john fury

[Taansend]

Henry, you need to let it go mate - I am sure life will get more positive and happy if you do rather than dwelling on stuff that might have hapoened hundreds of years ago and spending your time listening to people telling romanticised tales if a bygone era that never was whilst using selective facts.

I'm sure that's what slave owners said to the Africans, before boarding them on the ships too.

They weren't slave owners before boarding them onto the ships though. They were just thieving c*nts.

[Bricks]

No conjecture, gossip, rumour, badly researched online ‘articles’ FACTS from someone who knew John (we had the same manager at one point) and had the misfortune to spend time with him on many occasions.

Real Name:

The family name is actually PARTRIDGE not Fury.

Bare Knuckle ‘Career’:

Clearly these events are not recorded but as far as I know (and I’ve confirmed this with another Fury cohort) John was known to have a grand total of TWO organised bare knuckle fights, one was broken up by the Police, in the other both Fury and his opponent shook hands and called it a draw as they were both knackered.

Boxing Career:

NEVER scored a stoppage or a knockdown.

Beaten by a part time Rugby player.

Was ‘old manned’ in a Central Area title fight by the ancient cokehead Neil Malpass.

Was rendered unconscious for almost ten minutes by the relatively light hitting Akinwande.

He took a four year break after the Akinwande loss then made a comeback and took on Steve Garber (someone he’d previously beaten) after a decent first round he was systematically outboxed for two rounds before throwing his arms up in surrender and returning to his corner.

Sparring Stories:

He came over to John Celebanski’s gym in Bradford to spar with the aforementioned Steve Garber (this was after their first fight, before the second) Steve suffered a badly cut lower lip after two rounds and curtailed the sparring. MIDDLEWEIGHT Frank Grant asked if he could do a few rounds with Fury. Fury most insulted that a mere Middleweight would dare spar with him went in heavy, the sparring was ‘heated’ to say the least and Frank absolutely battered Fury for two rounds.

In the changing room Fury starts muttering about ‘not being fit/thought he was sparring a heavy/wife had a ‘babby’ due/he’d had a long drive from Haslingden etc etc’ Grant told him to ‘shut his mouth’ (or similar) Fury makes some noise about ‘taking it outside’

You didn’t say that to Frank Grant.

Fury leaves the building Grant follows him outside stripped to the waist in the pouring rain and starts screaming at Fury to fight him, Fury gets in his van muttering about being knackered from the sparring, once again evoking his heavily pregnant wife and the impending ‘babby’, Grant kicks the van door tries to open it, Fury drives off.

I didn’t see this sadly BUT I do have it on good authority from numerous people who witnessed it, Fury went to Leeds to spar with Tom Collins and Carl Gaffney, LIGHTHEAVY Collins knocked him clean out wearing 16oz gloves.

By way of conclusion Gypsy John Partridge (it’s true I swear) is a liar, fantasist, bully and NOTHING like as hard as he would have you believe.

If Fat Mick has any sense, he’ll keep John well away from press conferences, cameras, interviews etc.

You do realise you have reduced Henry to a sniffling, emotional wreck with this new information? I'm actually worried for our resident travelling groupies safety after he reads this. It's worse than the moment we all realised Santa wasn't real

Lol that sounds like bullying johhny fury

[CiganoBoxer]

No conjecture, gossip, rumour, badly researched online ‘articles’ FACTS from someone who knew John (we had the same manager at one point) and had the misfortune to spend time with him on many occasions.

Real Name:

The family name is actually PARTRIDGE not Fury.

Bare Knuckle ‘Career’:

Clearly these events are not recorded but as far as I know (and I’ve confirmed this with another Fury cohort) John was known to have a grand total of TWO organised bare knuckle fights, one was broken up by the Police, in the other both Fury and his opponent shook hands and called it a draw as they were both knackered.

Boxing Career:

NEVER scored a stoppage or a knockdown.

Beaten by a part time Rugby player.

Was ‘old manned’ in a Central Area title fight by the ancient cokehead Neil Malpass.

Was rendered unconscious for almost ten minutes by the relatively light hitting Akinwande.

