Post Your Scorecards

[ElJefe]

Pacquiao vs Marquez

1st fight: 113-112 Pacquiao.
2nd fight: 113-114 Marquez.
3rd fight: 113-115 Marquez.

Last one was strange because I thought Marquez won much more clearly than my scorecard would suggest.

[Seamus]

Ben Villaflor vs Hyun Chi Kim

R1. 5-4 HCK
R2. 5-4 HCK
R3. 5-4 HCK
R4. 5-4 HCK
R5. 5-4 HCK
R6. 5-5
R7. 5-4 BV
R8. 5-5
R9. 5-1 BV (Kim down 3 times)
R10.5-4 HCK
R11.5-4 HCK
R12.5-4 HCK
R13.5-4 HCK
R14.5-4 HCK
R15.5-5

Hyun Chi Kim 70-65

Kim lost a SD to Ben Villaflor, but to me clearly appeared to be robbed in a strange and entertaining fight. The Korean built an early lead countering with combinations against his opponent who jabbed well but didn't follow up enough on his openings. Finally in the 9th, Villaflor dropped Kim with a series of bodyshots and a left to the head, but was unable to finish his man who went down twice more from little more than body contact. In the 10th, Kim got a rest when Villaflor's glove had to be taped and from then on returned to outboxing the Filipino. In the end Kim was extremely lucky to have survived the 9th round, but unlucky to have lost the decision.

[scartissue]

Alexis Arguello vs Jose Luis Ramirez

R1.10-10
R2.10-9 AA
R3.10-9 JLR
R4.10-10
R5.10-9 AA
R6.10-8 JLR (Arguello down from a left to the chin in a rd he was winning)
R7.10-10
R8.10-9 JLR
R9.10-10
R10.10-9 JLR

Jose Luis Ramirez 98-95

Outstanding performance from 21 yr old Ramirez against veteran Arguello. He counterpunched very effectively and also dug down deep anytime Arguello appeared to be taking control. I've seen alot worse, but yes it was a bad decision.

Seamus, thanks for bringing this one to my attention. I remembered the fight but didn't know it was out there. Great fight. Ramirez never fought a better fight. He was so very busy which countered Arguello's bombs throughout. I had it close enough where one couldn't gripe too much, but here we go. 10 point must system.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Arguello
Round 3: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 4: 10-9 Arguello
Round 5: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 6: 10-8 Ramirez (Ramirez scores a knockdown)
Round 7: 10-9 Arguello
Round 8: 10-10 Even
Round 9: 10-9 Arguello
Round 10: 10-9 Ramirez

Total: 96-95 Ramirez

We only really disagreed on the 5th round, which was pretty good, especially with every round fairly close. Excellent contest.

[scartissue]

With the passing of Howard Davis, I thought I'd look into one of his fights. Saw his 10 rounder with Meldrick Taylor when it happened and thought it was an excellent contest between two fighters going in opposite directions. The 30 year old Davis against the 19 year old wunderkind. Here we go, New Jersey rules on a rounds basis.

Round 1: Taylor
Round 2: Taylor
Round 3: Taylor
Round 4: Davis
Round 5: Taylor
Round 6: Davis
Round 7: Taylor
Round 8: Davis
Round 9: Even
Round 10: Taylor

Total 6-3-1 Taylor

I felt Taylor was just that much busier. I felt it was so close back when I saw it and felt the draw was good. And actually, I still do, because many of these rounds were very close and many of them I feel the fighters just nicked. Again, excellent contest.

[Seamus]

Just watched the Ernesto Marcel v Alexis Arguello fight, and it's a damn shame there isn't a better quality copy. The online version is missing a round and breaks up a couple times, but it was a great fight. I had it 134-130 for Marcel, with each fighter scoring a 10-8 rd without a knockdown. Arguello starts off so many rounds looking to be in control and looking to set up Marcel for the big right, but then the Panamanian suddenly explodes with a flurry of combination punches. I gave Marcel the 6th 10-8 for wobbling Arguello on the ropes with a left hook to the jaw while dominating the round. Arguello came right back the 7th and in the 9th had Marcel in alot trouble for which I gave him a 2 pt round as well. Then in the 11th I believe, Marcel seemed to have caught his second win and dominated the rest of the way with effective combinations to Arguello's head.

