Jack Blackburn vs Tony Canzoneri

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 28 Jan 2006, 02:12

Who do u take in this great lightweight matchup?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 30 Jan 2006, 20:22

anyone?...........anyone?...................frye..................frye....................frye

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 30 Jan 2006, 21:17

My initial inclination is to go with Canzoneri by decision, as overall he beat more top fighters than Blackburn. Still, I have to wonder about the big height and reach advantage of Blackburn.

Do you know if Canzoneri fought anyone as tall as Blackburn ? In 175 fights I'd have to think he did, but would like to know who.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 30 Jan 2006, 21:33

Seamus wrote:My initial inclination is to go with Canzoneri by decision, as overall he beat more top fighters than Blackburn. Still, I have to wonder about the big height and reach advantage of Blackburn.

Do you know if Canzoneri fought anyone as tall as Blackburn ? In 175 fights I'd have to think he did, but would like to know who.

well blackburn beat langford, and dave holly. i wouldnt say canzoneri beat greater fighters. blackburn also beat some ther very good fighters most people dont know about. blackburn was highly avoided by good and bigger fighters during his era

ill check up on canzoneri

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 30 Jan 2006, 23:35

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
Seamus wrote:My initial inclination is to go with Canzoneri by decision, as overall he beat more top fighters than Blackburn. Still, I have to wonder about the big height and reach advantage of Blackburn.

Do you know if Canzoneri fought anyone as tall as Blackburn ? In 175 fights I'd have to think he did, but would like to know who.

well blackburn beat langford, and dave holly. i wouldnt say canzoneri beat greater fighters. blackburn also beat some ther very good fighters most people dont know about. blackburn was highly avoided by good and bigger fighters during his era

Yeah, but don't forget that he beat a very green Langford. As soon as Sam started to get some experience he started to get the better of Blackburn.

Plus he fought the taller, rangier Jimmy McLarnin, whom he beat and lost to. Add hall of famers like Kid Chocolate, Jack Kid Berg, Lou Ambers and Billy Petrolle to his resume.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 30 Jan 2006, 23:43

blackburn was still giving langford even fight in there last fight when langford was in his welterweight prime. dont forget blackburn was smaller than sam. blackburn only lost twice in his prime, to heavier langford and to the much heavier phildelphia jack.

a gans-blackburn title bout would have happened in 1908 or sometime after but blackburn went to jail for manslaughter. too bad that would have been one of the best fights of all time, too light-H greats in there prime. i would have favored gans in a close fight. gans fought him twice earlier, the first time blackburn was green and the 2nd bout i think gans got a little better of it though im not sure. it was a newspaper draw.

dave holly was a great fighter highly underated lightweight and langford got the better of the series with him.

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 30 Jan 2006, 23:51

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:blackburn was still giving langford even fight in there last fight when langford was in his welterweight prime. dont forget blackburn was smaller than sam. blackburn only lost twice in his prime, to heavier langford and to the much heavier phildelphia jack.

a gans-blackburn title bout would have happened in 1908 or sometime after but blackburn went to jail for manslaughter. too bad that would have been one of the best fights of all time, too light-H greats in there prime. i would have favored gans in a close fight. gans fought him twice earlier, the first time blackburn was green and the 2nd bout i think gans got a little better of it though im not sure. it was a newspaper draw.

dave holly was a great fighter highly underated lightweight and langford got the better of the series with him.

Good research my man! BUT...though Jack was still competitive with Sam later on, Langford was still the better man in those fights. Does your research show otherwise?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 30 Jan 2006, 23:57

ill have to check, i know sam won one of there fights. the last fight is recorded as a draw, but i believe i read somewhere once that said jack got the better of the last fight. i could be wrong. I will check. barry maybe u can help me out.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 31 Jan 2006, 00:29

I wouldn't exactly call Langford green the first time he met Blackburn. He was coming off a 15 rd decision victory over Joe Gans, which is nothing to sneeze at.

