Ken Norton was one of Muhammad Ali's toughest opponents.

[psychod1986]

Every time i seen a Norton & Ali fight it was toe to for toe and blow for blow,this guy really gave his all in every 3 of the fights,I also seen how Norton broke Ali's jaw in the first fight but Ali revenge that loss by beating him twice with two decision wins.I don't take nothing away from Ken Norton,he was a tough guy he fought his heart out.

[elmersalsa]

In my view, Ali lost all 3 bouts with Ken

[psychod1986]

I don't think Ali lost the 3rd bout in my view it was a draw.

[ListonGrandson]

My grandfather Sonny Liston's never released autopsy report can be found on my blog, lynelgardner. WordPress.com, my book "Beast: The Deconstruction of Charles"Sonny" Liston," can be found on Amazon. My facebook page is Sonny Liston Athlete.

[psychod1986]

In my view, Ali lost all 3 bouts with Ken

I could you say ali lost all 3 of the bouts i positively believe Ali won the second fight.

[Ambling Alp II]

Agreed. The first fight Norton deservedly won. The second Ali deservedly won. The third could have gone either way. None were in Ali's prime.

[BoxBuzz]

Eddie Futch did a masterful job educating Kenny on just what to do. And Kudo's to Kenny for listening and giving it his best.

Neither man ever clearly got the better of the other.....and that says it all.

Everyone has a different opinion on those fights.

Elmer says Norton.. 3 Ali... 0

Many honestly think Ali won all 3. Don't ask me how they justify calling that first fight for Ali, but I've seen it right here.

Many think it's just as it is on the record books. Ali 2 Norton 1

My take.... is 1-1-1. With the last fight a draw. But not one of them was outlandish in it's outcome. Just close fights.

If Ali really fought with a broken jaw for most of the first fight, then he gets kudos once again for legendary toughness.
Something along the lines of getting up after Joe dropped him and him coming back and staying competitively engaged.

In my opinion, the only Losses that Ali had that were clear were Norton 1 Spinks 1, Holmes and Berbick. And the judges called them correctly. I think Young comes up quite often, but seriously, Young compromised the outcome himself with his behavior. He has only himself to blame, And if Lyle was about to make his big comeback, he should have "protected himself at all times" Which he did not do.

[cfang]

I think all 3 decisions were correct. You only have to look at the norton/holmes fight to see how dangerous norton was when not in with an enormous puncher. Its funny though apart from the first ali fight, Ken hardly has a decent win. Young and Quarry being the only notable ones.

[Ambling Alp II]

It's Ali though buzz, anything goes. I have seen people argue Evangelista, the second Spinks fight, Shavers. Chuvalo II was even brought up in 2015. The Henry Cooper deal, don't forget the referee didn't count to 10 against Foreman. It has a life of it's own.

[handsofstone]

Watched them all recently for the 1st time,i never seen scored any of them but they were all piss poor IMO and i wont be in a hurry to watch them again

Ive said it once and i'll say it again,post exile Ali was fecking brutal to watch

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Norton handily won the first and third fights, the second was very close.

[BoxBuzz]

Norton handily won the first and third fights, the second was very close.

Ah....so finally...it's settled. I'll alert the media.

[yancey]

Norton handily won the first and third fights, the second was very close.

This.

[yancey]

Eddie Futch did a masterful job educating Kenny on just what to do. And Kudo's to Kenny for listening and giving it his best.

Neither man ever clearly got the better of the other.....and that says it all.

Everyone has a different opinion on those fights.

Elmer says Norton.. 3 Ali... 0

Many honestly think Ali won all 3. Don't ask me how they justify calling that first fight for Ali, but I've seen it right here.

Many think it's just as it is on the record books. Ali 2 Norton 1

My take.... is 1-1-1. With the last fight a draw. But not one of them was outlandish in it's outcome. Just close fights.

If Ali really fought with a broken jaw for most of the first fight, then he gets kudos once again for legendary toughness.
Something along the lines of getting up after Joe dropped him and him coming back and staying competitively engaged.

