Some boxers surprise you-Groves

[dalcumly]

I've got to disagree with the last post. He picked Fitzpatrick as his trainer. We've got to ask why Booth wasn't at the gym for him?
I opened this thread NOT to question his boxing ability, just his overall attitude. I agree that lots of boxers seem to have large ego's but to consistently blame other people for your defeats and to pass comments like he did regarding Frampton being a pay per view fighter while he isn't, is just simply arrogance behind belief. Was there any need to make such critical comments about DeGale.
As I said earlier I never really understood Froch's lasting hatred of Groves - its pretty obvious now.
I don't recall Groves receiving persistently bad press, indeed I was getting fed up with him constantly appearing on the front covers of Boxing News in weeks where British boxers were winning/defending world title fights ( Ricky Burns for one).
If this interview caught Groves on a bad day - then let him come out and explain himself, but do I see that happening -not a chance.

[nitro5912]

I've got to disagree with the last post. He picked Fitzpatrick as his trainer. We've got to ask why Booth wasn't at the gym for him?
I opened this thread NOT to question his boxing ability, just his overall attitude. I agree that lots of boxers seem to have large ego's but to consistently blame other people for your defeats and to pass comments like he did regarding Frampton being a pay per view fighter while he isn't, is just simply arrogance behind belief. Was there any need to make such critical comments about DeGale.
As I said earlier I never really understood Froch's lasting hatred of Groves - its pretty obvious now.
I don't recall Groves receiving persistently bad press, indeed I was getting fed up with him constantly appearing on the front covers of Boxing News in weeks where British boxers were winning/defending world title fights ( Ricky Burns for one).
If this interview caught Groves on a bad day - then let him come out and explain himself, but do I see that happening -not a chance.

Couldn't that be frustration or ambition to reach that level. ive not read the interview but if I saw someone who I trained with as PPV id be like holy cow he is a PPV fighter, maybe I can get back there.

Oddly he is in a gym with Frampton on PPV fighting for unification v quigg on Sky, but also a semi retired haye who is fighting someone no one has heard off if roumers are to be true on a streamed fight on youtube. Must be quite weird being in the middle

[johnswan1]

Problem with Groves is that he's a terribly sore loser. He came back too quickly after the second Froch defeat, put in a poor performance and immediately afterwards started asking the ringside Froch for a third fight. He believed he was a lot better than he really is.

He clearly thought he only needed to turn up on the night to beat Jack and then stormed out of the ring on his own after losing a split decision complaining he had been robbed. He then deleted his Twitter account, immediately abandoning his "huge" support of gingerbread men followers. Where are they now? How does he interact with all of these fans these days?

Bottom line, Groves has gone backwards, and what a bitter pill to swallow if he was given a chance of redemption against DeGale and lost that one too? He's a lost cause. He has to be questioning his own ability now. Froch ruined him.

[salaambrown]

Problem with Groves is that he's a terribly sore loser. He came back too quickly after the second Froch defeat, put in a poor performance and immediately afterwards started asking the ringside Froch for a third fight. He believed he was a lot better than he really is.

He clearly thought he only needed to turn up on the night to beat Jack and then stormed out of the ring on his own after losing a split decision complaining he had been robbed. He then deleted his Twitter account, immediately abandoning his "huge" support of gingerbread men followers. Where are they now? How does he interact with all of these fans these days?

Bottom line, Groves has gone backwards, and what a bitter pill to swallow if he was given a chance of redemption against DeGale and lost that one too? He's a lost cause. He has to be questioning his own ability now. Froch ruined him.

I have to agree with most of that. The bitterness is quite sad to see coming from him. It hurts to lose to a rival especially in a historical fight breaking attendance records etc. He doesn't seem to be that dedicated outside of his 8 week camps. Comes in too heavy when not training.
Doesn't seem to have worked on his boxing brain/ ring generalship.
He took Froch lightly the second time (he thought he had to turn up to win), he also took Jack lightly (told Paddy that he was annoyed that Paddy rated Jack) and he will once again take Callum Smith lightly and will most likely come up short. He probably thinks i'll smash C.Smith in two rounds, Smith is a decent fighter.

[baron_otto]

I largely agree with the comments so far. Groves has gone down in my estimation of late and needs to stop complaining.

