Who are the "best ever" in every division?

[jezzamundo]

no 2

19 defeats, 6 draws, which means he failed to win 1 in every 7 fights. - FACT however you try to interpret it.

during his younger years and prime he was 128 1 2

overall 173 19 6

so he is no good because he lost often when he was older and out of his prime, so in your logic roy jones jr isnt good, cause he had a lot of losses, also after his prime.

Exactly. Losses that occur when a fighter is shot or at least well past their prime should have little to no effect on their legacy or any opinion of how good they were.

[klitoris]

Heavyweight - Rocky Marciano
Cruiserweight - Evander Holyfield
Light Heavyweight - Gene Tunney
Super Middleweight - Joe Calzaghe
Middleweight - Sugar Ray Robinson
Light Middleweight - Félix Trinidad
Welterweight - Floyd Mayweather Jr
Light Welterweight - Julio Cesar Chavez
Lightweight - Roberto Duran
Super featherweight - Alexis Arguello
Featherweight - Willie Pep
Super Bantamweight - Wilfredo Gomez
Bantamweight - Eder Jofre
Super Flyweight - Johnny Tapia
Flyweight - Jimmy Wilde
Light Flyweight - Michael Carbajal
Minimumweight - Ricardo Lopez

[tiny_acres]

Heavyweight - Ali
Cruiserweight - Evander Holyfield
Light Heavyweight - Ezzard Charles
Super Middleweight - Joe Calzaghe
Middleweight - Carlos Monzon
Light Middleweight - Tommy Hearns
Welterweight - Sugar Ray Robinson
Light Welterweight -Julio Ceasar Chavez
Lightweight - Roberto Duran
Super featherweight - Floyd Mayweather Jr
Featherweight - Willie Pep
Super Bantamweight -Wilfredo Gomez
Bantamweight - Edre Jofre
Super Flyweight -Khasoi Galaxy
Flyweight - Miguel Canto
Light Flyweight - Michael Carbajal
Minimumweight - Ricardo Lopez


Please excuse the spelling on some of these names

[Chepppaaa]

the last 2 lists were realy good. keep going

[jezzamundo]

the last 2 lists were realy good. keep going

I agree regarding Tiny's, but not Klit's. Rocky as top heavyweight is silly and putting too much emphasis on his undefeated record - he was small and didn't operate in a strong enough era to put himself above the likes of Louis and Ali (please don't mention the Louis fight - he was a shell of himself), and I feel pretty confident that he'd lose in fights to Holmes, Lewis and Foreman.

Robinson is arguably the greatest ever p4p, but he was past his prime at middleweight and was probably never more than a natural 154lb fighter anyway. It's a credit to his greatness that he was able to hold the title and beat other great fighters at middleweight, but he lost fights and was nowhere near the near-invincible force he was at welterweight. That he's not the #1 welterweight is ridiculous.

Trinidad at LMW is a joke - De La Hoya would have beaten him had he not run. He was a brilliant puncher, but would likely lose to greats like McCallum and Hearns and possibly Mosley as well.

Mayweather is the best fighter of his generation, but a blown up lightweight ruling in a weak era. He's arguably not a top 10 welterweight of all time. I don't give him a chance against Robinson, Leonard or Hearns at welterweight and he probably loses to a prime Duran too.

[King Carlos]

the last 2 lists were realy good. keep going

Dude, Lopez last fought in 2001. 14 years ago. How can a Nokia 3310 compare to an IPHONE 6?

[davie]

HI - Muhammad Ali
CW - Evander Holyfield
LHW - Archie Moore
SMW - Roy Jones Jr
MW - Marvelous Martin Hagler (hard choice with Monzon/Greb)
LMW - Thomas Hearns
WW - Sugar Ray Robinson (could have been MW too)
LWW - Julio Cesar Chavez
LW- Henry Armstrong (could have been FW or WW but putting him here saves me choosing between Benny Leonard, Canzoneri, Gans, Duran, Ortiz, Montgomery etc etc)
SFW - Alexis Arguelo
FW - Willie Pep
SBW - Barerra/Morales (I'm not splitting them)
BW - Eder Jofre
SFW - Khaosai Galaxy
FW - Benny Lynch
LFW- Roman Gonzalez
MW - Richardo Lopez

[Chepppaaa]

the last 2 lists were realy good. keep going

I agree regarding Tiny's, but not Klit's. Rocky as top heavyweight is silly and putting too much emphasis on his undefeated record - he was small and didn't operate in a strong enough era to put himself above the likes of Louis and Ali (please don't mention the Louis fight - he was a shell of himself), and I feel pretty confident that he'd lose in fights to Holmes, Lewis and Foreman.