[Seamus]

Donald Curry vs Marlon Starling II

R1.10-9 MS
R2.10-9 DC
R3.10-9 DC
R4.10-9 MS
R5.10-9 MS
R6.10-9 DC
R7.10-9 DC
R8.10-10
R9.10-9 DC
R10.10-9 DC
R11.10-9 DC
R12.10-9 DC
R13.10-10
R14.10-9 DC
R15. 10-9 DC

Donald Curry 147-140

Quite possibly the best performance of Curry's career. He went to war with Marlon Starling on the inside and won decisively.

[elmersalsa]

Just watched the Ernesto Marcel v Alexis Arguello fight, and it's a damn shame there isn't a better quality copy. The online version is missing a round and breaks up a couple times, but it was a great fight. I had it 134-130 for Marcel, with each fighter scoring a 10-8 rd without a knockdown. Arguello starts off so many rounds looking to be in control and looking to set up Marcel for the big right, but then the Panamanian suddenly explodes with a flurry of combination punches. I gave Marcel the 6th 10-8 for wobbling Arguello on the ropes with a left hook to the jaw while dominating the round. Arguello came right back the 7th and in the 9th had Marcel in alot trouble for which I gave him a 2 pt round as well. Then in the 11th I believe, Marcel seemed to have caught his second win and dominated the rest of the way with effective combinations to Arguello's head.

I saw that fight and what I saw was that the great Alexis Arguello had Ernesto Marcel at one time in trouble with some terrific wicked shots. What held up Marcel? Maybe it was the Panamanian crowd that had him going, because I think he was out on his feet. He later came back in the later rounds and sucked it up like a good champion. It was Marcel last bout. And he retired undefeated champ. One of the most underrated title fights in featherweight history

[Seamus]

Roberto Duran vs Ernesto Marcel


R1.10-9 RD
R2.10-9 RD
R3.10-9 EM
R4.10-9 EM
R5. 10-10
R6.10-9 RD
R7.10-9 RD
R8.10-9 RD
R9.10-9 EM

Roberto Duran TKO 9 I had it 87-85 for Duran at the time. The three judges had it 87-85 86-85 for Duran and 85-85 Even.

Horrible stoppage by referee Isaac Herrera when Marcel looked tired but unhurt. Marcel had the better of the fight on the outside where he effectively counterpunched and was more accurate in the exchanges, but Duran was too strong and busy on the inside where much of the fight took place. Without the ridiculous stoppage this is probably a 97-94 win for Duran.

[Seamus]

I'd love to get a second opinion on this to assure myself I'm not seeing things, but I just scored the 1975 title bout between Miguel Canto and Betulio Gonzalez, and I had Gonzalez winning the 14th, the 9th even and the other 13 rds for Miguel Canto. This was a SD and I scored it 149-137 Canto ! . Tremendous performance from Canto, who looked like a Matador, backing away most of the fight and then catching Gonzalez coming in, scoring heavily with the jab, and hammering him with fast combinations to the body and outworking him on the inside. Gonzalez just wasn't busy enough and spent too much time looking for one big punch. If I get asked what I'd like to do tonight, I'm going to avoid telling the truth. I'd like to watch more of Miguel Canto.

[Seamus]

Got in another Canto fight

Miguel Canto vs Chan Hee Park

R1. 10-9 CHP
R2. 10-9 CHP
R3. 10-9 CHP
R4. 10-9 CHP
R5. 10-10
R6.10-9 CHP
R7. !0-9 CHP
R8.10-9 CHP
R9.10-9 MC
R10.10-9 MC
R11.10-9 CHP
R12.10-9 CHP
R13.10-9 CHP
R14. 10-9 MC
R15. 10-9 MC

Chan Hee Park 146-140

Canto boxed well, but Park just through too many fast and furious attacks at him throughout the bout. Unbelievably Canto won the decision by 9-3-1 pts.

