BOTP Heavyweight Top 20

[HomicideHenry]

Let's see if the forum posters can make a better top twenty all time list, as opposed to the computer software.

Hypothetical match ups among 20 names, and whoever gets the most votes in 24 hours, moves on to the next match.

In the end, it will be determined by the best win/loss/draw ratio.

In the case of .500 records (upon conclusion) they will be matched again (series, best two out of three).

The names in this top twenty tournament are as follows:

Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Larry Holmes, Joe Frazier, Evander Holyfield, George Foreman, Lennox Lewis, Jack Dempsey, Rocky Marciano, Gene Tunney, Vladimir Klitschko, Max Schmeling, Max Baer, James Jefferies, Jack Johnson, Vitali Klitschko, Mike Tyson, Tim Witherspoon (he was a 2x champ after all), Jersey Joe Walcott, and Floyd Patterson.

Some may not agree with that being a legit top twenty list, but I think it is solid enough.

First match....

Floyd Patterson vs Max Schmeling

[witherspoon]

I'm going with Patterson on this one, pts, close.

[Ezzard]

I like Schmeling's right hand to win this one.

[PredatorHayds]

Patterson stoppage.

[davie]

Think it could be a stoppage for either man.
Both guys with a good stoppage percentage and both stopped a few times.

The Schmeling that beat a young Joe Louis? I'd fancy him to better Floyd with both men visiting the canvas but Max getting the KO with the right cross between the 12 and 15th round.

[cfang]

Ive got Max in this one. That right hand would do a lot of damage a la ingo but Max more resilient

[dr_devious]

Max Schmelling by late KO

[HomicideHenry]

It seems Schmeling has come out the victor and moves forward in the tourney...

Next match:

Jersey Joe Walcott vs. Max Baer

[witherspoon]

It seems Schmeling has come out the victor and moves forward in the tourney...

Next match:

Jersey Joe Walcott vs. Max Baer

I'm going to think carefully about this one. First impulse is to go with JJ, purely on strength of character.
I'd like to see what other posters have to say though.

[cfang]

First thought was Baer finding jjw with his brutal right hand sooner or later. Then I had a good look at Baer's record. JJW was a superior fighter in my view and would have won on pts. Walcott Pts15

[HomicideHenry]

First thought was Baer finding jjw with his brutal right hand sooner or later. Then I had a good look at Baer's record. JJW was a superior fighter in my view and would have won on pts. Walcott Pts15

I wont be voting, as I made the matches, but I think one has to consider Baer's top notch performances. There is a difference indeed between when Baer was serious and Baer when he was clowning, and records can be misleading when not taking into account that fact. The Baer that beat Levinsky, Schmeling, Galento, Carnera, was all business. Albeit, I will concede that Baer never quite fought anyone with the talent and abilities as Walcott either. So it is a very interesting match up.

[PredatorHayds]

Really tough fight to call.

Baer was a great fighter with true one punch knockout power.

In my opinion a prime Jersey Joe has enough ring smarts to avoid the bombs to claim a points win

[dr_devious]

JJW won UD points

[Ezzard]

Baer on his best night

[HomicideHenry]

Jersey Joe Walcott advances.....


Next fight in the tourney.... Tim Witherspoon vs. James Jefferies

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Wlad and vitali have no business in the top 20. Tunney and baer are highly questionable.

[HomicideHenry]

Wlad and vitali have no business in the top 20. Tunney and baer are highly questionable.

When you make a comprehensive list that shows that they aren't top twenty material, then you can complain

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Wlad and vitali have no business in the top 20. Tunney and baer are highly questionable.

When you make a comprehensive list that shows that they aren't top twenty material, then you can complain

I wasn't complaining, do your thing. Vitali in the top 20 is especially laughable. If you want some guys that are clearly more deserving than the Klitschko's, fine. norton, jeanette, Wills & mcvey. Charles not being included is a joke.

Michael spinks has better wins at heavy than both of them combined.

[Ambling Alp II]

Sonny Liston has to be in the Top 20. I don't see how anybody would argue against that.