Robinson is arguably the greatest ever p4p, but he was past his prime at middleweight and was probably never more than a natural 154lb fighter anyway. It's a credit to his greatness that he was able to hold the title and beat other great fighters at middleweight, but he lost fights and was nowhere near the near-invincible force he was at welterweight. That he's not the #1 welterweight is ridiculous.

Trinidad at LMW is a joke - De La Hoya would have beaten him had he not run. He was a brilliant puncher, but would likely lose to greats like McCallum and Hearns and possibly Mosley as well.

Mayweather is the best fighter of his generation, but a blown up lightweight ruling in a weak era. He's arguably not a top 10 welterweight of all time. I don't give him a chance against Robinson, Leonard or Hearns at welterweight and he probably loses to a prime Duran too.

overall the lists were good. tito was a monster at 154. sure athletic technicians would have made him problems. but mosley would have been kod, oscar also beaten too. oscar was far slower and stationary at 154 and trinidad was at his prime at that weight, hell even hearns would have had some problems with those hooks from tito.

[davie]

some of the weight divisions have been around a lot longer than others too. giving a lot deeper pool to choose from.

some real ATGs like Armstrong would have fought at superfeather and light welter, SRR would have featured at 154lbs and Archie Moore or Ezzard Charles might have been best at cruiser in their pomp.
guys like Calzaghe and Trinidad wouldn't even have entered the discussion if their weight class had existed for the entirety of boxing history.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

SW: Roman Gonzalez
108: Yoko Gushiken
112: Pancho Villa
115: Khaosai galaxy
118: Eder Jofre
122: Erik Morales
126: Willie Pep
130: Floyd mayweather
135: Roberto Duran
140: Duilio Loi
147: Ray robinson
154: thomas Hearns
160: harry Greb
168: Roy jones
175: Ezzard Charles
200: Evander Holyfield
H: joe louis

Oddly, I think Sam langford is top 3 ever but he encompassed so many divisions he doesn't fit at the top of any.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Too many posts to quote, while I'll give that athletes are bigger and more athletic as a whole, the actual skill level has never been lower. many top 10 fighters today would have never achieved journeyman status 30 or 40 years ago. Nothing hones skills like fights against top opposition and today's guys just don't do it enough. People think Wlad was skilled, LMAO.

And making a list while this is subjective, whom you think would win a fight is an absurd rating methodology. We're all wrong on a weekly basis. It's resume based unless it's a coin flip. One more point on todays bigger and better athletes. Henry Armstrong could give Broner 30 pounds and he'd beat the shit out of him in every round.

[tiny_acres]

Too many posts to quote, while I'll give that athletes are bigger and more athletic as a whole, the actual skill level has never been lower. many top 10 fighters today would have never achieved journeyman status 30 or 40 years ago. Nothing hones skills like fights against top opposition and today's guys just don't do it enough. People think Wlad was skilled, LMAO.

Where the he'll have you been?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Too many posts to quote, while I'll give that athletes are bigger and more athletic as a whole, the actual skill level has never been lower. many top 10 fighters today would have never achieved journeyman status 30 or 40 years ago. Nothing hones skills like fights against top opposition and today's guys just don't do it enough. People think Wlad was skilled, LMAO.

Where the he'll have you been?

Moved to Texas, working a lot, got a girl, etc...

And to be honest, Boxing sucks pretty bad these days. While i still watch it, I'm more interested in the UFC. Almost popped in after watching Fury box the mighty Wlad's ears off. I've never enjoyed a putrid fight that much!

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Fury would beat Ali as he is too big for him

Any boxing list on it without may weather is not a real list

fury would beat ali in terms of size etc.

but if we go p4p, meaning same height, same weight, that ali beats fury all the way, cause he is way more athletic, way more fast, way more skilled than fury.

therefore p4p ali > fury

also i dont like comparing heavyweights from today with those from back than, cause most top heavyweights from the past would be more cruiserweights than heavyweights compared to the tall big guys from today.

Then you are talking mythical people. Someone that doesn't exist.

The comment was correct Fury would beat Ali. Size, reach etc.

This is the reason P4P lists only really make any sort of sense when comparing resume's. It's the only way you can make any sort of realistic judgement. Even then it is highly subjective.