He took a four year break after the Akinwande loss then made a comeback and took on Steve Garber (someone he’d previously beaten) after a decent first round he was systematically outboxed for two rounds before throwing his arms up in surrender and returning to his corner.

Sparring Stories:

He came over to John Celebanski’s gym in Bradford to spar with the aforementioned Steve Garber (this was after their first fight, before the second) Steve suffered a badly cut lower lip after two rounds and curtailed the sparring. MIDDLEWEIGHT Frank Grant asked if he could do a few rounds with Fury. Fury most insulted that a mere Middleweight would dare spar with him went in heavy, the sparring was ‘heated’ to say the least and Frank absolutely battered Fury for two rounds.

In the changing room Fury starts muttering about ‘not being fit/thought he was sparring a heavy/wife had a ‘babby’ due/he’d had a long drive from Haslingden etc etc’ Grant told him to ‘shut his mouth’ (or similar) Fury makes some noise about ‘taking it outside’

You didn’t say that to Frank Grant.

Fury leaves the building Grant follows him outside stripped to the waist in the pouring rain and starts screaming at Fury to fight him, Fury gets in his van muttering about being knackered from the sparring, once again evoking his heavily pregnant wife and the impending ‘babby’, Grant kicks the van door tries to open it, Fury drives off.

I didn’t see this sadly BUT I do have it on good authority from numerous people who witnessed it, Fury went to Leeds to spar with Tom Collins and Carl Gaffney, LIGHTHEAVY Collins knocked him clean out wearing 16oz gloves.

By way of conclusion Gypsy John Partridge (it’s true I swear) is a liar, fantasist, bully and NOTHING like as hard as he would have you believe.

If Fat Mick has any sense, he’ll keep John well away from press conferences, cameras, interviews etc.

Sounds like bull chit to me

[tedley]

From past experience. Fighting travellers was always easy. There shit poncing around dancing , thinking they are boxers.
Most of them are mouths and when it gets hard they want to call it a draw.

[mickey1975]

I was talking to three travellers today, roughly Gormans age. I asked how good he was, they said "who knows? They never got a chance", hinting at not so fair play. One said the only time he knew of was when Henry Francis beat him up and another said Danny Shenton was head and shoulders above them all. Sorry HH, but that's the opinion of three uk travellers of that era.

[HomicideHenry]

I was talking to three travellers today, roughly Gormans age. I asked how good he was, they said "who knows? They never got a chance", hinting at not so fair play. One said the only time he knew of was when Henry Francis beat him up and another said Danny Shenton was head and shoulders above them all. Sorry HH, but that's the opinion of three uk travellers of that era.

Was essentially a draw. From what I understand Henry got alot of crap from the community for doing the fight, cus Gorman was over 50 at the time and Henry was in his 20's. Police broke it up and both guys were pretty beaten up. As for the other statements in your comment, I do know alot of people tell different stories about different men. Sorta like Henry Francis. According to Gorman, Francis knocked out Jimmy Stockins at a fair with a headbutt. According to Jimmy Stockins that never happened, and that he kicked Francis's ass. Etc etc etc.

I will say, though, as far as Bartley is concerned, I imagine that there was a lot of guys he didn't face, as I am sure he fought alot that others didn't face. In that culture, a man is considered "king" in a number of different ways: the best of his family, the best in the region, the best in the country, the best among all. With Gorman, I am sure he was the best man among his family and was the best in the region. As for the country and of all travellers, a little difficult to say. By the time Gorman was nearing the end of his bareknuckle career, you started seeing Joe Joyce, Aney McGinley, Dan Rooney, etc. and some of the more famous and well documented ones coming around. Gorman did, however, beat Rooney's two brothers and did fight some men from different parts of the country.

Gorman's best attribute was that he knew how to keep his name out in the press, and attract attention to his claim. I'm sure alot of men would have loved a crack at him, but never got the chance. I know I've talked to the likes of Paddy "Jaws" Ward and asked his thoughts on Gorman and he said he wasn't sure just how good he was because from what he ever heard or seen, most of Gorman's fights were draws or came to no conclusion. Then again, Ward is a man in his 30's. What would he know other than the word of family and possible eyewitnesses who may have been biased in their views?

