Tyson Fury

[palooka]

Coordination and agility are necessary requirements for most (all) sports; a boxer needs to be able to move forward, backwards, laterally and diagonally in a composed unit, they often need to move their feet and weave their body, move the position of their heads etc. If they don't move with coordination the punch power is lacking and they will find themselves out of position to punch or defend leaving them easy to time and easy to counter. I'd hazard a guess that most of the boxers seen as 'great' had an abundance of coordination and agility and that it was this that set them apart from the also runs.

[palooka]

anyway whoever made the wider point, James i think, is correct. the skills of boxing are exponentially more difficult at 6'3 or above than they are at 5'10 or whatever, for exactly the reasons James gave. I know this, as I am 6'3 and spend half my life wishing i had been born a 5'5 Mexican... (sigh)

Strange comment. I'd see it the other way round. Taking raw ability out of it and just going off repetition you could do more with a 6'3" frame than a 5'5" frame, I'd have thought.

you'd have thought wrong.

see james' earlier post, longer limbs, inertia, more problems with balance and coordination, the taller you are the more ducking under punches becomes a non-option, etc etc etc

just one sort of example, in terms of hand-eye coordination, which is the easier punch to time correctly- one delivered from 32" away from the (moving) target, or one delivered from 24" away from the (moving) target?

Surely it's relative though? The bigger men are punching a slower moving target.

[magwitch]

anyway whoever made the wider point, James i think, is correct. the skills of boxing are exponentially more difficult at 6'3 or above than they are at 5'10 or whatever, for exactly the reasons James gave. I know this, as I am 6'3 and spend half my life wishing i had been born a 5'5 Mexican... (sigh)

Strange comment. I'd see it the other way round. Taking raw ability out of it and just going off repetition you could do more with a 6'3" frame than a 5'5" frame, I'd have thought.

you'd have thought wrong.

see james' earlier post, longer limbs, inertia, more problems with balance and coordination, the taller you are the more ducking under punches becomes a non-option, etc etc etc

just one sort of example, in terms of hand-eye coordination, which is the easier punch to time correctly- one delivered from 32" away from the (moving) target, or one delivered from 24" away from the (moving) target?

I disagree. A man with a long reach can strike a target as fast as a man with shorter reach. Especially if it involves snapping out a jab or a lead hook. Also his opponent might be proportionally slower, heavier of foot, so any perceived disadvantage isn't real, as generally short guys and tall guys are kept apart except in relatively rare instances where you'll get a tall gangly guy like that Panamanian who mullered Molitor, or that other Panamanian that was pummelled by the gangly Tommy Hearns.

[magwitch]

Coordination and agility are necessary requirements for most (all) sports; a boxer needs to be able to move forward, backwards, laterally and diagonally in a composed unit, they often need to move their feet and weave their body, move the position of their heads etc. If they don't move with coordination the punch power is lacking and they will find themselves out of position to punch or defend leaving them easy to time and easy to counter. I'd hazard a guess that most of the boxers seen as 'great' had an abundance of coordination and agility and that it was this that set them apart from the also runs.

If you ignore the bit about punching you could be describing the 'rangy' Anton Du Bec!

[palooka]

To me, watching a well schooled and coordinated boxer is a joy - they just do everything, just enough and make a difficult and frightening sport seem effortless.

Watching an uncoordinated boxer is often underwhelming and disappointing, they make difficult moves look impossible and miss the target more often than hitting.

[lefty]

Christophe Lemaitre is another one that also does the 200 metres, etc, which does include running in to bends and he's got a long limbed body type.

I have yet to discover the correlation between being able to run around a bend and being able to box. in fact I have yet to see a correlation between being able to run around a bend and 'agility'. or frankly any other fine motor skills.

I was just adding to the discussion amigo.

[lefty]

Well, I've not seen any evidence of Bolt's agility. Speed yes, but as said elsewhere, speed in a straight line, aside from running a bend in a 200 meters, which doesn't require agility.