Fury wouldn't land a punch on Ali. I don't know that he could beat Holyfield, NOW.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

the last 2 lists were realy good. keep going

I agree regarding Tiny's, but not Klit's. Rocky as top heavyweight is silly and putting too much emphasis on his undefeated record - he was small and didn't operate in a strong enough era to put himself above the likes of Louis and Ali (please don't mention the Louis fight - he was a shell of himself), and I feel pretty confident that he'd lose in fights to Holmes, Lewis and Foreman.

Robinson is arguably the greatest ever p4p, but he was past his prime at middleweight and was probably never more than a natural 154lb fighter anyway. It's a credit to his greatness that he was able to hold the title and beat other great fighters at middleweight, but he lost fights and was nowhere near the near-invincible force he was at welterweight. That he's not the #1 welterweight is ridiculous.

Trinidad at LMW is a joke - De La Hoya would have beaten him had he not run. He was a brilliant puncher, but would likely lose to greats like McCallum and Hearns and possibly Mosley as well.

Mayweather is the best fighter of his generation, but a blown up lightweight ruling in a weak era. He's arguably not a top 10 welterweight of all time. I don't give him a chance against Robinson, Leonard or Hearns at welterweight and he probably loses to a prime Duran too.

overall the lists were good. tito was a monster at 154. sure athletic technicians would have made him problems. but mosley would have been kod, oscar also beaten too. oscar was far slower and stationary at 154 and trinidad was at his prime at that weight, hell even hearns would have had some problems with those hooks from tito.

LOL, I have a suspicion Tito would have struggled with Winky wright.

[tiny_acres]

Too many posts to quote, while I'll give that athletes are bigger and more athletic as a whole, the actual skill level has never been lower. many top 10 fighters today would have never achieved journeyman status 30 or 40 years ago. Nothing hones skills like fights against top opposition and today's guys just don't do it enough. People think Wlad was skilled, LMAO.

Where the he'll have you been?

Moved to Texas, working a lot, got a girl, etc...

And to be honest, Boxing sucks pretty bad these days. While i still watch it, I'm more interested in the UFC. Almost popped in after watching Fury box the mighty Wlad's ears off. I've never enjoyed a putrid fight that much!

You know as well as anyone this sport has its highs and lows.
I think things are going to be good in the immediate future.
Glad to see you back

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Where the he'll have you been?

Moved to Texas, working a lot, got a girl, etc...

And to be honest, Boxing sucks pretty bad these days. While i still watch it, I'm more interested in the UFC. Almost popped in after watching Fury box the mighty Wlad's ears off. I've never enjoyed a putrid fight that much!

You know as well as anyone this sport has its highs and lows.
I think things are going to be good in the immediate future.
Glad to see you back

We'll see what Al has up his sleeve. I think one good sign is he is matching a lot of prospects on undercards. Testing them early makes for better fights later. i'll pop in from time to time. take care.

[Chepppaaa]

I agree regarding Tiny's, but not Klit's. Rocky as top heavyweight is silly and putting too much emphasis on his undefeated record - he was small and didn't operate in a strong enough era to put himself above the likes of Louis and Ali (please don't mention the Louis fight - he was a shell of himself), and I feel pretty confident that he'd lose in fights to Holmes, Lewis and Foreman.

Robinson is arguably the greatest ever p4p, but he was past his prime at middleweight and was probably never more than a natural 154lb fighter anyway. It's a credit to his greatness that he was able to hold the title and beat other great fighters at middleweight, but he lost fights and was nowhere near the near-invincible force he was at welterweight. That he's not the #1 welterweight is ridiculous.

Trinidad at LMW is a joke - De La Hoya would have beaten him had he not run. He was a brilliant puncher, but would likely lose to greats like McCallum and Hearns and possibly Mosley as well.

Mayweather is the best fighter of his generation, but a blown up lightweight ruling in a weak era. He's arguably not a top 10 welterweight of all time. I don't give him a chance against Robinson, Leonard or Hearns at welterweight and he probably loses to a prime Duran too.

overall the lists were good. tito was a monster at 154. sure athletic technicians would have made him problems. but mosley would have been kod, oscar also beaten too. oscar was far slower and stationary at 154 and trinidad was at his prime at that weight, hell even hearns would have had some problems with those hooks from tito.

LOL, I have a suspicion Tito would have struggled with Winky wright.

[King Carlos]

SW: Roman Gonzalez
108: Yoko Gushiken
112: Pancho Villa
115: Khaosai galaxy
118: Eder Jofre
122: Erik Morales
126: Willie Pep
130: Floyd mayweather
135: Roberto Duran
140: Duilio Loi
147: Ray robinson
154: thomas Hearns
160: harry Greb
168: Roy jones
175: Ezzard Charles
200: Evander Holyfield
H: joe louis

Oddly, I think Sam langford is top 3 ever but he encompassed so many divisions he doesn't fit at the top of any.

