Esteban DeJesus vs ???

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 30 Jan 2006, 20:21

OK fight fans, it's often been said that if hadn't been for Roberto Duran, then Esteban DeJesus would have had a long reign at Lightweight. So with that in mind I'd like to ask the forum how a prime DeJesus would do against these other LW's in there prime.

1. Esteban DeJesus vs Alexis Arguello
2. Esteban DeJesus vs Edwin Rosario
3. Esteban DeJesus vs Hector Camacho
4. Esteban DeJesus vs Julio Cesar Chavez
5. Esteban DeJesus vs Pernell Whitaker

theone · Post by **theone** » 30 Jan 2006, 20:47

1. Esteban DeJesus vs Alexis Arguello- Arguello tko 13
2. Esteban DeJesus vs Edwin Rosario- Rosario ko 5
3. Esteban DeJesus vs Hector Camacho-Camacho UD15
4. Esteban DeJesus vs Julio Cesar Chavez- Chavez tko 11
5. Esteban DeJesus vs Pernell Whitaker- Whitaker easy 15 UD.

The overrating of Dejesus may commence now.

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 30 Jan 2006, 22:41

Esteban was good, but not great. He lost against all of the A fighters of his era, with the exception of the first fight with Duran and Duran did learn his lesson and improve for the second and third fight and show that he was the better fighter, so TheOne I do agree with your views on this one. I do think that Esteban is overrated:TU:

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 30 Jan 2006, 23:16

Dejesus was a fighter who did everything well but nothing spectacularly,These other guys on the list just had a little more.I guess his best chance would be against Rosario. I have the others beating him. Chavez and Arguello by stoppage.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 31 Jan 2006, 17:27

1. vs Arguello, I think DeJesus get's off to a good start and is probably even ahead after the first half of the fight. In the second half though, Arguello would really find his rythym and begin picking his shots. Like Theone I see Arguello winning by a TKO in the 13th.

2. vs Rosario. DeJesus avoids Chapo's powershots in the early rounds and outboxes him in route to a close win on points. Duran needed 11 and 12 rds to stop DeJesus, and I see Rosario improving on that.

3. vs Camacho. Hector would run for most of the fight while landing more punches, while DeJesus' shots would be fewer but more telling. At the end, one judge would have DeJesus winning by 4, while the other two would have Camacho winning by 2 and 1. The decision would be roundly booed.

4. vs Chavez. DeJesus would beat Chavez to the punch and outbox him for 5 or 6 rounds, but JC's body punching would slowly wear down Esteban. By the 12th round, DeJesus would be defenseless and the bout would be stopped.

5. vs Whitaker. DeJesus would fight clever, and not leave himself open to too many counters. Still, Whitaker has too much skill for him. DeJesus makes it a fight though, and when the decision is read it's Whitaker by 3, 3 and 2 points.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 31 Jan 2006, 17:30

I meant to say, I DON'T see Rosario improving on Duran's 11th and 12th round ko's.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 31 Jan 2006, 17:49

Why would that be so surprising? Duran was a better fighter than Rosario of course, but Rosario was a huge hitter. A one punch knockout artist. Don't be surprised if it ends earlier. Duran usually worked a guy over and wore him down, rather than blowing him out in the first few rounds.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 31 Jan 2006, 17:57

Decagon wrote:Rosario was also inconsistent. Why should we assume that he'd be at his best against DeJesus?

Why should we assume DeJesus is at his best against Rosario?

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 01 Feb 2006, 02:50

Decagon wrote:Um, because Esteban DeJesus was a lot more consistent than Rosario was. In his prime, he only lost to Duran and Cervantes.

You have to complicate everything, don't you?

Fantasy match ups are one fighter at his peak versus another at his peak. End of.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 01 Feb 2006, 03:11

I have no time for you.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 01 Feb 2006, 09:05

theone wrote:1. Esteban DeJesus vs Alexis Arguello- Arguello tko 13
2. Esteban DeJesus vs Edwin Rosario- Rosario ko 5
3. Esteban DeJesus vs Hector Camacho-Camacho UD15
4. Esteban DeJesus vs Julio Cesar Chavez- Chavez tko 11
5. Esteban DeJesus vs Pernell Whitaker- Whitaker easy 15 UD.

The overrating of Dejesus may commence now.