Alot of stories you have to take with a grain of salt. And believe me, some of the tales I don't believe. Though I will say, Gorman would acknowledge in his book that he had alot of luck, and had strange situations which only boosted his legend. Case in point, an excellent example, he said he once fought a man in a barn who looked like Joe Bugner..... and Gorman didn't let anyone think for one minute that it wasn't Joe Bugner.... so when he flattened the man, his reputation grew that he beaten Joe Bugner, when in reality he just beat some Polish gypsy who happened to look like Bugner.

[Tomasino]

I was talking to three travellers today, roughly Gormans age. I asked how good he was, they said "who knows? They never got a chance", hinting at not so fair play. One said the only time he knew of was when Henry Francis beat him up and another said Danny Shenton was head and shoulders above them all. Sorry HH, but that's the opinion of three uk travellers of that era.

Was essentially a draw. From what I understand Henry got alot of crap from the community for doing the fight, cus Gorman was over 50 at the time and Henry was in his 20's. Police broke it up and both guys were pretty beaten up. As for the other statements in your comment, I do know alot of people tell different stories about different men. Sorta like Henry Francis. According to Gorman, Francis knocked out Jimmy Stockins at a fair with a headbutt. According to Jimmy Stockins that never happened, and that he kicked Francis's ass. Etc etc etc.

I will say, though, as far as Bartley is concerned, I imagine that there was a lot of guys he didn't face, as I am sure he fought alot that others didn't face. In that culture, a man is considered "king" in a number of different ways: the best of his family, the best in the region, the best in the country, the best among all. With Gorman, I am sure he was the best man among his family and was the best in the region. As for the country and of all travellers, a little difficult to say. By the time Gorman was nearing the end of his bareknuckle career, you started seeing Joe Joyce, Aney McGinley, Dan Rooney, etc. and some of the more famous and well documented ones coming around. Gorman did, however, beat Rooney's two brothers and did fight some men from different parts of the country.

Gorman's best attribute was that he knew how to keep his name out in the press, and attract attention to his claim. I'm sure alot of men would have loved a crack at him, but never got the chance. I know I've talked to the likes of Paddy "Jaws" Ward and asked his thoughts on Gorman and he said he wasn't sure just how good he was because from what he ever heard or seen, most of Gorman's fights were draws or came to no conclusion. Then again, Ward is a man in his 30's. What would he know other than the word of family and possible eyewitnesses who may have been biased in their views?

Alot of stories you have to take with a grain of salt. And believe me, some of the tales I don't believe. Though I will say, Gorman would acknowledge in his book that he had alot of luck, and had strange situations which only boosted his legend. Case in point, an excellent example, he said he once fought a man in a barn who looked like Joe Bugner..... and Gorman didn't let anyone think for one minute that it wasn't Joe Bugner.... so when he flattened the man, his reputation grew that he beaten Joe Bugner, when in reality he just beat some Polish gypsy who happened to look like Bugner.

Honestly Rufus, you just can't absorb factual information, can you? People who know those you mention are telling it like it is. People from UK, who have direct experience with what you can only babble mindlessly about

[mickey1975]

HH, you are mental. I never even started this conversation with the three men. They were sat in the pub as their camp had been destroyed by flooding in York. Gorman means nothing to them, if you want the truth they were as sceptical as people on here. They named several others who I doubt you'd be aware of as they haven't released books.

[rm1]

A Nathan Gorman has just turned pro as a heavyweight is he related to Bartley ? If so it could be a useful marketing tool at least.

[Stevieb8006]

A Nathan Gorman has just turned pro as a heavyweight is he related to Bartley ? If so it could be a useful marketing tool at least.

He is indeed

[Stevieb8006]

Hang on... I thought HH was done with this thread?

[Cyclops]

I was talking to three travellers today, roughly Gormans age. I asked how good he was, they said "who knows? They never got a chance", hinting at not so fair play. One said the only time he knew of was when Henry Francis beat him up and another said Danny Shenton was head and shoulders above them all. Sorry HH, but that's the opinion of three uk travellers of that era.