While I agree that Roman is better than Lopez overall, he's improved a lot since his 105 days. Much better mover now, much better at cutting off the ring and breaking his man down methodically as opposed to boring forward in straight lines and blasting his way through.

[Boxerbeetle]

Fury would beat Ali as he is too big for him

Any boxing list on it without may weather is not a real list

fury would beat ali in terms of size etc.

but if we go p4p, meaning same height, same weight, that ali beats fury all the way, cause he is way more athletic, way more fast, way more skilled than fury.

therefore p4p ali > fury

also i dont like comparing heavyweights from today with those from back than, cause most top heavyweights from the past would be more cruiserweights than heavyweights compared to the tall big guys from today.

Then you are talking mythical people. Someone that doesn't exist.

The comment was correct Fury would beat Ali. Size, reach etc.

This is the reason P4P lists only really make any sort of sense when comparing resume's. It's the only way you can make any sort of realistic judgement. Even then it is highly subjective.

FFS, Fury does not beat Ali. Possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on here.

[campfire]

h-lewis
c-gomez
l-jones jr
s-jones jr
m-jones jr
s-robinson
w-leonard
s-pacquiao
l-pacquiao
s-pacquiao
f-?
s-rigondeaux
b-jofre
s-galaxy
f-gonzales

Are you kidding just put your head in the sand and pretend Roy Jones Jr and PED'S ARE GOOD FRIEND'S THE BEST EVER AT WHAT WEIGHT :??
l-?
m-Lopez

[Bard of Boxrec]

fury would beat ali in terms of size etc.

but if we go p4p, meaning same height, same weight, that ali beats fury all the way, cause he is way more athletic, way more fast, way more skilled than fury.

therefore p4p ali > fury

also i dont like comparing heavyweights from today with those from back than, cause most top heavyweights from the past would be more cruiserweights than heavyweights compared to the tall big guys from today.

Then you are talking mythical people. Someone that doesn't exist.

The comment was correct Fury would beat Ali. Size, reach etc.

This is the reason P4P lists only really make any sort of sense when comparing resume's. It's the only way you can make any sort of realistic judgement. Even then it is highly subjective.

FFS, Fury does not beat Ali. Possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on here.

I know, cringeworthy. Just another poster with the baffling opinion that 'LOLZ LOOK HOW BIG THIS GUY IS, THAT MUST MEAN HE BEATZ EVERYONEZZZ LOLLZZ!!'

[Tuan_Jim]

Tyson Fury beating Muhammad Ali is one of the silliest things I have ever read.

[jamesmcdonnell]

h-lewis
c-gomez
l-jones jr
s-jones jr
m-jones jr
s-robinson
w-leonard
s-pacquiao
l-pacquiao
s-pacquiao
f-?
s-rigondeaux
b-jofre
s-galaxy
f-gonzales
l-?
m-Lopez

no offense, but you must be born
after 1990 ...

robinson and prime leonard were so 90's

give me an oldschool boxer and i name you a newschool 90+ who will beat him.

athletes in every sport become better with time, nutrition + new training +genetics become better over time. in every sport, yes, also boxing. their are exceptions like robinson or clay, both those super rare talent get only born every 50 years.

This old chestnut.

How do genetics become better exactly? Please explain the mechanism? Explain to me how people today are genetically superior, given that in the modern age where we have innumerable drugs and treatments to allow the weak to survive, the human gene pool Is improving? If anything it's the reverse. Go back 100 years and only the genetically blessed survived the numerous childhood illnesses and other physical stresses into adulthood.

Boxing training has barely changed in the last 100 years. Fighters like Bob Fitzsimmons were doing interval training as part of their routines over 100 years ago. The boxers diet of Steak and Eggs, is actually what many recommended by many for modern atheletes.

The only major change is PED's.

Fighting is not like athletics - it's not just about speed and fitness, it's about many more factors, and the skill level has a huge bearing. Fighters of the past fought more often, there were more of them, and they learnt their craft more fully, there was a much deeper talent pool, and therefore it was far harder to get to the top.

If you took Jesse Owens, and put him in modern running spikes, gave him performance enhancing drugs and other nutritional supplements, and put him on a modern running track, he would be running well under 10.0

[man]

If you took Jesse Owens, and put him in modern running spikes, gave him performance enhancing drugs and other nutritional supplements, and put him on a modern running track, he would be running well under 10.0

https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein ... anguage=en