[scartissue]

Seamus, Canto and Park only fought twice. The first fight was won by Park and the second was a draw. Are you thinking of Oguma maybe?

[King Carlos]

I'd love to get a second opinion on this to assure myself I'm not seeing things, but I just scored the 1975 title bout between Miguel Canto and Betulio Gonzalez, and I had Gonzalez winning the 14th, the 9th even and the other 13 rds for Miguel Canto. This was a SD and I scored it 149-137 Canto ! . Tremendous performance from Canto, who looked like a Matador, backing away most of the fight and then catching Gonzalez coming in, scoring heavily with the jab, and hammering him with fast combinations to the body and outworking him on the inside. Gonzalez just wasn't busy enough and spent too much time looking for one big punch. If I get asked what I'd like to do tonight, I'm going to avoid telling the truth. I'd like to watch more of Miguel Canto.

You aren't seeing things. Canto had a couple of head scratching split decisions on his record. Refs didn't take to his style, presumably.

[King Carlos]

And yeah, you're confused on Park. He rightfully won the first fight with a brilliant display over an aging Canto.

[Seamus]

YES, I made a mistake, for some reason I thought Canto won the first fight. I had Park winning by 6.

I love these weight classes but there have been some bizarre decisions, in the Canto v Gonzalez bout though, I thought Canto won by a wide margin.

[Counter-puncher]

Canto looked like a magician against Gonzalez

[scartissue]

Another thing to note in that era is the way the judges notoriously would vote along party lines. Just looking at Shoji Oguma's record against Canto, Betulio Gonzalez, Alfonso Lopez, Kim-Sung Jun and Park Chan-Hee, the one thing that jumps out is the Korean voted for the Korean, the Mexican voted for the Mexican, etc. There was always a split decision which left it almost always to the one neutral official to come up with a decision. Don't know why they didn't just go 3 neutrals. But I guess that would make too much sense.

[elmersalsa]

Azumah Nelson vs Juan LaPorte. This fight was made in Sydney, Australia of all places.
Round 1: Nelson
Round 2: LaPorte
Round 3: Nelson
Round 4: LaPorte
Round 5: EVEN
Round 6: Nelson
Round 7: Nelson
Round 8: LaPorte
Round 9: LaPorte
Round 10: Nelson
Round 11: Nelson
Round 12: LaPorte

115-114 in favor of The Professor, Azumah Nelson. He outboxed LaPorte by sticking and moving and using the jab very well. He was also quick. Nelson was a complete boxer. Sometimes LaPorte had Nelson on the ropes, just like Jeff Fenech did a year later. I think Fenech watched this fight and saw that LaPorte gave him the blueprint to beat Nelson. It's not hard not to envision that. The fight was in Australia where Fenech is from.

[elmersalsa]

Azumah Nelson vs Calvin Grove.
Round 1: Nelson (10-8)
Round 2: Grove (10-9)
Round 3: Grove (10-9)
Round 4: Grove (10-9)
Round 5: Grove (10-9)
Round 6: Nelson (10-9)
Round 7: Nelson (10-9)
Round 8: Nelson (10-9)
Round 9: Nelson (10-9)
Round 10: EVEN
Round 11: EVEN
Round 12: EVEN

116-114 in favor of Nelson. Is the first fight that I have seen that the last 3 rounds of a title bout were even in my view. As soon that Nelson used his quick jab to offset Grove, he started dominating from round 6 on. He also dropped Grove with a left hook in the first round. But, Grove came back, winning rounds 2 to 5 by outboxing Nelson and moving side to side. It was a good fight.

[Seamus]

Kuniaki Shibata vs Vicente Saldivar

R1.10-9 KS
R2.10-9 VS
R3.10-10
R4.10-9 KS
R5.10-10
R6.10-9 KS
R7.10-9 VS
R8.10-9 KS
R9.10-9 VS
R10.10-9 KS
R11.10-9 KS
R12.10-9 KS

Kuniaki Shibata 117-113 at the time of the TKO (Saldivar didn't answer the bell for the 13th rd)

Fairly close fight through the first 9 rds, but Shibata begins scoring heavily with headshots from the 10 th round on. Quite a performance from Shibata, who had no impressive names on his resume at this time and who never looked hurt in the bout, despite trading with Saldivar several times.