In my opinion, the only Losses that Ali had that were clear were Norton 1 Spinks 1, Holmes and Berbick. And the judges called them correctly. I think Young comes up quite often, but seriously, Young compromised the outcome himself with his behavior. He has only himself to blame, And if Lyle was about to make his big comeback, he should have "protected himself at all times" Which he did not do.

The FOTC was not a clear Ali loss???

[elmersalsa]

Eddie Futch did a masterful job educating Kenny on just what to do. And Kudo's to Kenny for listening and giving it his best.

Neither man ever clearly got the better of the other.....and that says it all.

Everyone has a different opinion on those fights.

Elmer says Norton.. 3 Ali... 0

Many honestly think Ali won all 3. Don't ask me how they justify calling that first fight for Ali, but I've seen it right here.

Many think it's just as it is on the record books. Ali 2 Norton 1

My take.... is 1-1-1. With the last fight a draw. But not one of them was outlandish in it's outcome. Just close fights.

If Ali really fought with a broken jaw for most of the first fight, then he gets kudos once again for legendary toughness.
Something along the lines of getting up after Joe dropped him and him coming back and staying competitively engaged.

In my opinion, the only Losses that Ali had that were clear were Norton 1 Spinks 1, Holmes and Berbick. And the judges called them correctly. I think Young comes up quite often, but seriously, Young compromised the outcome himself with his behavior. He has only himself to blame, And if Lyle was about to make his big comeback, he should have "protected himself at all times" Which he did not do.

Jimmy Young gave The Greatest a boxing lesson. Smokin' Joe kicked Ali's ass.

[yancey]

Eddie Futch did a masterful job educating Kenny on just what to do. And Kudo's to Kenny for listening and giving it his best.

Neither man ever clearly got the better of the other.....and that says it all.

Everyone has a different opinion on those fights.

Elmer says Norton.. 3 Ali... 0

Many honestly think Ali won all 3. Don't ask me how they justify calling that first fight for Ali, but I've seen it right here.

Many think it's just as it is on the record books. Ali 2 Norton 1

My take.... is 1-1-1. With the last fight a draw. But not one of them was outlandish in it's outcome. Just close fights.

If Ali really fought with a broken jaw for most of the first fight, then he gets kudos once again for legendary toughness.
Something along the lines of getting up after Joe dropped him and him coming back and staying competitively engaged.

In my opinion, the only Losses that Ali had that were clear were Norton 1 Spinks 1, Holmes and Berbick. And the judges called them correctly. I think Young comes up quite often, but seriously, Young compromised the outcome himself with his behavior. He has only himself to blame, And if Lyle was about to make his big comeback, he should have "protected himself at all times" Which he did not do.

Jimmy Young gave The Greatest a boxing lesson. Smokin' Joe kicked Ali's ass.

Correct on both counts.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Norton handily won the first and third fights, the second was very close.

Ah....so finally...it's settled. I'll alert the media.

No need, that's common knowledge. Shavers was another highly debatable decision. He could have 10 losses easily.

[hhaehre]

It's Ali though buzz, anything goes. I have seen people argue Evangelista, the second Spinks fight, Shavers. Chuvalo II was even brought up in 2015. The Henry Cooper deal, don't forget the referee didn't count to 10 against Foreman. It has a life of it's own.

Is that the world's smallest violin I'm hearing? Your guy was awarded the decision in every close fight he was in and a couple not so close ones (Norton III and Young), but that's not enough for you is it? What's next, the Berbick fight a possible draw?

[HomicideHenry]

Norton had the perfect style against the Ali machine. Personally, I thought Norton won all three fights. Joe Louis's prophetic words came true, when he said it would take a man with a good jab and counter punching ability to defeat Ali. Norton outboxed Ali, period. Norton outsmarted Ali, period. And when talks of Ali-Norton IV were going around, Ali wanted none. The more educated will point out to would be historians/fans of the sport, that Ali told Norton to fight Bobick and that he would honor a fourth bout. Norton kayoed Bobick in one round. Ali, instead of honoring the contract, fought Leon Spinks instead. And when the WBC told Spinks to defend against Norton (the long standing number one contender) and Spinks opted out, Norton was given the title on general principle.