But.. I suspect part of his poorer performances in the ring are down to his change in trainer. Obviously I don't know what goes on behind closed doors and maybe what Fitzpatrick does just doesn't suit Groves. I'll be interested to see how he performs now he's back in the gym with Haye and a new trainer. I hope he returns to form and it would be great to have plenty of Brits competing for titles and in big fights

[Pugilist-specialist]

But compare the two after the rematch was announced, Groves complained, got beat and never improved and still moans about one thing or another, Smith got the rematch lost over another 12 rounds competitively and accepted the result and now is slowly making his way back up.

Paul Smith turned up grossly overweight and lost his next fight and hasn't boxed since - hardly making his way back up.

[mickey1975]

But compare the two after the rematch was announced, Groves complained, got beat and never improved and still moans about one thing or another, Smith got the rematch lost over another 12 rounds competitively and accepted the result and now is slowly making his way back up.

Paul Smith turned up grossly overweight and lost his next fight and hasn't boxed since - hardly making his way back up.

He turned up grossly overweight for his next fight and got a good hiding.

[freddydoesdallas]

Problem with Groves is that he's a terribly sore loser. He came back too quickly after the second Froch defeat, put in a poor performance and immediately afterwards started asking the ringside Froch for a third fight. He believed he was a lot better than he really is.

He clearly thought he only needed to turn up on the night to beat Jack and then stormed out of the ring on his own after losing a split decision complaining he had been robbed. He then deleted his Twitter account, immediately abandoning his "huge" support of gingerbread men followers. Where are they now? How does he interact with all of these fans these days?

Bottom line, Groves has gone backwards, and what a bitter pill to swallow if he was given a chance of redemption against DeGale and lost that one too? He's a lost cause. He has to be questioning his own ability now. Froch ruined him.

Is he back on social media yet? He needs to be in my view as he doesn't have a hardcore of fans more just a large number of followers of whom some may buy tickets

[martinmrts]

Generally speaking he's handled himself with class.

surely he was a massive tool in the run-ups to both Froch fights

[CaptainSpacerod]

Generally speaking he's handled himself with class.

surely he was a massive tool in the run-ups to both Froch fights

He did some silly things I agree but arguably Froch was much worse with his childish bad breath comments and his shove and worst of all letting fat Lee embarrass the whole Froch family.

To a certain extent acting like a bit of a knob goes with the territory in the build up to big fights today. Needle, whether real or contrived, puts bums on seats.

[handsofstone]

Generally speaking he's handled himself with class.

surely he was a massive tool in the run-ups to both Froch fights

Maybe but he has impeccable dress sense

[craig_minter]

Was a really big George fan...

But since the loss to Jack I haven't been impressed with his attitude, at least say thank you to the fans for travelling to Vegas to see you rather than running away and jumping off twitter.

It's hard to defend the BN interview, hopefully Shane gets him to take some real responsibility for his own boxing and gets him to stick to what he is good at which is something Paddy struggled with letting the attitude get worse and not focusing on his boxing strengths.

[salaambrown]

Was a really big George fan...

But since the loss to Jack I haven't been impressed with his attitude, at least say thank you to the fans for travelling to Vegas to see you rather than running away and jumping off twitter.

It's hard to defend the BN interview, hopefully Shane gets him to take some real responsibility for his own boxing and gets him to stick to what he is good at which is something Paddy struggled with letting the attitude get worse and not focusing on his boxing strengths.

That really angered a lot of people. A simple thank you from Groves would have been respectful, nice and kind.
He wouldn't have left Paddy had they won the WBC, the guy likes his comfort zone. Staying at home whilst in camp. If he really listened to advice he would have split from Paddy after the Rebrasse fight. I heard the Sauerlands wanted Paddy out ASAP Groves wouldnt let him go.

[Bodyshot3]

It is a good thread and thanks to Dalcumly for getting it rolling.....but what now interests me going forwards is how Shane and Barry are going to handle a talented but also very spikey/stubborn guy who is arguably one bad night away from becoming a well-paid, gatekeeper.

Frampton is from their neck of the woods and they've guided him almost from the start in terms of his boxing, choice of fights, lifestyle and how he conducts himself beyond the ring. It's almost a more enlightened/modern form of Eastwood micro-managing Barry to the top.

But now they've got Groves - a totally different project in just about every respect - and I am fascinated as to how they will play things.

Will it be a question of some harsh, home truths being put down and then applying a non-negotiable 'tough love regime' that George either follows to the letter or bails out from? Or will they just make some adjustments and not take the Ground Zero option?

I

[whiskey]

As cocksure as George can be, even he must realise now deep down that it's on his shoulders to get back to form.