Canzoneri and Blackburn both beat some good fighters. Canzoneri just beat more of them.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 31 Jan 2006, 01:18

After checking Canzoneri's opponents, I couldn't find any who were 5-10 (only looked at those with decent records) but I found a few who were 5-9

Eddie Mack 55-4-5 ( Canzoneri WTKO 8)
Jackie Kid Berg 74-4-5 (Berg WSD10)
Jackie Kid Berg 88-4-5 (Canzoneri WKO3)
Jackie Kid Berg 94-5-5 (Canzoneri WUD15)
Billy Hogan 33-11-7 (Canzoneri WKO4)

dnahar32 · Post by **dnahar32** » 31 Jan 2006, 02:04

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
Seamus wrote:My initial inclination is to go with Canzoneri by decision, as overall he beat more top fighters than Blackburn. Still, I have to wonder about the big height and reach advantage of Blackburn.

Do you know if Canzoneri fought anyone as tall as Blackburn ? In 175 fights I'd have to think he did, but would like to know who.

well blackburn beat langford, and dave holly. i wouldnt say canzoneri beat greater fighters. blackburn also beat some ther very good fighters most people dont know about. blackburn was highly avoided by good and bigger fighters during his era

ill check up on canzoneri

BB,
If your premise is how a Canzoneri-Blackburn fight would go, then you have to compare what Blackburn did at 135 pounds. Did he make 135 pounds for either the Langford or Holly fight you mention? I find it unlikely, but I could be wrong. If he didn't make it, the argument then becomes who's better p4p and that's not what you asked. For Canzoneri, we have established give and take fights with Barney Ross, Lou Ambers, etc. at lightweight. Blackburn may be classified as a lightweight, but considering the 5-10 height, I would have to see weights to where he actually made the lightweight limit (133 or 135 pounds) and in how many fights he was able to make it to compare him as a lightweight.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 31 Jan 2006, 02:45

Hell,I'd like to , but I dont know a damn thing about Blackburn other than he went away for killin someone and he trained Joe Louis. Looks like he had a nice record though.

dnahar32 · Post by **dnahar32** » 31 Jan 2006, 02:46

Decagon wrote:Shit, come on! I thought you guys knew something about boxing. Write something specific about why you'd pick one fighter over another.

Decagon, I am unsure about Blackburn and his lightweight exploits. I have heard about who he he has beat, but don't know if he was a lightweight or near that weight when he did it. Even Brockton is quoting fights that seem to be over the weight matches. How can one make a valid comparison without knowing if a given fighter fought at that weight?
Would you compare Duran at lightweight based on his middleweight win over Iran Barkley? Some perspective is needed.

I know enough about boxing to know that I can't pick a fight if I'm not sure when and against who the given fighter fought at that weight class. If you know more, by all means please make a pick or post some Blackburn info as I'm curious to learn.

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 31 Jan 2006, 07:27

bb-what sources have you read on jack blackburn?i've heard you say you have him top 5 lightweight,what was his style?which style gave him trouble?share some fight reports of the man so we can better judge him.

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 31 Jan 2006, 13:21

anything?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 31 Jan 2006, 21:07

Decagon wrote:This is kind of typical of the forum, in general. I don't see why you can rank Blackburn #5 at lightweight, when you can't give a good argument why he'd beat Tony Canzoneri.

hold ur horses i will post something about blackburn later. im too lazy and tired right now, just got out of a boring 3 hr class!

o and btw, i never said blackburn would beat canzoneri. i simply asked other people what there opinions were

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 01 Feb 2006, 02:46

Decagon wrote:Here's a lightweight list you posted before:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:1. roberto duran
2. joe gans
3. benny leonard
4. henry armstrong
5.. Jack Blackburn
6.. Julio Cesar Chavez
7. Pernell Whitaker
8. Ike Williams
9.. Tony Canzoneri
10. Lou Ambers
11. George Kid Lavigne
12. Barney Ross
13. Old Bones Brown
14. Carlos Ortiz
15. Floyd Mayweather
16 Battling Nelson
17 Sammy Mandell
18 Jock Mcaulife
19. oscar de la hoya
20. bob montgomery
21. Beau Jack
22. Alexis Arguello- he didnt fight much at lightweight, he ranks high at super feather
23. hector camacho
24 Sam Angott
25. Frank Erne
Please explain why you rank Blackburn above Canzoneri if you don't think he could beat him?

He might think Blackburn would beat more guys than Canzoneri would.

But anyway, since when did lists have to be based just on head-to-head ability? Accomplishments come into it, too.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 01 Feb 2006, 02:58

Decagon wrote:But Blackburn didn't accomplish as much, because he was in jail.

That's not the point. I was looking at your flawed logic.