And you would be saying the same if vitali won on cuts?J wrote:so what if vitali was ahead ont he cards after 6 rounds?
vitali wasnt in a fit state to coninue and the cut was caused by a punch = lewis victory end of debate.
As you seem to have such an incredibly poor recall of information, I will reiterate it for you once again.lirva33 wrote:Clearly you can't argue coherently.jamesmcdonnell wrote:Utter bollocks.
What has being wrong about Williams got to do with it? Lennox Lewis and Williams are hardly comparable talents. I also thought that Williams would fight a more intelligent fight than he did rather than standing there absobing everything that Vitali threw at him like some sort of violent weeble. Fine, I was wrong, it doesn't bother me.
Vitali is a better fighter than Williams, but he is insignificant as a heavyweight champion, christ, fat man Sanders had him backpedalling like a unicylist on a cliff edge.
You are the one with the agenda mate, not me, you take every opportunity to come on here and try and stir shit up. I don't know why you bother coming on the british section, you're cock eyed view of the world isn't really appreciated, and you are considered a running joke by most of us here.
Facts are facts, Lewis cut vitali to shreds, which is a totally legitimate form of stoppage, whether that displeases you is neither here nor there. Vitali lost fair and square, and Lewis retired BECAUSE HE WAS 39 fornicating YEARS OLD.
Do you understand the concept of ageing? In case you don't let me put it in a nutshell for you. 39 year old fighters tend not to be as good as they were a few years ago, and often get beaten by men they would have handled with ease in their primes. This is why many fighters employ what is known as RETIREMENT, a perfectly legal entitlement whereby they voluntarily end their careers rather than fight on way past their peaks and sustain senseless neurological damage.
Perhaps you were managing Vitali at the time and guiding his career, perhaps this would explain him yabbering on like a bitter old crone endlessly about how Lewis had to face him and how he was a coward for not coming out of his well earned retirement.
Fact is, Lewis was a better champion than Vitali, and beat him when they fought, end of.
It's obvious you have some sort of anti-lewis agenda, perhaps you're struggling with you fear and inferiority complex with regard to the more cultured, sophisticated and articulate english, or perhaps you made a bet with someone that Lewis would get battered by Tyson and then didn't pay up and were then considered a laughing stock by your peers, though of course you wouldn't do such a thing.
If you dislike british fighters so much, why don't you just piss off back to the morons forum where you can have fun conversing with your fellow retards?
The FACTS of the matter are this.
Vitali was ahead on the scorecards
Vitali hurt Lewis numerous times
Vitali was cut by a lucky jab
Lewis ran from the sport rather than face Vitali
Lewis promised a rematch and then held the division hostage for 1.5 years.
These are "facts".
Vitali gave Lewis one of the toughest fights he has ever had and I believe (along with MANY others) that he would have BEATEN Lewis and that Lewis was LUCKY to get that victory.
The whole fight left a bad taste in the mouth. A promised rematch would have ended the debate but forever people are going to wonder if Vitali had Lewis number. As I said (a point you skipped over), if it was the other way around, people on this forum woiuld be all over Vitali "Why didn't he give Lewis a rematch!!" etc.
Lewis knew that he would have a hard time against Vitali and knew he would probably los the fight. Especially after Vitali killed Johnson. So he ran rather than face him. Plain and simple. He was thinking about fighting Vitali (hence holding the bests hostage for years) but after Vitali vs Johnson, he promptly retired.
HE DIDN'T WANT TO FIGHT THAT MAN AGAIN.
I wonder why?
OK, he was 39 years old. Fair enough. The point is, he was in a see saw battle in his previous fight and a lot of people think he was lucky. It DID leave a bad taste in the mouth regardless of what you say. He retired because he didn't know if he could beat Vitali. Why fight him in the first place? Wouldn't it have been better to just retire then because he was getting old as you say. What if Vitali had of beaten him. By your logic, Lewis shouldn't have fought a rematch because he was too old. Is that another way of saying that you agree that Lewis was afraid of Vitali KOing him in a rematch? Also why hold the belts hostage for almost 2 years?jamesmcdonnell wrote: As you seem to have such an incredibly poor recall of information, I will reiterate it for you once again.
