Wladimir slight favourite to beat Fury in rematch

[Tuan_Jim]

Toney did not stop Holyfield with a body shot! That's not what happened at all.

[Bricks]

People forget wlad hurt fury badly in the 12th with the one decent right hander he threw with enthusiasm all night.

But the commentators already had their trousers down and were wwanking off to fury as world champ at that moment so it wasnt mentioned.

If wlad breaks the habits of a decade and comes out looking to be dominant from the first bell and lets his hands go i think he can crush fury

[Boxerbeetle]

Toney did not stop Holyfield with a body shot! That's not what happened at all.

Didn't he? How did that fight end then? I'm sure I remember a body shot ending it.

Edit: The NY Times seems to agree
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/05/sport ... toney.html

[Tuan_Jim]

Toney did not stop Holyfield with a body shot! That's not what happened at all.

Didn't he? How did that fight end then? I'm sure I remember a body shot ending it.

Edit: The NY Times seems to agree
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/05/sport ... toney.html

We could probably check YouTube, but I'm too lazy to do so. I can see in my mind Toney hitting him up and down and Holyfield tumbling to the floor. He got up but the towel was thrown in. 'Toney stopped Holyfield with a body shot' struck me as not quite resembling the details.

[keithmoonhangover]

Toney did not stop Holyfield with a body shot! That's not what happened at all.

Didn't he? How did that fight end then? I'm sure I remember a body shot ending it.

Edit: The NY Times seems to agree
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/05/sport ... toney.html

We could probably check YouTube, but I'm too lazy to do so. I can see in my mind Toney hitting him up and down and Holyfield tumbling to the floor. He got up but the towel was thrown in. 'Toney stopped Holyfield with a body shot' struck me as not quite resembling the details.

It was a body shot, simple as that. Too much ego to admit your wrong. You really are a pretentious knob jockey.

[palooka]

Toney did not stop Holyfield with a body shot! That's not what happened at all.

That was the first bout that came to my mind, the other was Tyson v Spinks though that's not what happened either.

[handsofstone]

I never even knew Toney fought Holyfield

[Tuan_Jim]

Toney did not stop Holyfield with a body shot! That's not what happened at all.

That was the first bout that came to my mind, the other was Tyson v Spinks though that's not what happened either.

The first knockdown was from a beastly body shot. Second show-closing knockdown came with a right hand square in the mush.

[palooka]

I never even knew Toney fought Holyfield

It was a brilliant performance by Toney, you must watch it

[keithmoonhangover]

Toney did not stop Holyfield with a body shot! That's not what happened at all.

That was the first bout that came to my mind, the other was Tyson v Spinks though that's not what happened either.

The first knockdown was from a beastly body shot. Second show-closing knockdown came with a right hand square in the mush.

Incorrect. Holyfield gets hit with a left hook to the body and almost takes another body shot on the way down, he gets up and the fight is stopped. The right hand to the mush is all in your head.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I never even knew Toney fought Holyfield

It was a brilliant performance by Toney, you must watch it

Yeah a great performance, Toney at his brilliant best.

Nobody ever did a number on Holyfield like Toney, James outboxed and slowly took him to pieces, even taking away Evander's best weapon, the left hook, with his own. I never saw Holyfield as totally dominated by anyone.

[Tuan_Jim]

That was the first bout that came to my mind, the other was Tyson v Spinks though that's not what happened either.

The first knockdown was from a beastly body shot. Second show-closing knockdown came with a right hand square in the mush.

Incorrect. Holyfield gets hit with a left hook to the body and almost takes another body shot on the way down, he gets up and the fight is stopped. The right hand to the mush is all in your head.

We're talking about Tyson/Spinks you dunce.

[Tuan_Jim]

I never even knew Toney fought Holyfield

It was a brilliant performance by Toney, you must watch it

Yeah a great performance, Toney at his brilliant best.

Nobody ever did a number on Holyfield like Toney, James outboxed and slowly took him to pieces, even taking away Evander's best weapon, the left hook, with his own. I never saw Holyfield as totally dominated by anyone.

Certainly puts the perennial bigger is better debate in perspective.

[jamesmcdonnell]

That was the first bout that came to my mind, the other was Tyson v Spinks though that's not what happened either.

The first knockdown was from a beastly body shot. Second show-closing knockdown came with a right hand square in the mush.

Incorrect. Holyfield gets hit with a left hook to the body and almost takes another body shot on the way down, he gets up and the fight is stopped. The right hand to the mush is all in your head.

Actually, just watched it, it was a right hook to the body, followed by a glancing left hook to the body that didn't really land.

Neither punch was significant really, it was more an accumulation, Holyfield was exhausted by that point after the beating he had taken.

[Boxerbeetle]

So I was right all along. Hooray.

[keithmoonhangover]

The first knockdown was from a beastly body shot. Second show-closing knockdown came with a right hand square in the mush.

Incorrect. Holyfield gets hit with a left hook to the body and almost takes another body shot on the way down, he gets up and the fight is stopped. The right hand to the mush is all in your head.

We're talking about Tyson/Spinks you dunce.