[HomicideHenry]

Wlad and vitali have no business in the top 20. Tunney and baer are highly questionable.

When you make a comprehensive list that shows that they aren't top twenty material, then you can complain

I wasn't complaining, do your thing. Vitali in the top 20 is especially laughable. If you want some guys that are clearly more deserving than the Klitschko's, fine. norton, jeanette, Wills & mcvey. Charles not being included is a joke.

Michael spinks has better wins at heavy than both of them combined.

Norton was a champion only because the WBC belt was handed to him. Jeanette, Wills, McVey never won the title. This is a top twenty champions list. And it was a toss up between Walcott and Charles, and Walcott knocked Charles out--- which is a rarity in Charles' long and illustrious career. That and Walcott was robbed against Louis in the first match, etc. so I opted with Walcott. As for Spinks.... outside of Holmes.... I don't think beating a washed up Cooney really amounts to much.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Sonny Liston has to be in the Top 20. I don't see how anybody would argue against that.

LOL, I didn't even catch that. He's top 10 imo.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

When you make a comprehensive list that shows that they aren't top twenty material, then you can complain

I wasn't complaining, do your thing. Vitali in the top 20 is especially laughable. If you want some guys that are clearly more deserving than the Klitschko's, fine. norton, jeanette, Wills & mcvey. Charles not being included is a joke.

Michael spinks has better wins at heavy than both of them combined.

Norton was a champion only because the WBC belt was handed to him. Jeanette, Wills, McVey never won the title. This is a top twenty champions list. And it was a toss up between Walcott and Charles, and Walcott knocked Charles out--- which is a rarity in Charles' long and illustrious career. That and Walcott was robbed against Louis in the first match, etc. so I opted with Walcott. As for Spinks.... outside of Holmes.... I don't think beating a washed up Cooney really amounts to much.

It's the first you've mentioned that it's just champions. Might want to say that beforehand. though i know your style is nonsensical rambling followed up by back tracking.

Norton's title was as legit as Vitali's. Charles was a long reigning champion that beat walcott more than once.

Spinks beating holmes twice trumps any wins they have. Their resumes are paper thin. though wlad has far distanced himself from his brother. byrd is more deserving than vitali.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

The fact that the 20 and 21 on your list was Walcott and Charles shows how truly silly it is. Carry on.

[HomicideHenry]

Sonny Liston has to be in the Top 20. I don't see how anybody would argue against that.

I suppose because in my mind (at least) he's an all-time great if Muhammad Ali didn't exist. The prophetic words of Marciano rang true ("Liston is a bully and will fall the moment he's stood up to") when he fought Ali. What Liston did following the Ali fights, didn't demonstrate much. The fights prior to Ali, have to be really analyzed.... he beat Patterson twice, sure, but what else is there really to pinpoint that he was an all-time great? There was alot of expectations on Liston, and the fact is they didn't pan out.

I'm sure one can say the same to me about including Schmeling, or Baer, or even Witherspoon.... but.... Schmeling held a win over an all-time great (Louis) and was/is considered the greatest (or second best) European heavyweight of all time. Max Baer had a rather long and successful career, defeating a long list of fighters with great resumes (Ernie Schaaf, Primo Carnera, Max Schmeling, Tony Galento, etc) and it seems the only thing that held Baer back was his own self. As for Witherspoon, he was champion of the world twice and gave Larry Holmes one of the tougher fights of his career and its a shame that 'Spoon never did get the real high profile fights with Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, etc.

I think, sometimes, potential over rides accomplishment. For example, in the lighter weights, I think no one can say that Duran wasn't the superior boxer/fighter over the likes of Hagler, Leonard and Hearns.... but in practice, he split wins and losses with them. Really, if we were to go by pure skill alone, pure ability alone (let alone accomplishments) I'd have Sam Langford on the list (who in my opinion was the greatest boxer of all time), but he never won the title--- which is why I didn't include him.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He beat patterson twice in 1 round, but Floyd ranks higher?

Losing to Ali hurts him but losing to Purity, Brewster, sanders and Fury is cool?

I haven't logged on here in a year, and it seems you've gotten even dumber.