Was essentially a draw. From what I understand Henry got alot of crap from the community for doing the fight, cus Gorman was over 50 at the time and Henry was in his 20's. Police broke it up and both guys were pretty beaten up. As for the other statements in your comment, I do know alot of people tell different stories about different men. Sorta like Henry Francis. According to Gorman, Francis knocked out Jimmy Stockins at a fair with a headbutt. According to Jimmy Stockins that never happened, and that he kicked Francis's ass. Etc etc etc.

I will say, though, as far as Bartley is concerned, I imagine that there was a lot of guys he didn't face, as I am sure he fought alot that others didn't face. In that culture, a man is considered "king" in a number of different ways: the best of his family, the best in the region, the best in the country, the best among all. With Gorman, I am sure he was the best man among his family and was the best in the region. As for the country and of all travellers, a little difficult to say. By the time Gorman was nearing the end of his bareknuckle career, you started seeing Joe Joyce, Aney McGinley, Dan Rooney, etc. and some of the more famous and well documented ones coming around. Gorman did, however, beat Rooney's two brothers and did fight some men from different parts of the country.

Gorman's best attribute was that he knew how to keep his name out in the press, and attract attention to his claim. I'm sure alot of men would have loved a crack at him, but never got the chance. I know I've talked to the likes of Paddy "Jaws" Ward and asked his thoughts on Gorman and he said he wasn't sure just how good he was because from what he ever heard or seen, most of Gorman's fights were draws or came to no conclusion. Then again, Ward is a man in his 30's. What would he know other than the word of family and possible eyewitnesses who may have been biased in their views?

Alot of stories you have to take with a grain of salt. And believe me, some of the tales I don't believe. Though I will say, Gorman would acknowledge in his book that he had alot of luck, and had strange situations which only boosted his legend. Case in point, an excellent example, he said he once fought a man in a barn who looked like Joe Bugner..... and Gorman didn't let anyone think for one minute that it wasn't Joe Bugner.... so when he flattened the man, his reputation grew that he beaten Joe Bugner, when in reality he just beat some Polish gypsy who happened to look like Bugner.

I've read King of the Gypsies too and you are literally quoting it like some sort of historian. I'm assuming you've read On the Cobbles too, seeing as you're mentioning Jimmy Stockin now? Henry these kind of books are very popular in the UK and are ten a penny. They started with The Guvnor, the Lenny McClean book where he claims to have never lost a fight amongst other cobblers. We all know he got beat plenty and wasn't even the best in his scene, let alone the best fighter around. But it sold very very well and on the back of that you have a whole genre, blokes who are known for a scrap having autobiographies ghost written. King of the Gypsies is one of the better ones but it is still not a factual verifiable history book, like you seem to think it is. It's a cheap shelf filler. Something a bloke buys at the airport to read on the beach and ends up in the toilet as a mindless page turner to leaf through while you're taking a dump. People who read that sort of stuff and then spout it as fact in the pub are looked on as a bit simple.

I can't even begin to go into the other ridiculous guff you've spouted but my favourite was letting your fantasy gypsies live on your farm. Presumably it's a pretend farm without crops or cattle needing the land? Probably just some empty fields you like looking at and don't have any real need for? I like the bit where they go away for the summer, like birds, to Spain. Why? They just spent all winter on your boggy muddy farm amongst the cabbages. It's actually nice in the UK in the summer and there's no reason to leave. It's just all made up in your head. Even gypsies would scratch their heads at some of the stuff you say, and your beliefs about UK Muslims are repugnant and offensive. Other than that you are hilarious and I look forward to your subsequent posts.

[reggaereggae]

From past experience. Fighting travellers was always easy. There poo poncing around dancing , thinking they are boxers.
Most of them are mouths and when it gets hard they want to call it a draw.

I am not sure I would like to fight one bareknuckle but I have to say I have watched plenty of the gypsy bareknuckle fights on film and loads of them look fat and rubbish at boxing...

