Fury V Joshua - who wins and how

[jamesmcdonnell]

Punching hard is easy enough, landing them is completely different. If Fury fights like he did against Vlad he is very tough to get hold of. At this level the jab is crucial. I think this was the biggest lesson Joshua learnt is that he needs to set up his attacks with the jab as he won't be able to walk through opponents and unload at this level.

Bear in mind, he landed almost nothing himself in that fight, and Joshua is nowhere near as hesitant as Wlad. Wlad could not, or would not pull the trigger. Partly age, partly demeanour, partly Tyson's tactics.

Tyson could fight like that again and lose on points against Joshua.

[keithmoonhangover]

Punching hard is easy enough, landing them is completely different. If Fury fights like he did against Vlad he is very tough to get hold of. At this level the jab is crucial. I think this was the biggest lesson Joshua learnt is that he needs to set up his attacks with the jab as he won't be able to walk through opponents and unload at this level.

Bear in mind, he landed almost nothing himself in that fight, and Joshua is nowhere near as hesitant as Wlad. Wlad could not, or would not pull the trigger. Partly age, partly demeanour, partly Tyson's tactics.

Tyson could fight like that again and lose on points against Joshua.

Spot on....... again.

[lillywhite14]

Before the Whyte fight I would have said that it would have been close, but that fight really did show how far AJ is away from being a top heavyweight. It is the head movement that really surprised me. Watching the illusive Fury against Klitschko and then seeing the static AJ against Whyte really did show the difference. Fury was so hard to hit, and although it may be true that Joshua's power could trouble him.....he may not find the chance to land.

It's worth pointing out that Fury was not always dificult to hit. He was actually pretty easy to hit when he was working his way up. He adjusted superbly for the Wlad fight. Can Joshua make such adjustments? He should be capable. Needs a new trainer though imo

[Coco]

Punching hard is easy enough, landing them is completely different. If Fury fights like he did against Vlad he is very tough to get hold of. At this level the jab is crucial. I think this was the biggest lesson Joshua learnt is that he needs to set up his attacks with the jab as he won't be able to walk through opponents and unload at this level.

Bear in mind, he landed almost nothing himself in that fight, and Joshua is nowhere near as hesitant as Wlad. Wlad could not, or would not pull the trigger. Partly age, partly demeanour, partly Tyson's tactics.

Tyson could fight like that again and lose on points against Joshua.

The reason fighters can't pull the trigger is because opponents aren't there to be hit, it's called a jab and movement.

[keithmoonhangover]

Punching hard is easy enough, landing them is completely different. If Fury fights like he did against Vlad he is very tough to get hold of. At this level the jab is crucial. I think this was the biggest lesson Joshua learnt is that he needs to set up his attacks with the jab as he won't be able to walk through opponents and unload at this level.

Bear in mind, he landed almost nothing himself in that fight, and Joshua is nowhere near as hesitant as Wlad. Wlad could not, or would not pull the trigger. Partly age, partly demeanour, partly Tyson's tactics.

Tyson could fight like that again and lose on points against Joshua.

The reason fighters can't pull the trigger is because opponents aren't there to be hit, it's called a jab and movement.

I disagree. A lot of boxers at the end of their career suddenly have a fight where they find it hard to pull the trigger. It's not that Klitchsko threw loads of punches and missed, he just didn't throw many punches.

[Ian1973]

I'm not trying to denigrate Fury or his recent achievements but one has to wonder if he's been flattered somewhat by both Del then Wlad turning in utterly dreadful performances? Obviously Fury boxed well in both fights and to some extent nullified his opponents, but even the most ardent Fury fan must concede that neither opponent were at their best? As many have noted Del has looked a touch fragile a number of times since the Haye loss and Wlad was struggling very badly in the Jennings fight.

Joshua can and will improve before he meets Fury, Fury is maybe not what his recent results indicate, so the gap between them isn't a vast as it appears.

Something that interests me is this Joshua "improvement".

Question - Over the last three / four fights (both boxers) who has shown most improvement?