LEWIS WAS 39 YEARS OLD!! For christ's sake, which part of that don't you understand?.
Would that have been the same night he got flattened by Rahman, or are you talking about the night he got flattened by McCall? Or are you talking about the night he got outboxed by Bruno for a few rounds? Or are you talking about the night he got punched around the ring by Briggs? Or are you talking about the night he fought a shot tyson who was beaten by WILLIAMS afterwards? Or are you talking about the night he was scared to commit when fighting holyfield the first time? etcjamesmcdonnell wrote: Vitali 'killing' Johnson is hardly an amazing achievement, Johnson game in looking like a Sumo wrestler and fought like a man on a kamikaze mission, totally throwing caution to the wind and swinging for the rafters. Johnson was a fat pile of shit, just like Sanders. Big fornicating deal. Lewis would have demolished Johnson and Sanders on the same night.?.
Fact - The cut Vitali got happened was a freak accident. When has that ever happened since?jamesmcdonnell wrote: Oh, and you need to decipher the difference between FACTS and OPINIONS.
The only fact in your list is that Lewis was behind on the scorecards, the rest are your biased opinions..?.
in the ring after the fight. I have this on tape.jamesmcdonnell wrote: Where did Lewis 'promise' a rematch. I seem to recall that he said he was going to consider his future. As there was no rematch clause in any case he was in no obligation to do so. ..?.
I also think he would have retired because he knew he couldn't beat Vitali in the rematch. That's why he retired then, he got lucky with the cuts.jamesmcdonnell wrote: If it was the other way around, I think Lewis may well have retired anyway, but that's just conjecture...?.
I don't care about their respective careers. I care about the fight. vitali lost, ON CUTS, in a fight he was WINNING.jamesmcdonnell wrote: Fact is, Vitali lost on cuts, legitimately, and then cried like the last little pig all the way home, to have a big fat sulk.
Get over it, it's history, Lewis is an all-time great, Vitali is an also ran.
vitali has only failed ot stop 1 opponent in every fight he has won. sanders hits quite hard and he didn't deck vitali. lewis was in trouble in the second round and almost knocked to the canvas.jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, for all Vitali's supposed destructive power, Lewis walked through his shots with impugnity in the 3rd, 4th and 5th, shrugging them off and wading in with big shots of his own. At the time I thought Lewis was churlish for being so dismissive in the post fight interview, but having viewed the fight many times since, I can understand why. Lewis didn't seem to rate Vitali as much of a danger at all once he got warmed to the task he just whaled away on him.
Rahman and Mccall hit way harder than Vitali.
Part of the reason that Lewis looked so bad was his balance was not there, when he was ducking under shots and slipping them he kept looking like he was going to fall over, but I never saw Vitali land anything that looked like decking him. Vitali is an arm puncher, he needs many shots to deck someone. Look how many he landed on Sanders before putting him away.
I wish we'd seen him fight Rahman, I'd have loved to have seen what would have happened if Rahman planted one on his big fat lips.
I have watched it numerous times. He was in trouble and lucky that vitali didn't land another shot. vitali hit him good a few times and lewis felt every punch. "he hurt me a few times, he's a big guy" - Lewis in the post fight interview.jamesmcdonnell wrote:Lewis was momentarily stunned nothing more, he was nowhere near going down. Watch the tape again without your overriding bias.
i never said he was on the verge of being knocked out, i said he was on the verge of being knocked to the canvas. he was hurt by vitalis punches in a lot of rounds. these are the same punches that knocked out 35 other men. and lewis hasnt exactly got the best chin in the world, so he was feeling those. otherwise, if vitali was such a non puncher as you suggest, lewis would have taken the rematch and given him a hiding.jamesmcdonnell wrote:well thats not really surprising is it, being hit by someone who weighs 250 odd pounds is going to do more than tickle isn't it?
However, that is not the same as suggesting that Lewis was on the verge of being knocked out, because he wasn't.