[Stevieb8006]

I can't even begin to go into the other ridiculous guff you've spouted but my favourite was letting your fantasy gypsies live on your farm. Presumably it's a pretend farm without crops or cattle needing the land? Probably just some empty fields you like looking at and don't have any real need for? I like the bit where they go away for the summer, like birds, to Spain. Why? They just spent all winter on your boggy muddy farm amongst the cabbages. It's actually nice in the UK in the summer and there's no reason to leave. It's just all made up in your head. Even gypsies would scratch their heads at some of the stuff you say, and your beliefs about UK Muslims are repugnant and offensive. Other than that you are hilarious and I look forward to your subsequent posts.

Without wishing for it to all kick off again, my fav was the "world wide scandal" that Rotherham was a no go area for non Muslims, apparently everyone knows but the people of Rotherham and the rest of the UK. It's amazing and slightly scary how the media abroad can spin such nonsense and people believe it.

Regarding stupid bare knuckle fighting, I've yet to see one where they have any pace or explosiveness whatsoever. A sharp , well trained kid with good footwork and decent jab would utterly brutalise 95% of them. They'd make them work til their blowing out their arse and then unload.

It's just guys like Henry buy into this romantic, macho silliness that they are all honourable tough guys. My traveller family members watched that supposed legend Jimmy stockins get the mother and father of all beatings at a Fair.

I don't know if anyone's watched that awful documentary "gypsy blood" made for the likes of Henry. The guy goes on about fighting honour, tradition etc, and then 3 seconds into a drunken scuffle he wraps a vodka bottle round his opponents head.

[palooka]

I was talking to three travellers today, roughly Gormans age. I asked how good he was, they said "who knows? They never got a chance", hinting at not so fair play. One said the only time he knew of was when Henry Francis beat him up and another said Danny Shenton was head and shoulders above them all. Sorry HH, but that's the opinion of three uk travellers of that era.

Shenton's from Doncaster, Henry Francis' brothers, Charlie and (the late) Michael lived in Doncaster.

[palooka]

I was talking to three travellers today, roughly Gormans age. I asked how good he was, they said "who knows? They never got a chance", hinting at not so fair play. One said the only time he knew of was when Henry Francis beat him up and another said Danny Shenton was head and shoulders above them all. Sorry HH, but that's the opinion of three uk travellers of that era.

Was essentially a draw. From what I understand Henry got alot of crap from the community for doing the fight, cus Gorman was over 50 at the time and Henry was in his 20's. Police broke it up and both guys were pretty beaten up. As for the other statements in your comment, I do know alot of people tell different stories about different men. Sorta like Henry Francis. According to Gorman, Francis knocked out Jimmy Stockins at a fair with a headbutt. According to Jimmy Stockins that never happened, and that he kicked Francis's ass. Etc etc etc.

I will say, though, as far as Bartley is concerned, I imagine that there was a lot of guys he didn't face, as I am sure he fought alot that others didn't face. In that culture, a man is considered "king" in a number of different ways: the best of his family, the best in the region, the best in the country, the best among all. With Gorman, I am sure he was the best man among his family and was the best in the region. As for the country and of all travellers, a little difficult to say. By the time Gorman was nearing the end of his bareknuckle career, you started seeing Joe Joyce, Aney McGinley, Dan Rooney, etc. and some of the more famous and well documented ones coming around. Gorman did, however, beat Rooney's two brothers and did fight some men from different parts of the country.

Gorman's best attribute was that he knew how to keep his name out in the press, and attract attention to his claim. I'm sure alot of men would have loved a crack at him, but never got the chance. I know I've talked to the likes of Paddy "Jaws" Ward and asked his thoughts on Gorman and he said he wasn't sure just how good he was because from what he ever heard or seen, most of Gorman's fights were draws or came to no conclusion. Then again, Ward is a man in his 30's. What would he know other than the word of family and possible eyewitnesses who may have been biased in their views?

