Joe Louis, his legacy?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Giancarlo and SaadOffTheDeck. --------


Regarding Joe Louis. Several of his statements regarding Rocky Marciano.


1. "Marciano was tough enough to beat anyone. He doesn't fight by the book, but he hit me with a whole library of bone crushers. This kid punches hard. I can still feel the body punches he hit me with. I had a bad weakness. I hated to be crowded. That was Marcianos thing".



2. "He had a hidden secret in his career. That he didn't like being crowded. That he felt that even in his prime, that he couldn't have won against Rocky Marciano".



3. "That all of the fighters which he was matched against, that Rocky would have won".




What Louis stated about Rocky, do you think that this carried a lot of validity?


Or, do you think that Joe was just being nice & respectful towards Rocky? That, deep down, Joe Louis did feel that he could have beaten Rocky Marciano?

Rocky was obviously a very strong man, but I absolutely think Louis was being respectful. There is also the feeling that an older fighter has that they still have their arsenal. I think Joe's jab alone would have ripped apart Marciano's face and I'd also take the Charles that Joe faced to beat him.

[NYDominican]

What Louis stated about Rocky, do you think that this carried a lot of validity?

Absolutely, Joe had retired at that point and he had no reason to lie. I have read those statements before and they make sense to me.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________



Crease, your 5 points above. --------------- I see your angles.

[NYDominican]

I think it was Al Weill who said that a younger Joe Louis would have got KO'd quicker because he would have come toward Rocky.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Rocky Marcianos trainer Charlie Goldman said "That a prime Joe Louis would have gotten knocked out much sooner".




That "Marciano did not want to hurt Louis and did not fight full force during those early rounds either".

[NYDominican]

I'm not sure if I agree with that part, Louis had excellent powers of recovery - but I just don't see him beating The Rock. And it's not just because of Rock'y power, it's his awkward style which gave Joe trouble.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Okay.



So, you could see Rocky stopping Joe after the 8th round?



Or, Marciano beating Louis by a decision?

[NYDominican]

Giancarlo and SaadOffTheDeck. --------


Regarding Joe Louis. Several of his statements regarding Rocky Marciano.


1. "Marciano was tough enough to beat anyone. He doesn't fight by the book, but he hit me with a whole library of bone crushers. This kid punches hard. I can still feel the body punches he hit me with. I had a bad weakness. I hated to be crowded. That was Marcianos thing".



2. "He had a hidden secret in his career. That he didn't like being crowded. That he felt that even in his prime, that he couldn't have won against Rocky Marciano".



3. "That all of the fighters which he was matched against, that Rocky would have won".




What Louis stated about Rocky, do you think that this carried a lot of validity?


Or, do you think that Joe was just being nice & respectful towards Rocky? That, deep down, Joe Louis did feel that he could have beaten Rocky Marciano?

Rocky was obviously a very strong man, but I absolutely think Louis was being respectful. There is also the feeling that an older fighter has that they still have their arsenal. I think Joe's jab alone would have ripped apart Marciano's face.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________



Saad, your 4 points above. ------------ I see your angles.

[NYDominican]

Giancarlo and SaadOffTheDeck. --------


Regarding Joe Louis. Several of his statements regarding Rocky Marciano.


1. "Marciano was tough enough to beat anyone. He doesn't fight by the book, but he hit me with a whole library of bone crushers. This kid punches hard. I can still feel the body punches he hit me with. I had a bad weakness. I hated to be crowded. That was Marcianos thing".



2. "He had a hidden secret in his career. That he didn't like being crowded. That he felt that even in his prime, that he couldn't have won against Rocky Marciano".



3. "That all of the fighters which he was matched against, that Rocky would have won".




What Louis stated about Rocky, do you think that this carried a lot of validity?


Or, do you think that Joe was just being nice & respectful towards Rocky? That, deep down, Joe Louis did feel that he could have beaten Rocky Marciano?

and I'd also take the Charles that Joe faced to beat him.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________



Saad, do you think so? I pose this question, because Rocky Marciano and Ezzard Charles fought twice. Rocky beat Ezzard both times.


Charles was around two years older than Marciano. So, Ezzards age was not a handicap.



The Charles which beat Joe Louis. --------------- Was the Ezzard who fought and won this fight quite a bit better than the Charles which fought Rocky in their two meetings?