Much as I love Frazier, and applaud the FOTC in Madison Square Garden, Ken Norton had Ali's number. Make no mistake about it. Joe Frazier had more entertaining fights with Ali, but he came up short in two of them. Norton was robbed two out of three. And the story of how Ali fought the last ten rounds with Norton with a broken jaw in their first fight? Complete bullshit. Norton said he broke Ali's jaw in the tenth round, and I believe him. Was just another myth the Ali camp wanted to put out there to make Ali seem invincible, when that was far from the truth.

Ali's greatest strength and asset, in my view, was the ability to adapt in fights. If boxing wasn't working, he rope-a-doped. If the rope-a-dope wasn't working, he mixed it up. If mixing it up didn't work, Ali tried to get into someone's head. With Ken Norton, Ali couldn't psyche him out---- and he couldn't outbox him either. So Ali managed to do something that Sugar Ray Leonard would later adopt, and that was to throw flurries in the final few seconds of a round to give the impression that he was the stronger fighter. That tactic worked on the judges in the final Norton fight---- though anyone with a real brain can see Norton was in complete control throughout.

The only issue or problem, with Ken Norton's legacy (in my view) was he failed to ever face Joe Frazier and he simply wasn't any good against great punchers. If one is to judge Norton, it has to be on the Ali fights, the Holmes fight, and his bouts with Quarry. Everything else, isn't really that spectacular. Though I will say, win or lose, Norton was never in a boring fight. Even to the very end, when he was eeking out decisions over LeDoux and Cobb and getting bombed out by Cooney, Norton was a superstar.

[Ambling Alp II]

It's Ali though buzz, anything goes. I have seen people argue Evangelista, the second Spinks fight, Shavers. Chuvalo II was even brought up in 2015. The Henry Cooper deal, don't forget the referee didn't count to 10 against Foreman. It has a life of it's own.

Is that the world's smallest violin I'm hearing? Your guy was awarded the decision in every close fight he was in and a couple not so close ones (Norton III and Young), but that's not enough for you is it? What's next, the Berbick fight a possible draw?

Every close fight? Frazier I, Norton I, Spinks I, Berbick were at least as close as Evangleista, Spinks II, Shavers, Chuvalo II were.

He simply did not have that many close ones go his way. He won the Young fight legitimately. Young did next to nothing offensively. Norton II was close but he won it fairly. Norton III could have gone either way.

Why don't we do this with everybody? Pick another great fighter, and I will come up with some reason why some of his wins were not legit. The decision was bad, the referee should not have stopped it, the ref did really not count to 10, whatever.

We never do this with anyone else. Lets pick someone else and do it with him.

[BoxBuzz]

Norton had the perfect style against the Ali machine. Personally, I thought Norton won all three fights. Joe Louis's prophetic words came true, when he said it would take a man with a good jab and counter punching ability to defeat Ali. Norton outboxed Ali, period. Norton outsmarted Ali, period. And when talks of Ali-Norton IV were going around, Ali wanted none. The more educated will point out to would be historians/fans of the sport, that Ali told Norton to fight Bobick and that he would honor a fourth bout. Norton kayoed Bobick in one round. Ali, instead of honoring the contract, fought Leon Spinks instead. And when the WBC told Spinks to defend against Norton (the long standing number one contender) and Spinks opted out, Norton was given the title on general principle.

Much as I love Frazier, and applaud the FOTC in Madison Square Garden, Ken Norton had Ali's number. Make no mistake about it. Joe Frazier had more entertaining fights with Ali, but he came up short in two of them. Norton was robbed two out of three. And the story of how Ali fought the last ten rounds with Norton with a broken jaw in their first fight? Complete bullshit. Norton said he broke Ali's jaw in the tenth round, and I believe him. Was just another myth the Ali camp wanted to put out there to make Ali seem invincible, when that was far from the truth.