Alot of stories you have to take with a grain of salt. And believe me, some of the tales I don't believe. Though I will say, Gorman would acknowledge in his book that he had alot of luck, and had strange situations which only boosted his legend. Case in point, an excellent example, he said he once fought a man in a barn who looked like Joe Bugner..... and Gorman didn't let anyone think for one minute that it wasn't Joe Bugner.... so when he flattened the man, his reputation grew that he beaten Joe Bugner, when in reality he just beat some Polish gypsy who happened to look like Bugner.

I spoke to one of the Gaskins in The Plough in Doncaster, he said the famous incident at the St Leger meeting in '76 was over exaggerated.

[Cyclops]

I can't even begin to go into the other ridiculous guff you've spouted but my favourite was letting your fantasy gypsies live on your farm. Presumably it's a pretend farm without crops or cattle needing the land? Probably just some empty fields you like looking at and don't have any real need for? I like the bit where they go away for the summer, like birds, to Spain. Why? They just spent all winter on your boggy muddy farm amongst the cabbages. It's actually nice in the UK in the summer and there's no reason to leave. It's just all made up in your head. Even gypsies would scratch their heads at some of the stuff you say, and your beliefs about UK Muslims are repugnant and offensive. Other than that you are hilarious and I look forward to your subsequent posts.

Without wishing for it to all kick off again, my fav was the "world wide scandal" that Rotherham was a no go area for non Muslims, apparently everyone knows but the people of Rotherham and the rest of the UK. It's amazing and slightly scary how the media abroad can spin such nonsense and people believe it.

Regarding stupid bare knuckle fighting, I've yet to see one where they have any pace or explosiveness whatsoever. A sharp , well trained kid with good footwork and decent jab would utterly brutalise 95% of them. They'd make them work til their blowing out their arse and then unload.

It's just guys like Henry buy into this romantic, macho silliness that they are all honourable tough guys. My traveller family members watched that supposed legend Jimmy stockins get the mother and father of all beatings at a Fair.

I don't know if anyone's watched that awful documentary "gypsy blood" made for the likes of Henry. The guy goes on about fighting honour, tradition etc, and then 3 seconds into a drunken scuffle he wraps a vodka bottle round his opponents head.

I barely saw anything I recognized in those films, or in the Big Fat Gypsy Wedding stuff I saw on TV. I thought Snatch was bollocks as well, as did my traveller friends who were not impressed by how "they showed the Irish".

I never heard anything about organized bare knuckle fights when I hung around the gypsies that I knew to be honest. They used to get into fights and cause trouble, but most of them weren't physically particularly big, and more often than not if there was trouble it was settled with numbers or failing that some kind of tool. I don't really ever remember a fair fight. Such a thing did not exist. There was no association with fairness, quite the opposite in fact. You knew not to fight a traveller because they would keep coming and coming until you lost. The only way to win was to either be extremely big, violent and frightening yourself (as was the older brother of an extremely fit girl I knew, who glassed and beat up one of the more notorious travellers in our local pub and received no comebacks, as he was more frightening than any of the travellers) or to use some sort of extreme method to 'end it' (I knew a lad who ran over a traveller that was threatening him). Other than that you said "sorry" and looked at the floor. Should I say this again? FAIR FIGHTS DID NOT EXIST. Maybe traveller against traveller, but certainly as a gorger you could never expect to hear the end of it until you lost, by fair means or fowl. But they didn't care about organized fights at all. It was never mentioned. They were more interested in watching Eastenders.

They did garage clearances and stuff. They might have had big gold chains but they were in no way shape or form rich. When I see the Fury's on TV I am struck by how well spoken they are. My old friends were English Romany and would need subtitles on TV, absolutely. They were very rough.

I remember my roof needing doing so I put out the shout and was inundated by phonecalls from traveller lads with flatbeds. I had a few round to give me quotes out of interest. They were all friendly and nice enough but they spun me some atrocious bollocks and clearly none of them knew how to do the job. They all wanted me to agree to have it done the next day as well. "I'll do you this price so long as you agree and shake me hand and say that I can start the work tomorrow." I kept one of the quotes. It was for "sludging" my roof. I have never heard of this before or since. I thought it was hilarious. I googled it and everything because I thought I was going mad. I ended up getting a normal reputable roofing firm in, and probably saved myself some money. NOTHING the traveller lads quoted me as needing doing actually needed to be done.