Answer - Fury by a mile.

Someone convince me otherwise ..................... ?????????

[keithmoonhangover]

I'm not trying to denigrate Fury or his recent achievements but one has to wonder if he's been flattered somewhat by both Del then Wlad turning in utterly dreadful performances? Obviously Fury boxed well in both fights and to some extent nullified his opponents, but even the most ardent Fury fan must concede that neither opponent were at their best? As many have noted Del has looked a touch fragile a number of times since the Haye loss and Wlad was struggling very badly in the Jennings fight.

Joshua can and will improve before he meets Fury, Fury is maybe not what his recent results indicate, so the gap between them isn't a vast as it appears.

Something that interests me is this Joshua "improvement".

Question - Over the last three / four fights (both boxers) who has shown most improvement?

Answer - Fury by a mile.

Someone convince me otherwise ..................... ?????????

What happens if Fury gets hit with a sustained barrage of power punches?

[Mimmy]

I love Aj, hes the future, however after the Whyte fight im concerned hes a bit like bruno, robotic and doesnt know how to hang on. When a bigger fighter such as Fury nails his chin, if that happened I can see AJ freezing up and getting stopped. Im not sure how good Fury is, ive never rated him, Klit gifted him a world title because he didnt fight, not Fury's fault that he won the titles fair and square. If they fought tomorrow I think its who lands the big one first. in 2 years time I imagine AJ will be a lot better with more movement if he can be taught that, Bruno couldnt learn it. I doubt either boxer will be unbeaten in 2 years though. I love Josh and hope he improves. Again my heart AJ but head im on the fence at this point I just cant decide how good Fury really is.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Punching hard is easy enough, landing them is completely different. If Fury fights like he did against Vlad he is very tough to get hold of. At this level the jab is crucial. I think this was the biggest lesson Joshua learnt is that he needs to set up his attacks with the jab as he won't be able to walk through opponents and unload at this level.

Bear in mind, he landed almost nothing himself in that fight, and Joshua is nowhere near as hesitant as Wlad. Wlad could not, or would not pull the trigger. Partly age, partly demeanour, partly Tyson's tactics.

Tyson could fight like that again and lose on points against Joshua.

The reason fighters can't pull the trigger is because opponents aren't there to be hit, it's called a jab and movement.

Did you read what i actually wrote?

[jamesmcdonnell]

I'm not trying to denigrate Fury or his recent achievements but one has to wonder if he's been flattered somewhat by both Del then Wlad turning in utterly dreadful performances? Obviously Fury boxed well in both fights and to some extent nullified his opponents, but even the most ardent Fury fan must concede that neither opponent were at their best? As many have noted Del has looked a touch fragile a number of times since the Haye loss and Wlad was struggling very badly in the Jennings fight.

Joshua can and will improve before he meets Fury, Fury is maybe not what his recent results indicate, so the gap between them isn't a vast as it appears.

Something that interests me is this Joshua "improvement".

Question - Over the last three / four fights (both boxers) who has shown most improvement?

Answer - Fury by a mile.

Someone convince me otherwise ..................... ?????????

They are at different points on the curve. Joshua just had his first test.

[Boxerbeetle]

I'm not trying to denigrate Fury or his recent achievements but one has to wonder if he's been flattered somewhat by both Del then Wlad turning in utterly dreadful performances? Obviously Fury boxed well in both fights and to some extent nullified his opponents, but even the most ardent Fury fan must concede that neither opponent were at their best? As many have noted Del has looked a touch fragile a number of times since the Haye loss and Wlad was struggling very badly in the Jennings fight.

Joshua can and will improve before he meets Fury, Fury is maybe not what his recent results indicate, so the gap between them isn't a vast as it appears.

Something that interests me is this Joshua "improvement".

Question - Over the last three / four fights (both boxers) who has shown most improvement?

Answer - Fury by a mile.

Someone convince me otherwise ..................... ?????????

They are at different points on the curve. Joshua just had his first test.