Ali's greatest strength and asset, in my view, was the ability to adapt in fights. If boxing wasn't working, he rope-a-doped. If the rope-a-dope wasn't working, he mixed it up. If mixing it up didn't work, Ali tried to get into someone's head. With Ken Norton, Ali couldn't psyche him out---- and he couldn't outbox him either. So Ali managed to do something that Sugar Ray Leonard would later adopt, and that was to throw flurries in the final few seconds of a round to give the impression that he was the stronger fighter. That tactic worked on the judges in the final Norton fight---- though anyone with a real brain can see Norton was in complete control throughout.

The only issue or problem, with Ken Norton's legacy (in my view) was he failed to ever face Joe Frazier and he simply wasn't any good against great punchers. If one is to judge Norton, it has to be on the Ali fights, the Holmes fight, and his bouts with Quarry. Everything else, isn't really that spectacular. Though I will say, win or lose, Norton was never in a boring fight. Even to the very end, when he was eeking out decisions over LeDoux and Cobb and getting bombed out by Cooney, Norton was a superstar.

HH.....honestly, you are just as reactionary as the "Ali rumpswab patrol" I suppose you would assign me in that group.

1. First of all it was the genius of Eddie Futch, and Norton's ability to "shut up and take note" . Eddie was the man here, and Frazier didn't listen quite as well as Kenny did. But Norton could be scripted, Joe could not. So that was team work. And Yep Joe Louis had it right as well. And these were not easy fights for Kenny, they were life and death battles. So Kenny didn't have a "sure plan" even with Eddie behind him...or he would have really won the last two going away. Which he clearly did not.

2. Why pick a side when it comes to the "broken jaw rumor".....? Not that the break is in question, but when it happened is. It is to Norton's advantage to claim it was late, it is to Ali's advantage to claim early. Only Ali really knows, (and he does know)...why would Norton even pretend to know? So really you simply choose not to believe Ali, who is the only person who can say for sure. I just don't know....you seem to know. How's that possible? lol

3. The last two were close fights, period. Not sure you bring any real gravitas to be able to change that. It didn't go the way you think it should have gone....the third one did not go the way I think it should have gone either. I saw it as a draw. But that happens in close fights. If it went the other way.....everyone here would be doing the same amount of squabbling just from different perspectives. By the way, I'm ok with judges going with the champion in the event of a draw. I'm thankful they don't assign the belt as vacant in the event of a draw, so the champ does get the advantage, and that suits me fine. I know that's not what everyone thinks...and I understand that.

4. The Young fight......Young gave it away, it is what it is, if he had not been seemingly attempting to save himself by tossing his head out of the ropes, maybe the judges would have interpreted things differently. I agree that was an ugly fight, and surely could have gone Young's way. In fact save his bizarre action I tend to think it would have.

I also think that the judges were NOT clueless in those fights. They simply judged, and that action is a subjective one.

Now in the case of the judge that gave the first Holyfield/Lewis Fight to Holyfield.... Or the ones that said that Lewis won the second fight....now that's some bad judging. but that's from my perspective only.

[BoxBuzz]

Eddie Futch did a masterful job educating Kenny on just what to do. And Kudo's to Kenny for listening and giving it his best.

Neither man ever clearly got the better of the other.....and that says it all.

Everyone has a different opinion on those fights.

Elmer says Norton.. 3 Ali... 0

Many honestly think Ali won all 3. Don't ask me how they justify calling that first fight for Ali, but I've seen it right here.

Many think it's just as it is on the record books. Ali 2 Norton 1

My take.... is 1-1-1. With the last fight a draw. But not one of them was outlandish in it's outcome. Just close fights.

If Ali really fought with a broken jaw for most of the first fight, then he gets kudos once again for legendary toughness.
Something along the lines of getting up after Joe dropped him and him coming back and staying competitively engaged.

In my opinion, the only Losses that Ali had that were clear were Norton 1 Spinks 1, Holmes and Berbick. And the judges called them correctly. I think Young comes up quite often, but seriously, Young compromised the outcome himself with his behavior. He has only himself to blame, And if Lyle was about to make his big comeback, he should have "protected himself at all times" Which he did not do.

The FOTC was not a clear Ali loss???

Just seein' if you were payin' attention. Of course it was.