Not all of them were like that and I knew traveller lads who had more education and were good at their trades and good at earning money. This is the side of the culture that you'll hear less about though because this is not what people are interested in. All people want to know about is the fighting and girls in stupid wedding dresses. For the most part it isn't like that and it's deeply mundane and boring. Yes, we sometimes sat around a big fire with some tins which has a certain romance about it but other times we just sat watching TV drinking tea and smoking weed and I had to read the subtitles out for them. All in all it was quite boring and mundane and the only times it was 'interesting' in any way was when there was some sort of ugliness. Ultimately, I really don't think there's that much 'secret' to know.

The 'values' Henry seems to love so much and sees his hero's as embodying are very conservative: Christian, women in the kitchen, down with homosexuality. A mistrust of intellectualism. ('you won't learn anything from a book") An emphasis on being 'the strongest', you look after yours and your own, (the "I never even took an aspirin" line seems odd, like I have never expected anything from your society, like society is a bad thing. It's GOOD that we pay taxes and have free health care, police, fire service, roads, all these things that keep our society together. If you are poor we will look after you in this country. This is right. This is fair. Normal people fight over scraps and are conditioned to blame the weakest- gypsies included- rather than ask the people with the most to share). At first I thought it was strange that an American would be so behind Tyson Fury, but I see now how the mythology could fit so well into the conservative God fearing Muslim bashing Donald Trump Fox News word view. Some strong tough good God fearing white folks! And they're our Native Americans to boot! Yes this is Henry's fantasy, but you can see why.

[Coco]

Gypsy boys making up stories!!
Unbelievable!!

[JC]

Gorman's best attribute was that he knew how to keep his name out in the press, and attract attention to his claim. I'm sure alot of men would have loved a crack at him, but never got the chance. I know I've talked to the likes of Paddy "Jaws" Ward and asked his thoughts on Gorman and he said he wasn't sure just how good he was because from what he ever heard or seen, most of Gorman's fights were draws or came to no conclusion. Then again, Ward is a man in his 30's. What would he know other than the word of family and possible eyewitnesses who may have been biased in their views?

Indeed.

[mickey1975]

From past experience. Fighting travellers was always easy. There poo poncing around dancing , thinking they are boxers.
Most of them are mouths and when it gets hard they want to call it a draw.

I am not sure I would like to fight one bareknuckle but I have to say I have watched plenty of the gypsy bareknuckle fights on film and loads of them look fat and rubbish at boxing...

Smith v Mason on YouTube is quality. Hosea Burton appears on it. McGinley v Price (a decent amateur) in a shopping centre is good when the bullying Mcginley gets a shock when Price knows what he's doing.

[Counter-puncher]

The 'values' Henry seems to love so much and sees his hero's as embodying are very conservative: Christian, women in the kitchen, down with homosexuality. A mistrust of intellectualism. ('you won't learn anything from a book") An emphasis on being 'the strongest', you look after yours and your own, (the "I never even took an aspirin" line seems odd, like I have never expected anything from your society, like society is a bad thing. It's GOOD that we pay taxes and have free health care, police, fire service, roads, all these things that keep our society together. If you are poor we will look after you in this country. This is right. This is fair. Normal people fight over scraps and are conditioned to blame the weakest- gypsies included- rather than ask the people with the most to share). At first I thought it was strange that an American would be so behind Tyson Fury, but I see now how the mythology could fit so well into the conservative God fearing Muslim bashing Donald Trump Fox News word view. Some strong tough good God fearing white folks! And they're our Native Americans to boot! Yes this is Henry's fantasy, but you can see why.

excellent post

[rubberneck]

A Nathan Gorman has just turned pro as a heavyweight is he related to Bartley ? If so it could be a useful marketing tool at least.

He is indeed

He's one to watch. Won the youth ABAs and represented GB at the youth worlds a couple years ago. He won both his contests but had to pull out before the quarterfinals due to a broken jaw. Very quick hands and feet for someone so big.