Have you even seen any of his fights?... Dejesus is not overrated!... far from it. I can see him beating Chavez, Whitaker, Comatcho and Rosario... to say Rosario would have koed him in 5 is just plain silly, I suppose Rosario was a bigger puncher than Duran???... 8)

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 01 Feb 2006, 09:25

I am surprised that people think Camacho would beat DeJesus. I think DeJesus beats Rosario and Camcho. I agree with most that Arguello would score a come from behind KO. Chavez would win a 15 round decision as would Whittaker BUT these are 3 of the greatest lightweights ever. There's no shame in that and he would have given them all a very tough fight.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 01 Feb 2006, 09:45

silkov wrote:
theone wrote:1. Esteban DeJesus vs Alexis Arguello- Arguello tko 13
2. Esteban DeJesus vs Edwin Rosario- Rosario ko 5
3. Esteban DeJesus vs Hector Camacho-Camacho UD15
4. Esteban DeJesus vs Julio Cesar Chavez- Chavez tko 11
5. Esteban DeJesus vs Pernell Whitaker- Whitaker easy 15 UD.

The overrating of Dejesus may commence now.
Have you even seen any of his fights?... Dejesus is not overrated!... far from it. I can see him beating Chavez, Whitaker, Comatcho and Rosario... to say Rosario would have koed him in 5 is just plain silly, I suppose Rosario was a bigger puncher than Duran???... 8)

I don't see why this is so ridiculous? Rosario was a one-punch knockout artist. Duran was more of a swarmer.

Joe Frazier couldn't stop Oscar Bonavena. Does that mean Ali wouldn't?

Jeez. You guys need to sort out your logic.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 01 Feb 2006, 10:44

DoubleM wrote:
silkov wrote:
theone wrote:1. Esteban DeJesus vs Alexis Arguello- Arguello tko 13
2. Esteban DeJesus vs Edwin Rosario- Rosario ko 5
3. Esteban DeJesus vs Hector Camacho-Camacho UD15
4. Esteban DeJesus vs Julio Cesar Chavez- Chavez tko 11
5. Esteban DeJesus vs Pernell Whitaker- Whitaker easy 15 UD.

The overrating of Dejesus may commence now.
Have you even seen any of his fights?... Dejesus is not overrated!... far from it. I can see him beating Chavez, Whitaker, Comatcho and Rosario... to say Rosario would have koed him in 5 is just plain silly, I suppose Rosario was a bigger puncher than Duran???... 8)
I don't see why this is so ridiculous? Rosario was a one-punch knockout artist. Duran was more of a swarmer.

Joe Frazier couldn't stop Oscar Bonavena. Does that mean Ali wouldn't?

Jeez. You guys need to sort out your logic.

Duran had just as much power as Rosairo and threw far more punches... Duran scored quite a few knockouts himself!. Rosairo was troubled by Howard Davis and beaten by Comatcho... Dejesus was as fast as both Davis and Comatcho and had better power and was a far better all round boxer..... if anything Dejesus would probably stop Rosairo.....

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 01 Feb 2006, 10:46

silkov wrote:
DoubleM wrote:
silkov wrote: Have you even seen any of his fights?... Dejesus is not overrated!... far from it. I can see him beating Chavez, Whitaker, Comatcho and Rosario... to say Rosario would have koed him in 5 is just plain silly, I suppose Rosario was a bigger puncher than Duran???... 8)
I don't see why this is so ridiculous? Rosario was a one-punch knockout artist. Duran was more of a swarmer.

Joe Frazier couldn't stop Oscar Bonavena. Does that mean Ali wouldn't?

Jeez. You guys need to sort out your logic.
Duran had just as much power as Rosairo and threw far more punches... Duran scored quite a few knockouts himself!. Rosairo was troubled by Howard Davis and beaten by Comatcho... Dejesus was as fast as both Davis and Comatcho and had better power and was a far better all round boxer..... if anything Dejesus would probably stop Rosairo.....

Obviously you don't know much about Rosario. He was probably the hardest hitting lightweight of all time.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 01 Feb 2006, 10:55

DoubleM wrote:
silkov wrote:
DoubleM wrote: I don't see why this is so ridiculous? Rosario was a one-punch knockout artist. Duran was more of a swarmer.

Joe Frazier couldn't stop Oscar Bonavena. Does that mean Ali wouldn't?

Jeez. You guys need to sort out your logic.
Duran had just as much power as Rosairo and threw far more punches... Duran scored quite a few knockouts himself!. Rosairo was troubled by Howard Davis and beaten by Comatcho... Dejesus was as fast as both Davis and Comatcho and had better power and was a far better all round boxer..... if anything Dejesus would probably stop Rosairo.....
Obviously you don't know much about Rosario. He was probably the hardest hitting lightweight of all time.