If excuses were chocolate, Groves would be Willy Wonka lately.

I hope he can get his head together, get down to some hard work and regain some of his old self back. Results and not strops are the only way he can get supporters back on side again. He's still young and hopefully can try and learn from the past 2 years.

[MarkMcBurney]

As cocksure as George can be, even he must realise now deep down that it's on his shoulders to get back to form.

If excuses were chocolate, Groves would be Willy Wonka lately.

I hope he can get his head together, get down to some hard work and regain some of his old self back. Results and not strops are the only way he can get supporters back on side again.

Agree with this. I'm intrigued as Groves has the technical ability to cause any super middleweight problems, but his attitude has been questionable.

If he can nail the attitude, he could be a genuine force amongst the elite at 168lb in my opinion. Even though he detested him, even Froch paid compliment to his ability.

[whiskey]

Agree with this. I'm intrigued as Groves has the technical ability to cause any super middleweight problems, but his attitude has been questionable.

If he can nail the attitude, he could be a genuine force amongst the elite at 168lb in my opinion. Even though he detested him, even Froch paid compliment to his ability.

As poisonous as it sometimes got before the Wembley fight, upon reflection Carl would be the first to tell you that Groves played a great role in the success of the whole event.

You'd only have to revisit a few threads in the months before to see that even fans were locking horns over every part of it. Even down to "who won" their TV appearances together.

Regardless what our personal opinions are on them as individuals may be, you have to hand it to both of them (especially Groves) for the frenzied build-up.

In closing, I do feel that deep down the whole occasion took it's toll on both fighters, but because Froch got the win, any mental baggage from the build-up was lifted from him on the night. But the loser was always going to lose a piece of themselves and be somewhat broken.

[cocobongo]

I can use Paul Smith as an example, he lost to both Degale and Groves but he didn't complain and moan and make excuses he went back to British level and eventually won the British Title and fought Arthur Abraham not once but twice because the first fight was so close to call.
Again using him as an example he might not have won the title

but did he complain or moan like Groves

.

Of course he did, he's a scouser, he probably blamed Hillsborough and the Thatcher government of the eighties for the Abraham judging, whilst making a big thing about not buying the Sun and saying how much he loves his nan

I may be the most bitter Evertonian ever and I couldn't be further away from a Paul Smith fan! but any reference to Hillsborough and a joke is disgusting

[nitro5912]

Agree with this. I'm intrigued as Groves has the technical ability to cause any super middleweight problems, but his attitude has been questionable.

If he can nail the attitude, he could be a genuine force amongst the elite at 168lb in my opinion. Even though he detested him, even Froch paid compliment to his ability.

As poisonous as it sometimes got before the Wembley fight, upon reflection Carl would be the first to tell you that Groves played a great role in the success of the whole event.

You'd only have to revisit a few threads in the months before to see that even fans were locking horns over every part of it. Even down to "who won" their TV appearances together.

Regardless what our personal opinions are on them as individuals may be, you have to hand it to both of them (especially Groves) for the frenzied build-up.

In closing, I do feel that deep down the whole occasion took it's toll on both fighters, but because Froch got the win, any mental baggage from the build-up was lifted from him on the night. But the loser was always going to lose a piece of themselves and be somewhat broken.

I think the bit in bold is why we didn't see carl fight again. He left on a high after a poisonous build up that saw him seeing a sports therapist. It couldn't have been easy for him.

George didn't take enough time out to assess the situation and deal with the fallout. If he is struggling mentally then he needs to ask for the number of the guy who calmed carl down because technically he can fight but he is missing something since wembley

[Hinchy70]

I think the bit in bold is why we didn't see carl fight again. He left on a high after a poisonous build up that saw him seeing a sports therapist. It couldn't have been easy for him.

George didn't take enough time out to assess the situation and deal with the fallout. If he is struggling mentally then he needs to ask for the number of the guy who calmed carl down because technically he can fight but he is missing something since wembley

I too agree with this, it seems as if George has never moved on, and his attitude after the first fight, which hyped the Wembley fight to his credit, seems to have sub-consciously been set in his mind too. The deleting of his twitter, storming out of the ring against Jack and the constant narcissistic deflecting of blame, (Booth, Fitzpatrick, Howard Foster and the judges at the Jack fight) are just some examples of this.

It's almost like George feels that throwing the toys out of the pram and crying wolf will land him on PPV in a massive fight again, but evidently the only effect it is having is a detrimental one to his mental strength and one can assume his confidence.