I dont think he wouldve been KOed, but it looked like so because he was very slow and plodding that entire fight. It wasn't the best fight for either guy, but it definitely gives us some drama to unfold. If he got KDed, it wouldve been because his feet and timing were out of check, not because Vitali put him down by force.jamesmcdonnell wrote:well thats not really surprising is it, being hit by someone who weighs 250 odd pounds is going to do more than tickle isn't it?
However, that is not the same as suggesting that Lewis was on the verge of being knocked out, because he wasn't.
I can tell you that there is no British bias towards Lewis.lirva33 wrote:This is 90% irrelevant to the point I was making.jamesmcdonnell wrote:Not as bad a taste as your pathetic cowardice did when you wimped out of your bet.....now to pull apart your frankly ridiculous statement you pussy.lirva33 wrote: nickd, get off my ass.
Rahman is a perennial loser. his performances again barrett/ruiz/maskaev etc would not exactly strike fear into vitali.
vitali pummelled lewis and lewis got lucky with a cuts win and then wimped out od the rematch after promising one, leaving a very bad taste in the mouth
Vitali whined and cried like a bitch about losing on cuts, trying to make out he had been robbed, despite the fact the left side of his face was hanging off and he was getting clobbered in the last 2 rounds of the fight. Sure, Vitali did better than expected, because Lewis was ring rusty and took about 2 rounds to get his jab working.
I've watched the fight about 10 times on tape now, and once you get over the shock of seeing Lewis look so sloppy in the first 2 1/2 rounds it's clear that Vitali wasn't at all dominating the fight after the 3rd. Once Lewis started ramming home his jab, Vitali was on the back foot and started getting clouted with some almighty shots.
Vitali acted like a wanker after losing to Lewis, trying to put him on the spot and demand a rematch.
Lewis had EARNED the right to finish his career as he chose, and he chose to retire after giving it some serious thought, that's his right. He had already established himself as a dominant chap
Vitali on the other hand faced nothing but pathetic scraps in his reign as 'champ.' He won the right to call himself champion by beating whale-boy Kirk Johnson, and then defended against vastly overrated 'Colonel' Sanders who had more breasts than a bargain bucket. Then he took target practice on human punching bag Williams, who fought with all the guile and poise of a Wildebeest on roller skates.
Throughout his tenuous reign as 'champ' Vitali spent more time whinging about Lewis not coming out of retirement to face him than looking for serious challenges to cement his own legacy, then had a massive hissy fit and huffed off into retirement when Rahman was awarded the belt after Vitali kept injuring himself.
Vitali will be remembered as nothing more than a minor footnote in boxing history a guy whose best performance was losing on cuts to an ageing, out of shape and undermotivated Lennox Lewis, who took him on at a few weeks notice instead of a much easier opponent in Kirk Johnson. How many other fighters would have given Vitali a shot under those circumstances?
Tell me Lirva, who the smeg did Vitali ever beat to earn the right to call himself the main man in the division.
Which is, Lewis ran from the sport rather than face Vitali. Which is 100% true. "Lewis was beating Vitali etc" What was your scorecard? Because everyone I know had Vitali winning 4-2. He hurt Lewis numerous times and it was simply the luck of the draw that he got cut by a lucky jab and lewis didn't. Then lewis promises a rematch and waits over a year before finally retiring and allowing the division to move on. He held the belts hostage while he took the easy way out.
Vitali gave him a beating in most rounds. Hitting him repeatedly. Lewis was being worn down, he fell on his stool at the end of the 6th. The shots were taking effect, as they do with Vitali opponents.
The fact is, Lewis was in a topsy turvy battle that A LOT of people thought he was lucky to win. The record books will say it was a cuts win for lewis, but the tape of the fight will elave a bad taste in the mouth and will always say that Vitali was very unlucky.
If lewis got the cuts and Vitali refused to fight him, it would be a different kettle of fish on this board.
Jamesmcdonnell "Vitali should fight lewis again because that fight left a bad taste in the mouth"
So really, this is a british board and people are biased. I remember reading tumultuous postss about williams beating klitschko. I replied "Klitschko KO1" and was laughed off the board by YOU and others.
Were you laughing after 30 seconds of the fight james?