[Seamus]

Bruno Arcari vs Pedro Adigue Jr

R1.5-5
R2.5-4 BA
R3.5-4 PA
R4.5-4 BA
R5.5-4 BA
R6.5-4 BA
R7.5-4 PA
R8.5-4 BA
R9.5-5
R10.5-4 PA
R11.5-4 PA
R12.5-5
R13.5-5
R14.5-4 BA
R15.5-4 BA

Bruno Arcari 71-68

Arcari won the title in this bout from Filipino Pedro Adigue Jr, who was coming off a 1st round non title KO win over 12-0 Koichi Wajima. Adigue brawled, mauled and landed numerous hard shots to the Arcari's body and appeared to be taking control thru 11 rounds, but Arcari dug deep and pulled out the last 2 rds to win by 3 on my scorecard. The actual scoring however seemed pretty shocking with the referee, the only scorer having it 74-66 for Arcari.

[King Carlos]

Saldivar was done by then.

[witherspoon]

Herol Graham v Mike McCallum

R1. 9-10 MM
Graham starts very aggressively, but seems extremely tense. McCallum counters calmly, and although he takes some heavy blows, he seems to land a fraction more than Graham, and his punches are qicker, cleaner and more accurate straight blows.
Graham establishes his range in the second minute, and he stays out of range while landing punches. But there is no fluidity to his movement and by the end of the round he's eating McCallums jab regularly.

R2. 10-9 HG (19-19)
Graham starts aggressively again, but looks like a different fighter now. Relaxed and loose, his lateral movement is more controlled and he controls the distance gracefully. He lands 3 and 4 punch combos before gliding away.
McCallum starts to time him again in the second half of the round, and probably has the best punch of the round, straight right that lands flush on Grahams jaw. He is starting to work the body, but Graham is far busier this round.

R3. 9-10 MM (28-29)
Both fighters set a hectic pace in the first half, pretty much standing and trading. Graham is first to score heavily and McCallum is forced to take a step back for the first time. But he hurts Graham several times as they continue to brawl, and he lands some heavy shots to the body. Both guys seem tired by the last minute of the round and Graham is heavy on his legs again. Clear round for McCallum.

R4. 9-10 MM (37-39)
Graham tries to keep the fight at long range, and he is landing, but McCallum is using his reach masterfully, his jab is in Herols face every time Herol throws, restricting him to single punches.
Graham seems to become just a fraction of a second more hesitant and McCallum takes charge immediately, builds 1-2 combinations off the jab and doesn't give Graham time or room to manoeuvre. He is landing heavy punches to head and body as the round ends and I get the impression that Graham might just be a little frustrated.

R5. 10-8 HG (47-47)
McCallum seems to slip in his own corner immediately but the ref gives him an 8 count.
Graham looked like a man determined to get down to business anyway, and this seems to energise him.
He takes this round clearly.
There is real energy in Graham's movement now, he changes direction effortlessly and lands lightning quick punches in the split second that McCallum needs to adjust.
The straight right that McCallum was countering effortlessly in the previous round is landing freely now.
McCallum doesn't seem discouraged at all, he keeps the pressure on Graham and his jab is always a threat.

R6. 10-10 (57-57)
The fight takes a different shape, both guys stand toe to toe for pretty much the entire round. McCallum is the busier fighter, the exchanges gradually build up in intensity and by the end of the round Graham looks the stronger man, and McCallum perceptibly slowed.

R7. 10-9 HG (67-66)
Graham gets back to his tactics of R5, keeping the fight at distance and landing quick punches while keeping McCallum thinking with lateral movement.
It's a dangerous game though. McCallum is never more than half a step behind Graham and hurts Graham with a straight right at the end of the round.

R8. 9-9 (76-75)
Graham's round. McCallum is visibly slowing, and Graham is able to score more freely, he is able to make better angles now that McCallum isn't so quick to close the gap.
Graham loses a point for shoving McCallum to the canvas, fairly I think. It's not the first time and he has had 2 warnings already.