Exactly. In fact, you may as well say 'when has Joshua ever looked as bad as Fury looked against McDermott'? As first tests go, I'd say Joshua dealt with his much more convincingly than Fury dealt with his. But it's still a meaningless comparison.

[Coco]

Bear in mind, he landed almost nothing himself in that fight, and Joshua is nowhere near as hesitant as Wlad. Wlad could not, or would not pull the trigger. Partly age, partly demeanour, partly Tyson's tactics.

Tyson could fight like that again and lose on points against Joshua.

The reason fighters can't pull the trigger is because opponents aren't there to be hit, it's called a jab and movement.

Did you read what i actually wrote?

If Fury's jab and movement make it too difficult for Vlad to pull the trigger, Joshua won't get his gun out of the holster

[jamesmcdonnell]

The reason fighters can't pull the trigger is because opponents aren't there to be hit, it's called a jab and movement.

Did you read what i actually wrote?

If Fury's jab and movement make it too difficult for Vlad to pull the trigger, Joshua won't get his gun out of the holster

Joshua is a very different animal to wlad. Wlad is ultra cautious after having his chin dented many times. No way would joshua act the same way.

[the_doctor]

Right now you have to pick Fury based on experience and having fought at a higher level. He has shown more of a boxing brain than Joshua so far.

Joshua probably has a higher ceiling though and if he learns how to manage fights/situations better over the next 12 months you'd back him to stop Fury in 2017+

[Ally-M1]

I don't have a crystal ball therefore, it's hard for me to say with assurance what I feel the outcome would be 18-24 months from now.

If it was held within the next 6-12 months then Fury, likely by decision. In any case - I would expect a Fury win.

If AJ stays trying to be like Frank Bruno and continue with his top heavy body building, then I may well still pick Fury. Large elements of how Joshua reacted in the Whyte fight cemented that he has huge ability but; that he has either allot of learning still to do or some serious question marks.

If AJ stays closer to his natural weight; then I do feel he has the tools and ability to beat Fury in due course. As other have said, he's not ultra safe minded like Klitschko and without too much bulk weighing him down, more than has the ability to move fast enough to bludgeon Fury.

Anyway, lack of crystal balls aside, that's my 2 pence. What I will say with confidence is that whilst the Heavyweight decision might be low on overall quality, it's now high on overall interest.

[SamWise72]

The thing is, Fury still isn't very good. He's tall, and he's a certain flavour of disciplined, and that's about all he is. He isn't a puncher, his chin is questionable, he mauls and doesn't punch cleanly, he's clumsy. He fought a man who get very old suddenly and who was used to abject surrender. Wlad (who has forgotten how to pull the trigger) aside, he has yet to face a significant puncher, but he's been on the deck,

Joshua's footwork is a bit predictable, he got overexcited and punched himself out against Whyte, he needs to use the jab, and incorporate more head movement. A fight in 18 months will hinge on whether he has learned to jab his way in. Fury will try to lean on him, move around a bit, and throw as few punches as possible. If he can find his way inside the jab and make Fury work hard, he'll probably win; it's not like the big lump has inexhaustible stamina, and if he can land his Sunday punch, it should be goodnight.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I don't have a crystal ball therefore, it's hard for me to say with assurance what I feel the outcome would be 18-24 months from now.

If it was held within the next 6-12 months then Fury, likely by decision. In any case - I would expect a Fury win.

If AJ stays trying to be like Frank Bruno and continue with his top heavy body building, then I may well still pick Fury. Large elements of how Joshua reacted in the Whyte fight cemented that he has huge ability but; that he has either allot of learning still to do or some serious question marks.

If AJ stays closer to his natural weight; then I do feel he has the tools and ability to beat Fury in due course. As other have said, he's not ultra safe minded like Klitschko and without too much bulk weighing him down, more than has the ability to move fast enough to bludgeon Fury.

Anyway, lack of crystal balls aside, that's my 2 pence. What I will say with confidence is that whilst the Heavyweight decision might be low on overall quality, it's now high on overall interest.

