why is Lara just talking and not moving up? Why is Vanes? Why is Angulo fighting bums?

The MW division is no worse than LMW or SMW.

[zorndeslammes]

If middleweight was a weak division, we would see an influx of big LMWs moving up and taking top spots. Why don't we see that?

For the same exact reason we had when this discussion came up the previous two times: because the names that can make fighters money weren't at 160 lbs. Martin Murray wasn't going to be anyone's cashout dream. Cotto, Canelo, Pacquiao, and Mayweather were.

In case you haven't noticed, the new linear middleweight champion of the world is Canelo Alvarez, a former 154lb titlist. He was immediately preceded by Miguel Cotto, a former 140, 147, and 154lb titlist. He was immediately preceded by Sergio Martinez, a former 154lb titlist. The situation is going to be different now because Mayweather is gone.

Why have Cotto and Canelo insisted on catch weights?

Because they want an advantage and as the A-side will get it if anyone wants to make money.

Why did Andrade decline a title fight against Korobov?

Ask his lawyer.

Why is Lara just talking and not moving up?

Because he is allowed to do so.

Why is Vanes?

Same reason. Vanes might get himself a title fight at 154 soon anyhow.

Why is Angulo fighting bums?

Because Angulo is obviously washed up.

The MW division is no worse than LMW or SMW.

Boxrec's #5 Middleweight is Jorge Sebastian Heiland. I would bet everything that either Charlo (ranked #4 or #5 at MW) would make him look totally basic. Jermall would probably starch him.

[ikorolev]

Wow, so many excuses on why none of top LMWs is in a hurry to grab titles in the "weak" MW division.

Boxrec ratings are not always accurate and Heiland may be an example of that. However, that roided to his gills version of Heiland which just walked through Macklin could do the same with Charlos.

[crusader]

I'm using 'top ten' because it encompasses my views about the merits of the fighters in question; in my view someone has to fight their way into the top ten based on merit and it's not as if they can grab a spot by beating a mediocre, cherry-picked opponent, as is often the case with trinkets. If you don't attach any value to the term than I suspect that you have a different conception of it and look at it more like I look at titles.

I don't believe in linearity for ranking positions or anything like that. Plainly put, I think the separation between #3 and #60 at middleweight is a matter of inches, whereas there's much more pronounced separations in other weight classes with deeper talent pools. At some point the talent gap should override eliminate "styles make fights". I don't think Leonard Bundu would win 3 rounds of 8 from any legitimate top 20 welterweight. I have seen Sergey Khomitsky (a similarly aged fighter) win 3 rounds of 8 from a top 20 middleweight.

I would say that wins over Ishida, Rosado, and Adama are significantly more impressive than wins over Fletcher, Lorenzo, and Walker. Ishida beat someone who is better than anyone the Jacobs' trio defeated, he fought respectably against Danny's conqueror Pirog and despite clearly losing didn't look remotely in trouble, and until GGG flattened him he'd never been stopped despite facing solid opposition. Rosado is a limited but tough guy who has generally been very competitive in losing to good fighters and he was reaching his peak when he fought GGG, while Adama gave Daniel Geale a competitive fight in a title bout (much more competitive than Fletcher was), stopped (an admittedly faded) Karmazin, became one of the few fighters to stop durable Marcus Upshaw, and in general looked to me like a better fighter than Fletcher, Lorenzo, and Walker were at the time they fought Jacobs. As for those three, Fletcher has shown a terrible chin and couldn't last two rounds with average-hitting Billy Joe Saunders less than two years before the Jacobs fight, barely squeaked by Bursak, and then was drubbed by Geale. Lorenzo showed a solid chin up until the fight with Jacobs and years ago at one point was good test, but he hasn't had a meaningful win in years or even a Gabe Rosado competitive in defeat type of loss, while Michael Walker--even at his peak--failed to beat a version of Antwuan Echols that hadn't won in 4 years and has gone about 0-20 since he started fighting decent opponents.

To me, Ishida is a guy who was in the right place at the right time. His best skill otherwise is durability, and his win over Kirkland is of such suspect value to me at this point that I can't seriously suggest it means much of anything. When I pointed out Walker (who had a really good firefight with Echols before Echols was totally spent), he's to me no different an opponent at that stage as would be Ishida.

Adama is, on paper, a reasonably decent fighter. He gave Danny Geale a tough fight. Geale beat Felix Sturm when that meant something, Sebastian Sylvester, Anthony Mundine, Karmazin, Garth Wood, and Eromosele Albert (who is a tough guy and gets little respect). Geale represents a serviceable, consistent top 5-7 guy at MW for years. Miguel Cotto, argued to be washed up after the Austin Trout fight three years prior, blew through Danny Geale like he was barely there.

Rosado made Quillin work hard and should have beaten J'Leon Love, who has developed into nothing of relevance. He otherwise beat fringe contending ex-super welterweights and welterweights. That he's brought up at all given his status as a blown up gate keeper from a weight class prior (much like Ishida) kinda proves my point of middleweight being trash.

I don't believe in linearity either, but I think there are more pronounced gaps throughout the #3 to #60 range than you do and overall I think there are clear gaps between GGG's opposition and Jacobs'. Mora, Truax, Fletcher, and Smith--Jacob's best opponents apart from Quillin--were struggling with people like Abraham Han, getting blown out in two by Billy Joe Saunders, and drawing with journeymen like Ossie Duran not long before Jacobs faced them, and these types of showings and the general form they've showed me leading up to and after their bouts with Jacobs has led me to rank them comfortably beneath people like Murray, Geale, Lemieux, and Macklin, and probably on the same level as someone like Rosado. In fact, looking at the opposition Jacobs has beaten for the sake of this discussion has made me realize just how mediocre it's been for the most part, as it's pretty much all Keenan Collins scrubs until 2014 (though he still managed to fit in Milton Nunez in 2014), and even since that point it's largely been middling guys like Fletcher, Truax, and Mora--maybe it was the cancer, or the brutal KO loss, or both, but Danny seemed to be matched quite protectively.