He and his trainer came down to the Salisbury gym looking for sparring one saturday, but an ABA coaching course was on at the time. No one could believe he was only 17 years old (6'5" and over 17st.)

[chiggsy]

From past experience. Fighting travellers was always easy. There poo poncing around dancing , thinking they are boxers.
Most of them are mouths and when it gets hard they want to call it a draw.

I am not sure I would like to fight one bareknuckle but I have to say I have watched plenty of the gypsy bareknuckle fights on film and loads of them look fat and rubbish at boxing...

Smith v Mason on YouTube is quality. Hosea Burton appears on it. McGinley v Price (a decent amateur) in a shopping centre is good when the bullying Mcginley gets a shock when Price knows what he's doing.

The mcginleys (aneys sons) seem like a really unpleasant bunch.

Think simey mcg is supposed to be fighting joe joyce jnr this sunday but simey is always mouthing off and then making excuses for not showing up on the day.

[rm1]

A Nathan Gorman has just turned pro as a heavyweight is he related to Bartley ? If so it could be a useful marketing tool at least.

He is indeed

He's one to watch. Won the youth ABAs and represented GB at the youth worlds a couple years ago. He won both his contests but had to pull out before the quarterfinals due to a broken jaw. Very quick hands and feet for someone so big.

He and his trainer came down to the Salisbury gym looking for sparring one saturday, but an ABA coaching course was on at the time. No one could believe he was only 17 years old (6'5" and over 17st.)

so is he Bartley's grandson or related to his brother who was also a decent fighter ?

[manno]

I was talking to three travellers today, roughly Gormans age. I asked how good he was, they said "who knows? They never got a chance", hinting at not so fair play. One said the only time he knew of was when Henry Francis beat him up and another said Danny Shenton was head and shoulders above them all. Sorry HH, but that's the opinion of three uk travellers of that era.

Was essentially a draw. From what I understand Henry got alot of crap from the community for doing the fight, cus Gorman was over 50 at the time and Henry was in his 20's. Police broke it up and both guys were pretty beaten up. As for the other statements in your comment, I do know alot of people tell different stories about different men. Sorta like Henry Francis. According to Gorman, Francis knocked out Jimmy Stockins at a fair with a headbutt. According to Jimmy Stockins that never happened, and that he kicked Francis's ass. Etc etc etc.

I will say, though, as far as Bartley is concerned, I imagine that there was a lot of guys he didn't face, as I am sure he fought alot that others didn't face. In that culture, a man is considered "king" in a number of different ways: the best of his family, the best in the region, the best in the country, the best among all. With Gorman, I am sure he was the best man among his family and was the best in the region. As for the country and of all travellers, a little difficult to say. By the time Gorman was nearing the end of his bareknuckle career, you started seeing Joe Joyce, Aney McGinley, Dan Rooney, etc. and some of the more famous and well documented ones coming around. Gorman did, however, beat Rooney's two brothers and did fight some men from different parts of the country.

Gorman's best attribute was that he knew how to keep his name out in the press, and attract attention to his claim. I'm sure alot of men would have loved a crack at him, but never got the chance. I know I've talked to the likes of Paddy "Jaws" Ward and asked his thoughts on Gorman and he said he wasn't sure just how good he was because from what he ever heard or seen, most of Gorman's fights were draws or came to no conclusion. Then again, Ward is a man in his 30's. What would he know other than the word of family and possible eyewitnesses who may have been biased in their views?

Alot of stories you have to take with a grain of salt. And believe me, some of the tales I don't believe. Though I will say, Gorman would acknowledge in his book that he had alot of luck, and had strange situations which only boosted his legend. Case in point, an excellent example, he said he once fought a man in a barn who looked like Joe Bugner..... and Gorman didn't let anyone think for one minute that it wasn't Joe Bugner.... so when he flattened the man, his reputation grew that he beaten Joe Bugner, when in reality he just beat some Polish gypsy who happened to look like Bugner.

I spoke to one of the Gaskins in The Plough in Doncaster, he said the famous incident at the St Leger meeting in '76 was over exaggerated.

was it Terrace, palooka?