While Duran wasn't I suppose??.... you may know a bit about Rosairo but what fights have you seen of Duran and Dejesus??.... Dejesus wasn't exactly a powderpuff puncher himself!... he floored Duran twice, and Duran had one of the best chins of any champ pound for pound. I know Rosario hit hard but he didn't do anything in his career to support the theory that he'd ko Dejesus in 5, or even beat him at all.
I wouldn't call Rosario the hardest lightweight puncher of all time, what about Ike Williams, Lew Jenkins, Joe Gans, Lew Tendler, Benny Leonard and Duran himself. From what I've seen of Duran he was as hard a puncher as Rosairo and was faster and had a far higher workrate.
When fights have you seen of Dejesus?.... I've seen plenty of fights of all three to make my judgements!.....

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 01 Feb 2006, 10:59

silkov wrote:
DoubleM wrote:
silkov wrote: Duran had just as much power as Rosairo and threw far more punches... Duran scored quite a few knockouts himself!. Rosairo was troubled by Howard Davis and beaten by Comatcho... Dejesus was as fast as both Davis and Comatcho and had better power and was a far better all round boxer..... if anything Dejesus would probably stop Rosairo.....
Obviously you don't know much about Rosario. He was probably the hardest hitting lightweight of all time.
While Duran wasn't I suppose??.... you may know a bit about Rosairo but what fights have you seen of Duran and Dejesus??.... Dejesus wasn't exactly a powderpuff puncher himself!... he floored Duran twice, and Duran had one of the best chins of any champ pound for pound. I know Rosario hit hard but he didn't do anything in his career to support the theory that he'd ko Dejesus in 5, or even beat him at all.
I wouldn't call Rosario the hardest lightweight puncher of all time, what about Ike Williams, Lew Jenkins, Joe Gans, Lew Tendler, Benny Leonard and Duran himself. From what I've seen of Duran he was as hard a puncher as Rosairo and was faster and had a far higher workrate.
When fights have you seen of Dejesus?.... I've seen plenty of fights of all three to make my judgements!.....

Let me say one thing. Roberto Duran is my favourite fighter of all time (along with Marvelous Marvin).

Does that answer your question?

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 01 Feb 2006, 13:12

DoubleM wrote:
silkov wrote:
DoubleM wrote: Obviously you don't know much about Rosario. He was probably the hardest hitting lightweight of all time.
While Duran wasn't I suppose??.... you may know a bit about Rosairo but what fights have you seen of Duran and Dejesus??.... Dejesus wasn't exactly a powderpuff puncher himself!... he floored Duran twice, and Duran had one of the best chins of any champ pound for pound. I know Rosario hit hard but he didn't do anything in his career to support the theory that he'd ko Dejesus in 5, or even beat him at all.
I wouldn't call Rosario the hardest lightweight puncher of all time, what about Ike Williams, Lew Jenkins, Joe Gans, Lew Tendler, Benny Leonard and Duran himself. From what I've seen of Duran he was as hard a puncher as Rosairo and was faster and had a far higher workrate.
When fights have you seen of Dejesus?.... I've seen plenty of fights of all three to make my judgements!.....
Let me say one thing. Roberto Duran is my favourite fighter of all time (along with Marvelous Marvin).

Does that answer your question?

But have you seen Duran Lightweight fights?... have you seen his fights with Dejesus... and Dejesus' fights with Cervantes, Suzuzki?.... if you have I'd question why you think Rosairo would beat Dejesus, ...especially in 5 rounds!... remember what Ramariez did to Rosario, Dejesus hit just as hard only faster and more often....

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 01 Feb 2006, 13:51

silkov wrote:
DoubleM wrote:
silkov wrote: While Duran wasn't I suppose??.... you may know a bit about Rosairo but what fights have you seen of Duran and Dejesus??.... Dejesus wasn't exactly a powderpuff puncher himself!... he floored Duran twice, and Duran had one of the best chins of any champ pound for pound. I know Rosario hit hard but he didn't do anything in his career to support the theory that he'd ko Dejesus in 5, or even beat him at all.
I wouldn't call Rosario the hardest lightweight puncher of all time, what about Ike Williams, Lew Jenkins, Joe Gans, Lew Tendler, Benny Leonard and Duran himself. From what I've seen of Duran he was as hard a puncher as Rosairo and was faster and had a far higher workrate.
When fights have you seen of Dejesus?.... I've seen plenty of fights of all three to make my judgements!.....
Let me say one thing. Roberto Duran is my favourite fighter of all time (along with Marvelous Marvin).

Does that answer your question?

But have you seen Duran Lightweight fights?... have you seen his fights with Dejesus... and Dejesus' fights with Cervantes, Suzuzki?.... if you have I'd question why you think Rosairo would beat Dejesus, ...especially in 5 rounds!... remember what Ramariez did to Rosario, Dejesus hit just as hard only faster and more often....