I'd say that Ronaldo is pretty agile considering his body type. I know he's not "tall tall" but he's got a naturally gangly body type which he has put muscle on over time but he's still pretty long and rangy looking but can he can turn and pivot at great speed.

Christophe Lemaitre is another one that also does the 200 metres, etc, which does include running in to bends and he's got a long limbed body type.

Ronaldo is under 6 foot 2 - that's just not relevant to our discussion. He is not gangly at all.

As discussed before, running a 200 meter bend doesn't require much agility, you're just running around a gentle curve, not at all comparable with boxing.

I agree in regards to his height but he certainly was gangly in his earlier playing years.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I'd say that Ronaldo is pretty agile considering his body type. I know he's not "tall tall" but he's got a naturally gangly body type which he has put muscle on over time but he's still pretty long and rangy looking but can he can turn and pivot at great speed.

Christophe Lemaitre is another one that also does the 200 metres, etc, which does include running in to bends and he's got a long limbed body type.

Ronaldo is under 6 foot 2 - that's just not relevant to our discussion. He is not gangly at all.

As discussed before, running a 200 meter bend doesn't require much agility, you're just running around a gentle curve, not at all comparable with boxing.

I agree in regards to his height but he certainly was gangly in his earlier playing years.

Not compared to the likes of Fury and Wilder he's not.

[lefty]

Ronaldo is under 6 foot 2 - that's just not relevant to our discussion. He is not gangly at all.

As discussed before, running a 200 meter bend doesn't require much agility, you're just running around a gentle curve, not at all comparable with boxing.

I agree in regards to his height but he certainly was gangly in his earlier playing years.

Not compared to the likes of Fury and Wilder he's not.

Well obviously they're a lot taller which is the crux of your argument. Zidane though was another guy in football terms who for a good dribbler of the ball was taller than the norm. You look at most of the best dribblers, the likes of Best, Maradona, Messi now, etc, they were/are all relative midgets.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I agree in regards to his height but he certainly was gangly in his earlier playing years.

Not compared to the likes of Fury and Wilder he's not.

Well obviously they're a lot taller which is the crux of your argument. Zidane though was another guy in football terms who for a good dribbler of the ball was taller than the norm. You look at most of the best dribblers, the likes of Best, Maradona, Messi now, etc, they were/are all relative midgets.

Zidane was pretty solidly built, tall yes, but not lanky. He was also more a trick specialist, than a dribbler per se, a creative midfielder. One hell of a footballer.

I do hope we're not holding crouch up as the apogee of nimble-footedness?

Anyway, I fear we're straying too far here, the skills required in boxing, the relative agility and constant changes of direction required in boxing, which takes place in a very small arena, are far in excess of what is required in most other non combat sports. Tennis is probably comparable due to the constant changes of direction, or squash, badminton, - I'd say Squash is probably the closest for a non combat sport.

[lefty]

Not compared to the likes of Fury and Wilder he's not.

Well obviously they're a lot taller which is the crux of your argument. Zidane though was another guy in football terms who for a good dribbler of the ball was taller than the norm. You look at most of the best dribblers, the likes of Best, Maradona, Messi now, etc, they were/are all relative midgets.

Zidane was pretty solidly built, tall yes, but not lanky. He was also more a trick specialist, than a dribbler per se, a creative midfielder. One hell of a footballer.

I do hope we're not holding crouch up as the apogee of nimble-footedness?

Anyway, I fear we're straying too far here, the skills required in boxing, the relative agility and constant changes of direction required in boxing, which takes place in a very small arena, are far in excess of what is required in most other non combat sports. Tennis is probably comparable due to the constant changes of direction, or squash, badminton, - I'd say Squash is probably the closest for a non combat sport.

Crouch was like a ballerina in his prime.

[BoxBuzz]

He should have been arrested for what he did to Charlie Z.