However its well documented that George is a phenomenal 6-8 round fighter, and if in ghe next to 6-12 months he can finally move on from the Froch saga mentally then who is to say that he wouldn't be a favourite against Abraham? Chudinov? or even Brahmer at 175?

[Boxerbeetle]

I too agree with this, it seems as if George has never moved on, and his attitude after the first fight, which hyped the Wembley fight to his credit, seems to have sub-consciously been set in his mind too. The deleting of his twitter, storming out of the ring against Jack and the constant narcissistic deflecting of blame, (Booth, Fitzpatrick, Howard Foster and the judges at the Jack fight) are just some examples of this.

It's almost like George feels that throwing the toys out of the pram and crying wolf will land him on PPV in a massive fight again, but evidently the only effect it is having is a detrimental one to his mental strength and one can assume his confidence.

However its well documented that George is a phenomenal 6-8 round fighter, and if in ghe next to 6-12 months he can finally move on from the Froch saga mentally then who is to say that he wouldn't be a favourite against Abraham? Chudinov? or even Brahmer at 175?

I don't particularly rate Abraham or Braehmer, but I think they would be nightmares for Groves' style.

[Hinchy70]

I too agree with this, it seems as if George has never moved on, and his attitude after the first fight, which hyped the Wembley fight to his credit, seems to have sub-consciously been set in his mind too. The deleting of his twitter, storming out of the ring against Jack and the constant narcissistic deflecting of blame, (Booth, Fitzpatrick, Howard Foster and the judges at the Jack fight) are just some examples of this.

It's almost like George feels that throwing the toys out of the pram and crying wolf will land him on PPV in a massive fight again, but evidently the only effect it is having is a detrimental one to his mental strength and one can assume his confidence.

However its well documented that George is a phenomenal 6-8 round fighter, and if in ghe next to 6-12 months he can finally move on from the Froch saga mentally then who is to say that he wouldn't be a favourite against Abraham? Chudinov? or even Brahmer at 175?

I don't particularly rate Abraham or Braehmer, but I think they would be nightmares for Groves' style.

would Abraham's robotic style not suit groves? for 8 rounds I can imagine Groves working the angles and dominating Abraham with a right hook to body/head. We saw what Groves did to a lethargic Froch first time around.

[Boxerbeetle]

I too agree with this, it seems as if George has never moved on, and his attitude after the first fight, which hyped the Wembley fight to his credit, seems to have sub-consciously been set in his mind too. The deleting of his twitter, storming out of the ring against Jack and the constant narcissistic deflecting of blame, (Booth, Fitzpatrick, Howard Foster and the judges at the Jack fight) are just some examples of this.

It's almost like George feels that throwing the toys out of the pram and crying wolf will land him on PPV in a massive fight again, but evidently the only effect it is having is a detrimental one to his mental strength and one can assume his confidence.

However its well documented that George is a phenomenal 6-8 round fighter, and if in ghe next to 6-12 months he can finally move on from the Froch saga mentally then who is to say that he wouldn't be a favourite against Abraham? Chudinov? or even Brahmer at 175?

I don't particularly rate Abraham or Braehmer, but I think they would be nightmares for Groves' style.

would Abraham's robotic style not suit groves? for 8 rounds I can imagine Groves working the angles and dominating Abraham with a right hook to body/head. We saw what Groves did to a lethargic Froch first time around.

Possibly for 8 rounds, but I could see Abraham-Groves going much the same way as Abraham-Taylor.

[Hinchy70]

I don't particularly rate Abraham or Braehmer, but I think they would be nightmares for Groves' style.

would Abraham's robotic style not suit groves? for 8 rounds I can imagine Groves working the angles and dominating Abraham with a right hook to body/head. We saw what Groves did to a lethargic Froch first time around.

Possibly for 8 rounds, but I could see Abraham-Groves going much the same way as Abraham-Taylor.

Abraham hasn't shown that sort of One punch power since, really think Abraham would be Groves' easiest fight for a world title providing he finds the cure to his stamina issues.

[Boxerbeetle]

Possibly for 8 rounds, but I could see Abraham-Groves going much the same way as Abraham-Taylor.

Abraham hasn't shown that sort of One punch power since, really think Abraham would be Groves' easiest fight for a world title providing he finds the cure to his stamina issues.

Maybe, although he stopped Stiglitz pretty emphatically. I agree that Groves would have a very good chance if he could sort his stamina out, but that's a very big ask.