R9. 9-10 MM (85-85)
Really entertaining round. Graham starts positively, and McCallum doesn't seem to have recovered his energy. But he does manage to pull Graham into a dogfight and the last 2 minutes of the round are toe to toe and McCallum does more damage.

R10. 10-9 HG (95-94)
Both guys are very tired. McCallum is forcing the pace but Graham fights well on the retreat. He outscores McCallum just enough, I think, to offset McCallum's late rally. Very close round.

R11. 9-10 MM (104-104)
Even exchanges in the first minute, pretty much punch for punch, but McCallum finds another gear while Graham is visibly struggling with the pace now. McCallum is walking him down now, throwing and landing constsntly.

R12. 9-10 MM (113-114)
Both guys look exhausted after 1 minute, McCallum again is the one pressing, but doesn't dominate as he did in the previous round. He does land the more effective punches though. Graham fights back in the last minute, but I think that McCallum was just slightly busier overall. Close round.

114-113 McCallum

I have never scored a fight more uncertainly than I did this one. So many rounds could have gone either way.
But I really enjoyed this, probably both past their best but still, both guys showed what makes them great.
They literally fought each other to the point of exhaustion.

[scartissue]

Witherspoon, this is an earlier post on how Seamus and I scored this bout. As you can see by our scores and yours, very close indeed.

“

Seamus wrote:Mike McCallum vs Herol Graham

R1.10-9 HG
R2.10-10
R3.10-9 MM
R4.10-9 HG
R5.10-9 HG
R6.10-9 HG
R7.10-9 HG
R8.9-9 1 pt taken from Graham
R9.10-9 MM
R10.10-9 MM
R11.10-10
R12.10-9 MM

Herol Graham 115-114

Almost a lackluster performance from the Body Snatcher, who didn't really look himself till the late rounds, even then I thought Graham just did gut out a hard won decision on my card.




Seamus, finally got around to giving this a gander. Very difficult to score but here ya go.

Round 1: 10-9 Graham
Round 2: 10-9 Graham
Round 3: 10-9 McCallum
Round 4: 10-9 Graham
Round 5: 10-8 Graham - The ref scored that as a knockdown. I don't agree, I think it was a slip but it was scored as such.
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 McCallum
Round 8: 10-9 McCallum - I scored it even but one point deducted from Graham makes it 10-9.
Round 9: 10-9 McCallum
Round 10: 10-9 McCallum
Round 11: 10-9 McCallum
Round 12: 10-9 McCallum

115-113 McCallum - A tough fight to score, but it was the latter rounds that won it for McCallum on my card. They were both tiring, especially in the 11th and 12th, but McCallum's punches just had that much more pop to them.
Top

[witherspoon]

I would not argue with either score, so many rounds in this fight had me agonising over how to score and I'm usually very decisive when scoring.

I would use Seamus' vocabulary exactly, for the opposite fighter. I saw McCallum doing the gutting out here. He gritted his teeth through the middle of the fight where Graham seemed to be really in the groove, stuck to his gameplan, kept applying pressure and when both fighters were dead tired it was McCallum who pushed harder. Which, to my memory, is a completely different fight to what Mike usually fought. Am I wrong to say that? I have not watched McCallum for a very long time.

I would love to score this again after a week or two and see what I get.

[Seamus]

Paul Pender vs Sugar Ray Robinson I

R1.10-9 R
R2.10-9 R
R3.10-9 R
R4.10-9 R
R5.10-9 P
R6.10-9 R
R7.10-9 P
R8.10-10
R9.10-9 R
R10.10-10
R11.10-9 R
R12.10-9 P
R13.10-9 R
R14.10-9 R
R15.10-9 R

Sugar Ray Robinson 147-140

Robinson just the busier man with his hands at least. He caught Pender with the left to the body coming in, throughout the fight, jabbed effectively and just did a better job of pressing the action. Pender to his credit held up remarkably well, and was still bouncing on his toes in the final round despite so many lefts to the body, but his biggest mistake was not using his jab more. This was a pretty bad decision.