Pretty sure that if that had happened in the UK, he'd have been in deep poo.

In the U.S. someone has to press charges...Maybe Charlie figured he had it comin'. Because he could have followed up.

[coneye]

He should have been arrested for what he did to Charlie Z.

Pretty sure that if that had happened in the UK, he'd have been in deep poo.

In the U.S. someone has to press charges...Maybe Charlie figured he had it comin'. Because he could have followed up.

No , Charlies a retard , he actually thought he won

[dookus]

Pretty sure that if that had happened in the UK, he'd have been in deep poo.

In the U.S. someone has to press charges...Maybe Charlie figured he had it comin'. Because he could have followed up.

No , Charlies a retard , he actually thought he won

Which is precisely why Wilder shouldn't have done what he did. You cannot go around braying retards.

[BoxBuzz]

Not sure Wilder, would, or even needs, to understand the diagnosis. What difference does it make if the person who means you harm is crazy or not? Protect yourself at all times. Charlies condition is not easy to read in real time. He just comes off as a total asshole. And that's not a disease that has much of a support group around it.

If you don't fend off the crazies, they will have their way with you. So, you still need to do what YOU need to do, and let the social support system and or medical support system do it's job.

[mickey1975]

Wether he understands his condition or not, he knows he is himself a world class huge heavyweight boxer. It was a liberty, at best.

[Stevieb8006]

In the U.S. someone has to press charges...Maybe Charlie figured he had it comin'. Because he could have followed up.

No , Charlies a retard , he actually thought he won

Which is precisely why Wilder shouldn't have done what he did. You cannot go around braying retards.

Good use of the word braying there mate.

I'd like to have heard wilder say I brayed the Kunt.....

[coneye]

Not sure Wilder, would, or even needs, to understand the diagnosis. What difference does it make if the person who means you harm is crazy or not? Protect yourself at all times. Charlies condition is not easy to read in real time. He just comes off as a total asshole. And that's not a disease that has much of a support group around it.

If you don't fend off the crazies, they will have their way with you. So, you still need to do what YOU need to do, and let the social support system and or medical support system do it's job.

Wilder , did'nt bump into him in the street ,, he did'nt come to the door and find the dipshit trying to break in his house ... He sought him out , tracked him down, arranged to see him in the gym , gloved up while dipshit charlie gloved up , and then bashed him .

And if you need prove that Charlies a mental case , just go on u tube even now he's claiming he's 110 -0 or some such ridiculous numbers , including Wilder ... Thing is though Wilder hit him, was'nt holding back, and did'nt ko him , does'nt really say much for wilders left hook does it .

[BoxBuzz]

Not sure Wilder, would, or even needs, to understand the diagnosis. What difference does it make if the person who means you harm is crazy or not? Protect yourself at all times. Charlies condition is not easy to read in real time. He just comes off as a total asshole. And that's not a disease that has much of a support group around it.

If you don't fend off the crazies, they will have their way with you. So, you still need to do what YOU need to do, and let the social support system and or medical support system do it's job.

Wilder , did'nt bump into him in the street ,, he did'nt come to the door and find the dipshit trying to break in his house ... He sought him out , tracked him down, arranged to see him in the gym , gloved up while dipshit charlie gloved up , and then bashed him .

And if you need prove that Charlies a mental case , just go on u tube even now he's claiming he's 110 -0 or some such ridiculous numbers , including Wilder ... Thing is though Wilder hit him, was'nt holding back, and did'nt ko him , does'nt really say much for wilders left hook does it .

That is interesting...Wilder set up the interview so to speak? That changes things in terms of litigious aspects because Wilder himself is a deadly weapon. However...understanding mental diagnosis is very difficult...and I'm sure that Wilder probably had no clue as to how to assess this guy. And if someone threatens your family...seems that's a mitigating circumstance...to say the least.