The only dunce here is the guy who doesn't know Toney-Holyfield ended with a body shot.

[Tuan_Jim]

The first knockdown was from a beastly body shot. Second show-closing knockdown came with a right hand square in the mush.

Incorrect. Holyfield gets hit with a left hook to the body and almost takes another body shot on the way down, he gets up and the fight is stopped. The right hand to the mush is all in your head.

Actually, just watched it, it was a right hook to the body, followed by a glancing left hook to the body that didn't really land.

Neither punch was significant really, it was more an accumulation, Holyfield was exhausted by that point after the beating he had taken.

That's as I remember it. Holyfield was by that point beat up, and the last couple of punches were surplus.

[keithmoonhangover]

Incorrect. Holyfield gets hit with a left hook to the body and almost takes another body shot on the way down, he gets up and the fight is stopped. The right hand to the mush is all in your head.

Actually, just watched it, it was a right hook to the body, followed by a glancing left hook to the body that didn't really land.

Neither punch was significant really, it was more an accumulation, Holyfield was exhausted by that point after the beating he had taken.

That's as I remember it. Holyfield was by that point beat up, and the last couple of punches were surplus.

Whatever Trevor.

[big lennox]

I never even knew Toney fought Holyfield

It was a brilliant performance by Toney, you must watch it

Yeah a great performance, Toney at his brilliant best.

Nobody ever did a number on Holyfield like Toney, James outboxed and slowly took him to pieces, even taking away Evander's best weapon, the left hook, with his own. I never saw Holyfield as totally dominated by anyone.

No, but it is all about context, though. Whilst Toney was brilliant that night, it must be remembered that Holyfield was 41 years old at the time (Toney was 35), and had had a long and grueling career against the likes of Bowe, Mercer, Tyson, Lewis, Moorer, Foreman ect, and was way past his best. He went into the Toney fight having been comprehensive beaten by feather fisted Chris Byrd. When James Toney was 41, he got beat up by a chubby Fres Oquendo (and controversially got the decision)

[Tuan_Jim]

And having finally bothered to watch the Toney/Holyfield finish, it was, as James correctly pointed out, an accumulation of shots on a beat up man that culminated with a body shot when Holyfield was already done, so to say "Toney stopped Holyfield with a body shot" would be as inaccurate to say "Lewis stopped Bruno with an overhand right" simply because that was the last punch that landed. There had been significant blows landed beforehand. Now Hatton/Castillo - that's an example of a man stopping an opponent with a body shot.

[Boxerbeetle]

And having finally bothered to watch the Toney/Holyfield finish, it was, as James correctly pointed out, an accumulation of shots on a beat up man that culminated with a body shot when Holyfield was already done, so to say "Toney stopped Holyfield with a body shot" would be as inaccurate to say "Lewis stopped Bruno with an overhand right" simply because that was the last punch that landed. There had been significant blows landed beforehand. Now Hatton/Castillo - that's an example of a man stopping an opponent with a body shot.

To be honest, I wasn't thinking that deeply about it, it was just the first heavyweight fight that came to mind which clearly ended with a body shot.

[Tuan_Jim]

And having finally bothered to watch the Toney/Holyfield finish, it was, as James correctly pointed out, an accumulation of shots on a beat up man that culminated with a body shot when Holyfield was already done, so to say "Toney stopped Holyfield with a body shot" would be as inaccurate to say "Lewis stopped Bruno with an overhand right" simply because that was the last punch that landed. There had been significant blows landed beforehand. Now Hatton/Castillo - that's an example of a man stopping an opponent with a body shot.

To be honest, I wasn't thinking that deeply about it, it was just the first heavyweight fight that came to mind which clearly ended with a body shot.

I might have drifted slightly into pedantry. Didn't Fury stop Rogan with a body shot?

[HomicideHenry]

A few points:

1) Klitschko will be another year older

2) Klitschko has made a certain way of fighting his comfort zone for so long, its difficult to see him change it up at this stage

3) Fury will only (surely) improve and have more confidence than he did the first time

4) If Klitschko decides to fight more aggressively, he's taking a gamble that he will gas out and leave himself open to counters; even as a master tactician, Klitschko wears down after so many rounds

5) Fury will more than likely be looking to put an exclaimation point on this fight, and will be more aggressive, to show the first fight was no fluke---- so I see Fury's work rate not only get higher, but his all-around movement increase, making him more difficult to hit

I think the game plan, will be to box the same as before, and following six rounds the pace will increase and Fury will be looking for a stoppage. Klitschko, older and worn down with chasing Fury, trying to be more aggressive, will be worse for wear at this point and Fury will ultimately drop him somewhere between 8-10 rounds. A stoppage TKO will come not long after.

Very good post. The only thing I disagreee with is Fury's confidence. I think he can't be more confident in the rematch only because he was as confident as ever in the first fight

By confidence, I'm somewhat referring to the first fight where Tyson told Peter inbetween rounds that he didn't feel comfortable in trying certain tactics that Peter wanted him to do. I think, because of the unaminous (almost one sided) decision win, that gives Tyson the confidence, maybe, to do more in the second contest.