Charles performance against Joe Louis. ------------- Do you think Ezzards jab, leg movement, torso movement, head movement, chin, and body could have held up against a prime Rocky Marciano?




If so, what do you see happening in this fight?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Charles age was clearly a handicap, he wasn't even near prime when he beat Louis. Marciano would always be coming forward, so an inside fight is likely, I think ezzard would outfight him and use movement and angles to prevent an all out war.

[HomicideHenry]

Charles age was clearly a handicap, he wasn't even near prime when he beat Louis. Marciano would always be coming forward, so an inside fight is likely, I think ezzard would outfight him and use movement and angles to prevent an all out war.

I think Ezzard Charles, would have beaten the prime Louis. If Billy Conn, a top five light heavyweight, almost did, then certainly the greatest light heavyweight of all time (title or no title) would have. Charles had greater punch resistence than Conn, was a superior boxer to Conn (which is quite the feat) and in truth.... what very few fail to ever bring up.... is that Charles never was the same fighter following the death of Sam Baroudi in 1948, he fought a little less aggressive. So one must consider that Charles, less aggressive than previously before, still won the world heavyweight title and gave Marciano the toughest fight of his career, etc.

I love Joe Louis to death, but there are a few heavyweights I see beating him. Charles is one I believe that can, though he's seldom ever recognized for his all-around greatness. I see Dempsey beating Louis, as do I see Marciano and Frazier doing it. I see Muhammad Ali doing it, and I see Evander Holyfield doing it. There's actually more men, I'd make a case for in beating Louis than maybe any other all-time great. Still, accomplishment wise, I still rate Louis #3 in the all-time list.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Charles age was clearly a handicap, he wasn't even near prime when he beat Louis. Marciano would always be coming forward, so an inside fight is likely, I think ezzard would outfight him and use movement and angles to prevent an all out war.

I think Ezzard Charles, would have beaten the prime Louis. If Billy Conn, a top five light heavyweight, almost did, then certainly the greatest light heavyweight of all time (title or no title) would have. Charles had greater punch resistence than Conn, was a superior boxer to Conn (which is quite the feat) and in truth.... what very few fail to ever bring up.... is that Charles never was the same fighter following the death of Sam Baroudi in 1948, he fought a little less aggressive. So one must consider that Charles, less aggressive than previously before, still won the world heavyweight title and gave Marciano the toughest fight of his career, etc.

I love Joe Louis to death, but there are a few heavyweights I see beating him. Charles is one I believe that can, though he's seldom ever recognized for his all-around greatness. I see Dempsey beating Louis, as do I see Marciano and Frazier doing it. I see Muhammad Ali doing it, and I see Evander Holyfield doing it. There's actually more men, I'd make a case for in beating Louis than maybe any other all-time great. Still, accomplishment wise, I still rate Louis #3 in the all-time list.

That's not what we were talking about, but thanks for the quote.

[HomicideHenry]

That's not what we were talking about, but thanks for the quote.

Oh the question was 'prime' Charles and Marciano..... I think, personally, that Marciano's conditioning and work rate was such that it threw off the game plan of many all-time great skilled men.... Archie Moore said fighting Marciano was a nightmare, because it was like fighting a airplane propeller, nonstop punches that broke up your concentration and each one had dynamite on it. Charles, great boxer that he was, superior to Archie, would (in a prime situation) go fifteen rounds with Rocky, and it would be close. Wildly competitive. However, if one looks at the scorecards of their actual fight (first one) Marciano won unaminously and by scores of 9-5, 8-6, 8-5. That's 4 rounds ahead of Charles. I'd suspect in a prime against prime scenario, the fight could have been a draw or a split decision. But I would lean towards Marciano. Why? Quite frankly.... effective aggression, often times weighs more in a fight than anything else, and skilled man that Charles was, at the conclusion he'd still look like he got ran over by a Mack truck.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

A mack truck? marciano almost lost his nose in one of their actual fights.

[HomicideHenry]

A mack truck? marciano almost lost his nose in one of their actual fights.

By an accidental elbow from Charles.... otherwise Marciano was leading on the cards in that fight too.... besides, havent u ever seen pictures of what Charles looked like following the first or second fight? The man looked like the elephant man for crying out loud, swelled up as he was.