Whoa... Hang on there buddy. You're putting words on my screen. I never said Rosario would knock out DeJesus in five. What my point was, is that it's not ridiculous to say Rosario wouldn't stop DeJesus before Duran did. Rosario to Duran is like Jackson to Hagler. One was a one punch knockout artist, the other took his man out with an assortment of punches. I believe both Hagler and Duran were greater punchers than Jackson and Rosario, but that's besides the point.

And yes, I have seen Duran's lightweight fights. What kind of fan do you think I am? I will say this, without sounding arrogant, but I am fairly well educated in this boxing history game. I've seen the films and read the books just as much as the next man.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 01 Feb 2006, 14:32

DoubleM wrote:
silkov wrote:
DoubleM wrote: Let me say one thing. Roberto Duran is my favourite fighter of all time (along with Marvelous Marvin).

Does that answer your question?

But have you seen Duran Lightweight fights?... have you seen his fights with Dejesus... and Dejesus' fights with Cervantes, Suzuzki?.... if you have I'd question why you think Rosairo would beat Dejesus, ...especially in 5 rounds!... remember what Ramariez did to Rosario, Dejesus hit just as hard only faster and more often....
Whoa... Hang on there buddy. You're putting words on my screen. I never said Rosario would knock out DeJesus in five. What my point was, is that it's not ridiculous to say Rosario wouldn't stop DeJesus before Duran did. Rosario to Duran is like Jackson to Hagler. One was a one punch knockout artist, the other took his man out with an assortment of punches. I believe both Hagler and Duran were greater punchers than Jackson and Rosario, but that's besides the point.

And yes, I have seen Duran's lightweight fights. What kind of fan do you think I am? I will say this, without sounding arrogant, but I am fairly well educated in this boxing history game. I've seen the films and read the
books just as much as the next man.

Well I don't think Rosairo would stop Dejesus at all, Dejesus would have been too fast for Rosairo. I disagree that Duran and Edwin are comparable to Hagler and Jackson... at lightweight Duran was a far more ferocious puncher than Hagler ever was... many consider Duran the hardest puncher ever to hold the Lightweight title. Rosairo was good but he was a notch below Duran and dejesus.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 01 Feb 2006, 14:38

Well let me tell you, that Duran was not the hardest hitting lightweight, or lightweight champion. And of course Duran was more ferocious than Hagler, I was comparing their power. And yes, Rosario was a notch or ten below Duran, and maybe a little below DeJesus. Schmeling was a notch below Louis, but look what happened.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 01 Feb 2006, 14:48

DoubleM wrote:Well let me tell you, that Duran was not the hardest hitting lightweight, or lightweight champion. And of course Duran was more ferocious than Hagler, I was comparing their power. And yes, Rosario was a notch or ten below Duran, and maybe a little below DeJesus. Schmeling was a notch below Louis, but look what happened.

Well if Duran wasn't the biggest ever punching Lightweight, Rosairo certainly wasn't... what makes you so certain that Duran wasn't yet Rosairo was?. Aside from all that there is no evidence to show that Rosairo would have beaten Dejesus... Edwin always struggled with fast boxers, he gave comatcho a good fight but still lost, Dejesus was a better fighter than Comatcho and had far more guts... he was too good an all round boxer for Rosairo...

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 01 Feb 2006, 15:09

silkov wrote:
DoubleM wrote:Well let me tell you, that Duran was not the hardest hitting lightweight, or lightweight champion. And of course Duran was more ferocious than Hagler, I was comparing their power. And yes, Rosario was a notch or ten below Duran, and maybe a little below DeJesus. Schmeling was a notch below Louis, but look what happened.
Well if Duran wasn't the biggest ever punching Lightweight, Rosairo certainly wasn't... what makes you so certain that Duran wasn't yet Rosairo was?. Aside from all that there is no evidence to show that Rosairo would have beaten Dejesus... Edwin always struggled with fast boxers, he gave comatcho a good fight but still lost, Dejesus was a better fighter than Comatcho and had far more guts... he was too good an all round boxer for Rosairo...

Errr... Rosario's devstating one-punch knockouts.

I can't believe we're even arguing this. It is well known that Duran was an attritional fighter, while Rosario was a one-punch knockout artist.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 01 Feb 2006, 15:17

Duran fought far better competition than Rosairo, as did Dejesus, what great fighters did Rosairo ko with one punch?.... aside from Bramble he hasn't got many notable one punch koes at all. Rosairo struggled with Ramairez and Davis... good fighters but hardly comparable to either Dejesus or Duran.... what did Rosairo ever do that shows that he would have beaten Dejesus???.....

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 01 Feb 2006, 15:20

Just give up Silkov. You have totally missed the point, even after being redirected by me earlier.