Agree with that last bit - as I always expected post Wlad, whilst the talent pool would be shallow, we would get far more interesting fights.

Before everyone pretty much knew they weren't going to beat Wlad and become the next big thing, so they just bottom fed as much as possible until they got their shot.

It will be more interesting now, but there's going to be a real merry go round before we get another dominant heavyweight. Joshua aside, I can't see anyone who is going to potentially dominate for quite a few years. Fury will get beat before long, Wilder looks an accident waiting to happen.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Parker looks to have the goods. Joshua/Parker could be the big heavyweight title fight a couple of years down the line.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Something that interests me is this Joshua "improvement".

Question - Over the last three / four fights (both boxers) who has shown most improvement?

Answer - Fury by a mile.

Someone convince me otherwise ..................... ?????????

They are at different points on the curve. Joshua just had his first test.

Exactly. In fact, you may as well say 'when has Joshua ever looked as bad as Fury looked against McDermott'? As first tests go, I'd say Joshua dealt with his much more convincingly than Fury dealt with his. But it's still a meaningless comparison.

Plus should McDonut even have been considered a legitimate test for a rising heavyweight hopeful? He is proven British level. Whyte looked to be a step above, at least. Joshua would have marmalised Big John early doors.

Sometimes you have to just look at the facts on the page. Fact is, Fury was rocked against Chisora, dropped with one shot by a much smaller, light hitting Pajkic, and dropped with one shot by a much smaller, light hitting Cunningham. If people think Fury has 'improved' enough since those embarrassments to render them irrelevant against someone with the artillery of Joshua.....ehhhh

[jamesmcdonnell]

They are at different points on the curve. Joshua just had his first test.

Exactly. In fact, you may as well say 'when has Joshua ever looked as bad as Fury looked against McDermott'? As first tests go, I'd say Joshua dealt with his much more convincingly than Fury dealt with his. But it's still a meaningless comparison.

Plus should McDonut even have been considered a legitimate test for a rising heavyweight hopeful? He is proven British level. Whyte looked to be a step above, at least. Joshua would have marmalised Big John early doors.

Sometimes you have to just look at the facts on the page. Fact is, Fury was rocked against Chisora, dropped with one shot by a much smaller, light hitting Pajkic, and dropped with one shot by a much smaller, light hitting Cunningham. If people think Fury has 'improved' enough since those embarrassments to render them irrelevant against someone with the artillery of Joshua.....ehhhh

It seems blindingly obvious to me and thee - I think people want to believe he's better than he is because he dethroned Wlad, because it gives them a rosier feeling about the heavyweight division and boxing in general, but truth be told, Fury really still isn't that great. He executed a great gameplan against Wlad, and showed great determination and balls not to be even slightly intimidated, but I still saw nothing to suggest he was anything more than a guy who fought one good fight, albeit a rather pacifist one.

[mickey1975]

Bunce said Wlad was a top 5 heavyweight of all time on Five Live last night when working Sports Personality.

[Boxerbeetle]

Bunce said Wlad was a top 5 heavyweight of all time on Five Live last night when working Sports Personality.

He must have had too much complimentary champagne then.

[mickey1975]

Bunce said Wlad was a top 5 heavyweight of all time on Five Live last night when working Sports Personality.

He must have had too much complimentary champagne then.

When he was talking to Kevin Sinfield he said Rugby Leauge had pulled together in a way no other sports would, like boxing!

[Bard of Boxrec]

It seems blindingly obvious to me and thee - I think people want to believe he's better than he is because he dethroned Wlad, because it gives them a rosier feeling about the heavyweight division and boxing in general

Nailed it.

[Tuan_Jim]

It seems blindingly obvious to me and thee - I think people want to believe he's better than he is because he dethroned Wlad, because it gives them a rosier feeling about the heavyweight division and boxing in general

Nailed it.

Very true.

And if you dare cast a critical eye over Fury or his performance the weirdo lifeless hardcores on here accuse you of not loving boxing enough, or 'reading too many books' (I'm not kidding).