But I would agree...if Wilder did some research, and really felt this guy was compromised, and brought him in to be cruel....I would swap my opinion over to yours. But INTENT is very important in a legal matter such as this. As is what you know, and when you know it. Wilder may have just wanted to confront an asshole....one who was stupid enough to invite more trouble than he could handle.......and these are two very different animals, in terms of how the legal system would treat this event.

[coneye]

Legal , smegal , who cares about the legalaties , facts are he tracked him down and asked or at least encouraged a nut job to come to the gym and fight him ,, it was taking a liberty with a mental retard , who has no comprehension of the shit he can land himself in ,,Charlie is not all there he showed up thinking he can win , even now he claims he won ,, when the whole of u tube seen him run away through the door , ,

Tell you what if Tyson Fury done that to a idiot , the world would be up in arms

[BoxBuzz]

Legal , smegal , who cares about the legalaties , facts are he tracked him down and asked or at least encouraged a nut job to come to the gym and fight him ,, it was taking a liberty with a mental retard , who has no comprehension of the poo he can land himself in ,,Charlie is not all there he showed up thinking he can win , even now he claims he won ,, when the whole of u tube seen him run away through the door , ,

Tell you what if Tyson Fury done that to a idiot , the world would be up in arms

Only a Dr can make that call. And no one on the street can make that call. So if someone appears to be an asshole, and you want to ascribe a diagnosis to it...(whether it seems obvious or not) his "assholeness" can/will be considered, and Wilder would likely walk. You can't be provocative to that extent and get away with it in front of an average jury. We workin' stiffs will look at that and simply say, "he had it comin".

The social system has a responsibility to sort this out for us, reach out and help a guy like this....and/or keep him on a short leash.

If you are Wilder...you have a slightly elevated expectation to operate safely, sort of like the guy with the licensed gun can draw his weapon to equalize a situation, but is on shakier ground if he uses it once the situation has stabilized.

If Ztrain calls you out, you are welcome to treat him as if he is any other citizen. You will not get "demerits" for acting sensibly, or with "typical" response to someone just because they are sick. Sick is not an excuse for poor behavior in public. Except in the eyes of those who will judge him on social media.

Hope your'e not missing my point. I'm not missin' yours.

[coneye]

no i'm not missing your point ,, the legalities , and wether or not a judge and jury would condemm Wilder are really quite imaterial to me , Facts are Wilder took a liberty with a guy who is half his size and obviously not all there ..

[BoxBuzz]

well....that's an assumptive statement. It may be "obvious" to you and me, but I'm being serious when I say, that not everyone is blessed with that sort of perception or radar. So I don't agree....some will see his first and purely an asshole.

[Bricks]

.Im a doctor so it is my diagnosis that Tyson Fury is suffering from acute Arseholia or Arseholerectusshreklookaliketus. It is a condition where profound outbursts at all and sundry with no ryhme and reason break out.

I was tysons biggest fan as a fighter and as a christian....Than he wins the title and ever since he has behaved in a shocking BULLYING, sexist, ignorant,stupid fashion with the lennox thing on top.than i find out his lowlife father a violent bully who gouged out a mans eye in front of his kids and the vile picture of this lowlife scum of a family is complete

[SNG]

Not sure Wilder, would, or even needs, to understand the diagnosis. What difference does it make if the person who means you harm is crazy or not? Protect yourself at all times. Charlies condition is not easy to read in real time. He just comes off as a total asshole. And that's not a disease that has much of a support group around it.

If you don't fend off the crazies, they will have their way with you. So, you still need to do what YOU need to do, and let the social support system and or medical support system do it's job.

Sorry, I've read this several times and I can only infer that you are saying what Wilder did was okay, correct me if I'm wrong of course.

Deontay Wilder is the WBC heavyweight champion of the world, the difference is he could have defended himself by ignoring the little pudendum rather than inviting him to his gym and fighting him, even if Zelenoff wasn't mentally ill should a heavy weight champ be pulling blokes who have something negative to say about them off the street to fight?