As for the more specific comparisons, I don't have much more to add to my previous post, but I will say that I fail to see how Ishida and Walker are essentially the same level of fighter. Walker has beaten no one notable, was dominated by David Lopez two fights before facing Jacobs, and since losing to Danny and consistently facing people who aren't total scrubs has gone 0-17-1. He's largely been a pushover for any half-decent opponent he's faced (and we're talking guys like Andy Kolle and not Pirog or Paul Williams), hasn't sprung an upset like Ishida has, and hasn't even produced something similar to Ishida winning some rounds (I gave him 3) against Pirog. I have little doubt that Ishida was a better fighter and would've beaten Walker had the versions of them who respectively fought GGG and Jacobs squared off, though we'll never know for sure.

[zorndeslammes]

Wow, so many excuses on why none of top LMWs is in a hurry to grab titles in the "weak" MW division.

There are no excuses. The current and preceding two linear middleweight champions are former welterweight/junior middleweights. Andy Lee came back to middleweight from 154 because opportunity knocked; no other reason. He won himself a belt and managed to defend it successfully against full size middleweights. As far as the rest of your argument goes, there's no rush to fight bigger men if there is no money to do so and significantly better money fighting smaller people. This isn't brain surgery. No different than asking why people have kept rushing to fight at welterweight for the last 15 years. It wasn't because it has been a historically weak division, it's because Mayweather and De La Hoya represented career payday opportunities.

Boxrec ratings are not always accurate and Heiland may be an example of that. However, that roided to his gills version of Heiland which just walked through Macklin could do the same with Charlos.

Of course.

[Counter-puncher]

I don't care if ggg hasn't beaten anyone of Quillins calibre. He'd open a huge industrial-sized keg of hammerfuck on Quillin. Same for Jacobs, its academic to me.

[tiny_acres]

I don't care if ggg hasn't beaten anyone of Quillins calibre. He'd open a huge industrial-sized keg of hammerfuck on Quillin. Same for Jacobs, its academic to me.

I don't think too many would argue the point.
The best argument that can be made is Jacobs would ve an acceptable opponent

[zorndeslammes]

Truax, Fletcher, and Smith--Jacob's best opponents apart from Quillin--were struggling with people like Abraham Han, getting blown out in two by Billy Joe Saunders, and drawing with journeymen like Ossie Duran not long before Jacobs faced them, and these types of showings and the general form they've showed me leading up to and after their bouts with Jacobs has led me to rank them comfortably beneath people like Murray, Geale, Lemieux, and Macklin, and probably on the same level as someone like Rosado.

Let's focus on Ossie Duran for a moment. Tough luck losses to Khurtsidze, Guerrero, and Gonzalez, beat failed prospect Latif Mundy, beat Matt Vanda, draws with Albert, close loss to Lopez. Only bad looking loss in his career as a tough, skilled journeyman was Matt Korobov via body shot. Otherwise, here's a guy fighting top 25/50 level comp and being pretty even there. He draws with Truax. The suggestion to me isn't "Truax is terrible, he couldn't beat Ossie Duran!," the suggestion is "Caleb Truax is at the same level as all the rest of these guys." And if Caleb Truax is, per the Don George, Derek Ennis, Kolle, Sigmon, etc fights, a "top 20 middleweight", then? how should I weigh his being #19 or #22 or what have you versus #40 or #50 when that tier contains Ossie Duran or Gabriel Rosado?

You bring up Abie Han; would it surprise you in the least if Han (or Fernando Guerrero, for that matter) managed to beat Sam Soliman? Or Willie Monroe Jr.? I doubt you could give me something you felt was definitive. I know I sure couldn't.

Saunders I'm not really including in this because he's really just a prospect at this stage and hasn't had the repeated moments in the limelight to use as a comparison. If Lee lights him up, then he joins the rest of the pack. If he dominates Lee, he goes right to the top along with Jacobs behind GGG.

[Butterbean]

I would expect GGG to knock out Jakobs within 5 rounds.
But Jacobs would be one of GGG's best names on his resume.

I'm just tired of the resume talk about GGG. In one year, GGG knocked out Rubio, Murray, Monroe Jr AND won another version of Middleweight title by knocking the tar out of David Lemieux. This all happened from October 2014 to October 2015. In one year, this is what the kid did and people have the nerve to knock him for "his resume". Name another boxer taking on that kind of challenge in a 12 month span? It's hilarious to me how pathetic these arguments against GGG's dominance are.

Then I have to sit here and witness the Roman Gonzalez love fest when one of his fights in 2015 was against a guy with a 38-29-3 record. Give me a break. I haven't heard anyone knock RG for his "resume". Imagine if GGG booked a fight with a guy that barely had a .500 record.

You get the Roman Gonzalez love fest because he consistently moves up in weight and fights the best possible competition in the world, then typically knocks them out. GGG, as good as he is, hasn't beaten the best middleweights in the world, much less has he moved up a weight class or two and demolished the best there whilst fighting 3-4 times a year on average.

name the better ones he hasnt faced ? please ?

[Butterbean]

Because they want an advantage and as the A-side will get it if anyone wants to make money.

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